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Sarmatia1871

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Finellach said:
CK system is also seriously flawed. The cultures are supposed to represent culture but in CK timeframe we can hardly speak about cultures but rather about (proto-)nations in a modern sense. For that reason we have ridiculous situations where Scandianvians are divided among modern ethnic lines while South and East Slavs are all under one tag. The main problem in this is that CK doesn't follows it's own established parametars. I am quite sure there were much greater differences in naming f.e. between Croats and Bulgarians than it was between Irish and Scots, yet the first are presented in one tag and the others as two separate tags while it should be the other way around.

I think the hand-waving and lack of definition with the Slavs has as much to do with avoiding potential flame-wars and controversies than anything else - the borders and even the existence clear of ethnic divisions between Bulgarians, Serbs, Croats and Bosnians in this period is still a hotly contested issue and often spills into modern politics, in a way that the boundaries between the Scandinavian peoples doesn't.

Putting them into a generic "South Slavic" culture avoids a million "WHY IS PROVINCE #1235 BULGARIAN WHEN IT SHOULD BE SERBIAN?" threads, replete with 19th century ethno-linguistic-racial maps and associated axe-grinding.
 

Johan

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Sarmatia1871 said:
Putting them into a generic "South Slavic" culture avoids a million "WHY IS PROVINCE #1235 BULGARIAN WHEN IT SHOULD BE SERBIAN?" threads, replete with 19th century ethno-linguistic-racial maps and associated axe-grinding.

bingo.
 

Brownbeard

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Actually it serves another purpose as well, a historic one. Since same leads to faster spread of technology the end effect is that South Slavic provinces end up the most technologicaly advanced than anything north and west thus serving as a testimony of intelectual and technological superiority of Balkans over rest of Europe.

Other effect is that Croatia is one of the best countries to play in CK. Two thumbs up! ;)
 

ZmajOgnjeniVuk

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Sarmatia1871 said:
Putting them into a generic "South Slavic" culture avoids a million "WHY IS PROVINCE #1235 BULGARIAN WHEN IT SHOULD BE SERBIAN?" threads, replete with 19th century ethno-linguistic-racial maps and associated axe-grinding.
Why do you people always use Serbs as a bad example? ;) Most of us is nice, you know. :)
But, I must agree that having South Slavic is better in keeping everyone happy than divided cultures could.
 
Last edited:

Brian Bóruma

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I agree with Finellach that the culture system isn't perfect. Like he said, Scandinavia doesn't need three Nordic cultures. However, the Balkans being the eternal powder keg that they are, it's best to just leave them alone as South Slavs.

He also touched on the differences between Irish and Scottish.

In the early game, there were none. They all spoke Middle Irish. "Scottish" culture in it's present context is probably the most useless tag in the game. No offense intended to any Scots.
 

Dakk

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Brian Bóruma said:
"Scottish" culture in it's present context is probably the most useless tag in the game. No offense intended to any Scots.
Hehe, I suspect a Ayeshteni arrival shortly.. fuming. :D
 

Justinian_A

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Wow, this looks awesome, thanks Johan! CK has always been my favorite Paradox game, even with its flaws...this is like an early birthday present!
 

Garbon

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Brian Bóruma said:
In the early game, there were none. They all spoke Middle Irish. "Scottish" culture in it's present context is probably the most useless tag in the game. No offense intended to any Scots.

Ck doesn't have dynamic cultures though...
 

Veldmaarschalk

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Johan said:

So I presume the new cultural (Breton, Serb, Croatian, Bulgarian etc.)set-up from the Improvement Pack won't be in DV ?

In the early game, there were none. They all spoke Middle Irish. "Scottish" culture in it's present context is probably the most useless tag in the game. No offense intended to any Scots.

Dutch is a good second then :D
 

tioperete

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Veldmaarschalk said:
So I presume the new cultural (Breton, Serb, Croatian, Bulgarian etc.)set-up from the Improvement Pack won't be in DV ?

Dutch is a good second then :D

Breton culture should be present because it's totally different to cosmopolitan french.
 

unmerged(27913)

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Sarmatia1871 said:
Putting them into a generic "South Slavic" culture avoids a million "WHY IS PROVINCE #1235 BULGARIAN WHEN IT SHOULD BE SERBIAN?" threads, replete with 19th century ethno-linguistic-racial maps and associated axe-grinding.

And makes the game completely ridiculous for anyone knowing anything about the historical circumstances. As I have said it before lumping all South Slavs or completely removing Slovaks, Albanians, Vlachs (Romanians), Bretons, etc. from the game just because there are some issues with it is not the right way to deal with the situation. In fact the South Slavic culture is a strange mix of both South Slavic and Vlach (Romanian) culture which makes it even more ridiculous. There should be at least three different culture tags for this region: Slavonic (Illyric) for western South Slavic language group (Slovenian, Croatian, Serbian...), Bulgarian for eastern group (Bulgars, Macedonian Slavs...) and Vlach for eastern romanic populations (Romanians, Aromanians and Megleno-Romanians). Plus additional tag for Albanians.

In fact it is even doubtful wheter Slovenian, Croatian and Serbian should be lumped togher as well due to rather large difference in naming. I am talking about generic christian names like Michael, Stephen and so on) but that one could pass nevertheless.

Paradox should have at least enable more free tags to be used for modders and people who know a bit more about the matter and the like to make their own mods. For example I would also appreciate a free Arabic looking culture for Moorish populace in Northern Africa and Muslim Spain.
 

Vasious

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Historical and Political correctness aside
Variety is the spice of life & since the culture is really just cosmetic gameplay wise the more the merrier.

It is fun to watch the waxing and waning of various cultural groups in the game, and the "going native" of branches of the family.
Like for example Poland conquoring the Tribe in Romania only to have the Grandson of the King go Native and eventually inherit the Crown of Poland

Many Tags add to the depth
 

Brian Bóruma

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Garbon said:
Ck doesn't have dynamic cultures though...
Nor need them.

"Gaelic" in all of Scotland in 1066.
"Gaelic" in most of Scotland in 1187, "Scottish" [...or English] in the South.
"Gaelic" in the highlands in 1337, "Scottish" [...or English] in most of Scotland.
 

unmerged(2456)

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Raczynski said:
No, because in that time and era you were usually naming your childrens afters fathers, grandfathers, etc. This names become traditional with times. For Capets it was Charles, Louis, Philip etc, for Piasts it was Boleslav, Casimir, Vlodislav, etc.
Actually there was a very specific protocal that was used for all living children, generally down to like 15 or so, for each gender. So you'd have to have say 16 living boys to actually just pick a name.
johny_d'ark said:
Managing vassal loyalty in a big realm with lots of vassals is cumbersome...
-snip-
And do you think it was really that easy?

You want vassals not to revolt when your ruler dies, then take invidisual care with them, like any good ruler...

or use dukes. i don't think CK even has room for 100 duchies on the map, and if it does, managing that large a realm should not be a simple click or 2.
Hallsten said:
...but will you add blank culture-tags (and religion-tags) if one wants to mod the vanilla setup?
It would be nice if we didn't have portaits linked to culture...but without a new variable i can't see that happening...and then we would have to have a kind of portraits for mixed-bloods.

Still it would be nice to have some more variation between either arab/north afrianc darker skins and european light skins even if they are still tied to culture.
 
Last edited:

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Brian Bóruma said:
Nor need them.

"Gaelic" in all of Scotland in 1066.
"Gaelic" in most of Scotland in 1187, "Scottish" [...or English] in the South.
"Gaelic" in the highlands in 1337, "Scottish" [...or English] in most of Scotland.
In 1066 the area between the Forth and the Tweed was a no-man's land. Lothian was effectively North Northumberland, populated by people of Anglo-Saxon descent, while Cumbria stretched to the other side and is believed to have been populated by peoples of Britonnic race (Welsh rather than Irish or Scottish). Vikings had also made their presense felt in the lowlands.

Very mixed bunch the lowland Scots.
 

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Brian Bóruma said:
Nor need them.

"Gaelic" in all of Scotland in 1066.
"Gaelic" in most of Scotland in 1187, "Scottish" [...or English] in the South.
"Gaelic" in the highlands in 1337, "Scottish" [...or English] in most of Scotland.

I would have thought it would be more accurate to have Welsh and Saxon in the old kingdoms of Strathclyde and Northumbria, respectively, in 1066.