Deus Vult - A Megathread (Read OP Before Posting)

[TheAtreides84]

What's funny is that if they just changed the phrase in-game to any other inspirational wording (It is the will of God, Christ is King, God is with us, Ave Maria), nobody would have noticed it. But no, they needed to "emphatically" communicate us how woke and liberal they are. And then obviously people get mad.

 

[Palfouri]

whilst brushing off the far more serious matter of the appropriation of an 11th Century expression to justify horrific crimes..

If you're going to chastise people about not recognizing the apparent seriousness of including historical content that's been appropriated by hate groups there's a hell of a lot of other material in CK you should be just as outraged about. "Deus vult" is probably on the low end of shit commonly associated with terror groups in this game.

 

[Prince Ire]

I'm proud of the history of my Church and if you've given in to guilt culture media then that's your problem. The crusaders were wars of defense against several hundred years of Islamic expansion and aggression.

I don't necessarily take that positive a view of the Crusades, but for good or ill, they are part of the Catholic religious heritage. Accepting its appropriation by the alt-right --which we would be doing by agreeing with Paradox's banning of phrases like Deus Vult due to their use by alt-right terrorists--is unacceptable. Especially since the Crusades were certainly not wars of extermination.

 

[FleetingRain]

Posting it here :
https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/20...is-happening-heres-ten-things-we-know-so-far/

6. There’s no “Deus Vult”.

In the years since CK2’s release, “Deus Vult” – an eleventh century crusader battlecry – has become a vile meme beloved of racists on the internet. I asked how Paradox’s community team felt about this, and was told emphatically that the words will not appear in Crusader Kings 3. That’s refreshing, but in a game set during a time of conflicts fetishised by modern fascists, it’s the tip of the iceberg. I’ll be writing more about how Paradox are handling the political sensitivities of making a game about the crusades, and how they’re handling the representation of non-European cultures, in the weeks to come.


Update – Henrik Fåhraeus offered this comment: “I feel like this issue has been miscommunicated thus far. We have not specifically considered which terms are used in the game apart from making sense in the historical context. The team will decide how any text fits or does not fit into CK3 in a way that feels appropriate.”

I think this should end the controversy, i guess someone will get spanked at RPS (i like the "miscommunicated" part) Maybe Paradox will consider this too now?

I'll only believe in miscommunication if we get some official word from Paradox in how RPS fucked up that bit of the interview. Until then, it's backpedalling at best.

 

[Severvus_septim]

I think this should end the controversy, i guess someone will get spanked at RPS (i like the "miscommunicated" part) Maybe Paradox will consider this too now?

There still are too many variants, and controversy really will end only if there will be word from devs, that ingame texts will not came against historical accuracy just to pat some SJW idiots... (sorry, but, I`m Russian, and from here all that tolerance make nothing but facepalm, so I will name things as it is)

 

[Orlunu]

Well, the question remains which of these two statements is correct, as clearly both aren't. Did the journo lie (always a likely-looking option), or did the game devs try and backpeddle and soft ball (also far from unheard of)?

When we have an explicit dev statement that they will not be adopting such a political position with the game, that is when I will reconsider my position.

 

[Giob]

"Update – Henrik Fåhraeus offered this comment: “I feel like this issue has been miscommunicated thus far. We have not specifically considered which terms are used in the game apart from making sense in the historical context. The team will decide how any text fits or does not fit into CK3 in a way that feels appropriate.”

While I'm a bit more relieved that they seem to be taking a step back, this is still a pathetic show. They are the personification of the bisection method, ping ponging from one extreme to the other until they find a sweet middle spot where they can minimize the woketrage and maximize the profits. I do really hope though that it is just a screw up on RPS' part in transcribing the interview.

 

[Doomdark]

There has been some miscommunication regarding this, and the RPS article has now been updated.

 

[Difficulty]

If Paradox weren't spineless Swedes then they'd take a leaf out of Warhorse Studio's book and tell game journalists (who almost always have a political bias as proved by gamergate years ago) where they can stick it.

Standing up to journalists these days is a mark of honour, it boosts hype and sales because guess what;
We want brutality and accuracy, not a whimpering whitewash of history.

 

[noblehunter]

What's funny is that if they just changed the phrase in-game to any other inspirational wording, nobody would have noticed it. But no, they needed to "emphatically" communicate us how woke and liberal they are. And then obviously people get mad.

Someone would have noticed the moment they saw the Crusade pop-up. And the tempest would have raged in the tea cup. As this thread demonstrates, there are people who are very vocal about pushing a particular agenda. Even if it was removed for its dubious provenance people would still claim it’s a nefarious plot.

 

[HottestRod]

Here is a link to the updated article: https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/20...is-happening-heres-ten-things-we-know-so-far/

 

[breathmints]

I don't know if Paradox was aware, but there's an option in their free to play game right now called "Expel the Jewry".

Considering their stance on something as inconsequential as a latin battlecry, they might want to look into that.

 

[TheAtreides84]

Someone would have noticed the moment they saw the Crusade pop-up. And the tempest would have raged in the tea cup. As this thread demonstrates, there are people who are very vocal about pushing a particular agenda. Even if it was removed for its dubious provenance people would still claim it’s a nefarious plot.

Well, obviously if they changed it for "puppies and rainbows" some would have noticed. But any variation on the same concept? Nah, nobody would have cared.

 

[aono]

And that's what happens when word policing takes place.

But word policing is literally inevitable. It's done every time you're trying to write anything.

However, I do think it would be reasonable if Paradox changed it to a more historically accurate war cry, such as Deus vult omnes homines salvos fieri, or 'God wants all people to be saved', which would also not intersect with far-right rhetoric.

I'm sorry (unrelated) which sources do you have about this cite used as warcry?.. I never heard about it.

that was used it that period just because nowdays tolerance politics is somehow against that thing

*sigh*
Again. NOT IT WASN'T. In that period were used another forms of the same message. And we had (and still has) exactly ZERO info about how this would be realised. From cutting crusades at all and making games about rainbows and pony, to using English translation or historical form.
I saw here hypersensitivity indeed, but not from Paradox or even RPS side. Without any info beyond one sentence from... well, who here think RPS is quite reliable source?

But no, they needed to "emphatically" communicate us how woke and liberal they are. And then obviously people get mad.

Where the hell THEY needed to communicate us? We don't know what exactly journalist asked. We don't know what was he answered (emphatically).
And now we get a message that journalist "misunderstood".

Well, obviously if they changed it for "puppies and rainbows" some would have noticed. But any variation on the same concept? Nah, nobody would have cared.

We're "not cared" for, like, 30 pages already.

 

[Giob]

Here is a link to the updated article: https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/20...is-happening-heres-ten-things-we-know-so-far/

They are still showing in big bold letters the words "There's no 'Deus Vult'", so you may want to have them reconsider the whole paragraph to avoid keep giving the wrong idea to viewers and fans.

 

[Sarog]

How is it possible that this was simultaneously a miscommunication but also "emphatic"?

 

[aono]

They are still showing in big bold letters the words "There's no 'Deus Vult'", so you may want to have them reconsider the whole paragraph to avoid keep giving the wrong idea to viewers and fans.

Actually, I'm going to RPS and ask it there.

 

[Marox]

I'm proud of the history of my Church and if you've given in to guilt culture media then that's your problem. The crusaders were wars of defense against several hundred years of Islamic expansion and aggression.

Literally an alt-right talking point that's straight up false. The Muslim conquest of the area was already centuries old by the time Pope Urban II was born and the defense argument doesn't hold up on the Baltic Crusade or the Hussite wars.

 

[TheAtreides84]

We're "not cared" for, like, 30 pages already.

Honestly tell me. Do you think people would have started this kind of fuss if they discovered while playing that the popup said "Christ is King", without any explanation and without an online journal dressing it as a SJW decision?

 

[Giob]

Literally an alt-right talking point

Jesus you guys can only speak in buzzwords