Detailed reactions to Vae Victus

[Fookison]

I happen to be one of those players that has pressed pause on my EU3 IN games and has totally consumed myself with VV since it came out. I am really enjoying the changes from the vanilla game. I originally stopped playing EU Rome after I installed it and played the first game as I found it to be very boring and there was not alot happening between battles. I was hoping for a more in depth game of diplomacy and micromanagement, not just battle after battle. Well, VV has provided that and more. I am going to go on a limb and say that I enjoy the changes to this game almost as much as the changes to EU3 when I installed In Nominee. Both expansions brought the games to where I knew Paradox was capable of tailoring it to. My favorite part now is the interesting manipulation of the various characters aka. CK. Now, if we could only get an expansion that would include the Alexander era, I would be over the top!! Finally, I like the pace of the game and some of the unexpected results that occur when the alternate decisions are made. (sometimes I do that just to see the outcome and deal with the consequences) OK! back to the game.........

 

[Von Uber]

It seems quite positive - is it worth purchasing (given it is only £10)?

 

[Nikolai]

Absolutely. I won't play vanilla Rome again ever.

 

[Tai-Pan]

It seems quite positive - is it worth purchasing (given it is only £10)?

Skip lunch, get VV. You can be hungry for a day.

 

[Fookison]

Best gaming investment since In Nominee, for sure!!!

 

[Star_Wolf]

- Change the behvior of nations. Mecdonia had an intrist in the east, not the north all the way to poland. Carthage had an intrist in Hispania the the mediterenian, not Egypt. define a guide line for a country to strive for. it's really annoying racing Mecadonia, to block it from colonising all the way to poland. what bug's me the most is that people complined about that issue all the way from vanila up until 1.3. and now even in VV it hasn't been looked into.

- Diploannaxtion(!)

- The peace resulotions are pathtic, some time's i have an intrist in weakining a kingdom, not conquer it. some time's i have a desire to counter my weight to stop the war the Selucids are engaging agaisnt smaller kings. meaning i wish to preserve some balance of power to favor my intrists. give me an option(diplomatic one and in peace resulotion) to force a nation to end wars with a 3rd party. this is something really importent which governs the Roman era. why can't it be implemnted in a patch i understand, but in the new addon it's something we had to get.


- look into the AI morale regain. it's bugged. the AI regain it's morale alot faster which prevents me from winning fast even agaisnt smaller kingdoms with no chance agaisnt me. after i crushed their army, they still win or inflict heavy loses to me because they regain morale alot faster then me.


- Rework the battle system. iam not sure what you have done but battles now are tougher. i had loads of frustration and head knocking on my wall out of shire anger. how could a pathtic 12 chorots armies can crush my 40 chorot even though i have supirior numbers,martial skill,dice etc... when it happens once you take it. when it happens in every war and bringing a huge empire like Rome on a brink of losing to a 1 minor it's actully annoying.


- The man power is just depleting to fast. and that's even without assaulting dircatly on towns. just sit like a good boy and wait until the siege is over.

- again fix the manpower. in it's current state it's just frustration waiting years and years for it to regain after only a small engagment or waves of barbs. it's just a waste of limited years in the game which i could use to actully play.

- Minors like judea are still unplayble and are DoW right on start. please sort this out! some of us do want to lead a minor.

 

[The Valkyrier]

First of all I want to say that VV makes Rome a really great game, easily comparable with EU3. Not just as rich but it has loads of potential.

I think giving more decisions and goals to all nations would be a good idea. When I played as Magna Graecia I got the "conquer roma" goal, and after that it was completely random. I know that there is extremely little historical plausability that the greek colonies in Italy would actually destroy Rome, so it's understandable that they didn't get many more goals than that but still, the game is about making history, not repeating it. The decisions part is very underdeveloped. There could be tons of them avalible, and also some nation specific ones like in EU3.

I think generally making the AI "less random" in their behavior is the most important task at hand, because at core this has become a really great game.

 

[SirGrotius]

- Change the behvior of nations. Mecdonia had an intrist in the east, not the north all the way to poland. Carthage had an intrist in Hispania the the mediterenian, not Egypt. define a guide line for a country to strive for. it's really annoying racing Mecadonia, to block it from colonising all the way to poland. what bug's me the most is that people complined about that issue all the way from vanila up until 1.3. and now even in VV it hasn't been looked into.

- Diploannaxtion(!)

- The peace resulotions are pathtic, some time's i have an intrist in weakining a kingdom, not conquer it. some time's i have a desire to counter my weight to stop the war the Selucids are engaging agaisnt smaller kings. meaning i wish to preserve some balance of power to favor my intrists. give me an option(diplomatic one and in peace resulotion) to force a nation to end wars with a 3rd party. this is something really importent which governs the Roman era. why can't it be implemnted in a patch i understand, but in the new addon it's something we had to get.


- look into the AI morale regain. it's bugged. the AI regain it's morale alot faster which prevents me from winning fast even agaisnt smaller kingdoms with no chance agaisnt me. after i crushed their army, they still win or inflict heavy loses to me because they regain morale alot faster then me.


- Rework the battle system. iam not sure what you have done but battles now are tougher. i had loads of frustration and head knocking on my wall out of shire anger. how could a pathtic 12 chorots armies can crush my 40 chorot even though i have supirior numbers,martial skill,dice etc... when it happens once you take it. when it happens in every war and bringing a huge empire like Rome on a brink of losing to a 1 minor it's actully annoying.


- The man power is just depleting to fast. and that's even without assaulting dircatly on towns. just sit like a good boy and wait until the siege is over.

- again fix the manpower. in it's current state it's just frustration waiting years and years for it to regain after only a small engagment or waves of barbs. it's just a waste of limited years in the game which i could use to actully play.

- Minors like judea are still unplayble and are DoW right on start. please sort this out! some of us do want to lead a minor.

You should post these sorts of thoughts in the Ideas for the next patch thread.

Edit: ha, never mind. See you've done so, already

 

[joriandrake]

You should post these sorts of thoughts in the Ideas for the next patch thread.

Agree, that one red colored idea is especially worthy for the eyes of the "patchers"

 

[Star_Wolf]

This game is not ready to be played yet.

I'm going back to EUIII: NA until a patch for VV comes out.

I was really really having fun my first game. I was doing well as Rome, expanding pretty quickly, especially into Gaul. Too quickly, as it turned out. I had somehow managed to deplete my manpower, and then everything went to hell.

The until-now docile Seleucid empire declares war on me, bringing the also powerful Egypt and not inconsiderable Pontus into the fray. My stack of 56 navy is totally demolished immediately in one battle with Egypt, and I'm outnumbered on the ground at least 2 to 1 overall. I got Egyptians in spain and corsica, Pontians in Greece, and Seleucids marching towards Rome through the boot.

Those damn elephant lovers in N. africa decide to be little opportunists, and get me while I'm occupied, snatching sicily and Sardinia, and try to charge up through spain as well.

A few months later, some disloyal Jackass on the Greek defense team decides to Rebel, and take half my eastern army with him.

So it's looking pretty bleak. But I'm having SO much fun with my new game that I'm gonna tough it out. I can still outwit the AI, and I got lots of money to spend on mercs. I'm losing ground, but I'm slaughtering stacks of 30 for every few territories the enemy takes. I'm hooked, and I'm not gonna quit.

Then I make the mistake of finishing off the rebs.

Apparently, there is a glitch that makes all occupied territory become OWNED territory if you win your civil war.

So every territory that egypt, carthage, seleucids, and pontus have taken from me has switched ownership, and I didn't even get a damn ceasefire out of the deal. I'm still at war, and now all that territory they stole doesn't even count towards a warscore, so I'm set even FARTHER back.

I wonder if I could use this bug to my advantage, and set up a little civil war when I'm WINNING? I could reduce the pesky greeks to a OPM in one fell swoop.

Screw this fellows, I'll see you when the patch comes out.

OMG!

That's exactly what happend in my game. but in 1 major big diffrence. i ownd carthage and never tried to get gaul yet(trying to play historicly). Mecadon was just out of a bloody civl war and i used it to DoW her. but guess what? stupid half moraled 28 chorots of mecadon beats everything i throw at him because the province mecedonia has a sea landing debuff(bug!? comon !!!) and i couldnt brake those basterds. i threw at them my entire army i swear it! i even brought rainforcment from africa.
all in vain! they just whiped out everything(FFS!!!) at that point my man power was depleted. just when the selucids allied with egypt(this happens to many times! they always end up togther WTF?!) and pontus DoW me. my 58 ships navy guarding the straits from asia minor to greece(to prevent them from crossing) was whiped out by a 216(!!!!!!!!) ships of the egyptien navy, yeah the navl AI got alot of love as you can see >_>.

and if that's not enough, waves after waves of barbs invaded my northen borders with no one to defend it(all my armies were at greece trying to win agaisnt a puny mecedonian army), and why all those barbs invaeded you ask?! because the the selucid army made all the way from bosperian kingdom to italy . provoking EVERY SINGLE barb in a province leading them all the way to Italy. at that point i seriously quited the game without saving, and told my self calm down. the game is just not redy. it needs a patch. that's the way to go Paradox !

 

[Nyrael]

and if that's not enough, waves after waves of barbs invaded my northen borders with no one to defend it(all my armies were at greece trying to win agaisnt a puny mecedonian army), and why all those barbs invaeded you ask?! because the the selucid army made all the way from bosperian kingdom to italy . provoking EVERY SINGLE barb in a province leading them all the way to Italy. at that point i seriously quited the game without saving, and told my self calm down. the game is just not redy. it needs a patch. that's the way to go Paradox !

And whats bad with that? The fact that AI used a good strategy for once?

Also, manpower really ain't a problem if you take care that it is high and take into consideration every move other factions might get, not to mention that you don't need to wage a war every few years.

 

[unmerged(90249)]

And whats bad with that? The fact that AI used a good strategy for once?

Also, manpower really ain't a problem if you take care that it is high and take into consideration every move other factions might get, not to mention that you don't need to wage a war every few years.

Yes, but it also mean some people have problems to think ahead ... no manpower, no defense, it's a call for a gang rape usually.

 

[Star_Wolf]

And whats bad with that? The fact that AI used a good strategy for once?

Also, manpower really ain't a problem if you take care that it is high and take into consideration every move other factions might get, not to mention that you don't need to wage a war every few years.

What's the point of this game then? nothing to do in peace time really. and you dont understand. the AI spamed the entire continent with barbs(while the 12 chorts AI army defeted every single barb army and made them run over me) now picture a situation when your whole army is stuck on greece and your borders are wide open (and please dont tell me it's my fault, or blame it on my "lack" of sight ahead. it's plain stupid a 20 chorot army defets every thing get thrownd at him, because his morale ragian is higher then the player. it's uses a bug or a tweak against you to win which is wrong). and barbs from all over the continent are raiding your empire. now even if i havn't been at war and i had all my armies at the borders i still wouldnt have stoped this massive flood of barbs. the AI just triggred barbs in more then 20 provinces.
and in the way man power droping rate, their is no chance to defend your self. all your armies are on 10% of their streangh. and there you go...you lost a 2 hours game for what? bug...and unfinished context. which is making me angry. it's not suitible for paradox to take step back from her original games.


No single player, not even the best of you can confront a selucid+mecadon+egypt+pontic. alliance + barbs armies from more then 20 provinces. it's the whole world agaisnt Rome. and guess what? Rome has ran out of man power(even though i started the war with 205kMP just been at war for less then a year draind it to ZERO!)

all iam saying is fine you can blame this on my lack of skill . sight ahead. what ever. but the fact the building armies is taking huge % of your MP. and fighting in a minor war deplet at least 1/3 of your MP. something is wrong. and the tweaks and bugs(or cheating?) the AI is using to win is making me so mad i feel like earese this game. it isn't complete. and lacks alot of basic stuff they should have included. dont get me wrong i love the idea. just not the way they sorted it eventully.

 

[Alexander Seil]

What's the point of this game then? nothing to do in peace time really. and you dont understand. the AI spamed the entire continent with barbs(while the 12 chorts AI army defeted every single barb army and made them run over me) now picture a situation when your whole army is stuck on greece and your borders are wide open (and please dont tell me it's my fault, or blame it on my "lack" of sight ahead. it's plain stupid a 20 chorot army defets every thing get thrownd at him, because his morale ragian is higher then the player. it's uses a bug or a tweak against you to win which is wrong). and barbs from all over the continent are raiding your empire. now even if i havn't been at war and i had all my armies at the borders i still wouldnt have stoped this massive flood of barbs. the AI just triggred barbs in more then 20 provinces.
and in the way man power droping rate, their is no chance to defend your self. all your armies are on 10% of their streangh. and there you go...you lost a 2 hours game for what? bug...and unfinished context. which is making me angry. it's not suitible for paradox to take step back from her original games.


No single player, not even the best of you can confront a selucid+mecadon+egypt+pontic. alliance + barbs armies from more then 20 provinces. it's the whole world agaisnt Rome. and guess what? Rome has ran out of man power(even though i started the war with 205kMP just been at war for less then a year draind it to ZERO!)

all iam saying is fine you can blame this on my lack of skill . sight ahead. what ever. but the fact the building armies is taking huge % of your MP. and fighting in a minor war deplet at least 1/3 of your MP. something is wrong. and the tweaks and bugs(or cheating?) the AI is using to win is making me so mad i feel like earese this game. it isn't complete. and lacks alot of basic stuff they should have included. dont get me wrong i love the idea. just not the way they sorted it eventully.

Sorry, but everything you've stated indicates mostly lack of common sense. Obviously, provoking the THREE Hellenistic superpowers (yeah, THREE) simultaneously should get you plastered. The Romans never did that and it still took them until the end of "game time" to establish control over the Mediterranean basin. The AI provoking barbarians is actually stupid, but given the way it worked out in the end, kudos to the AI.

 

[lucaluca]

OMG!

That's exactly what happend in my game. but in 1 major big diffrence. i ownd carthage and never tried to get gaul yet(trying to play historicly). Mecadon was just out of a bloody civl war and i used it to DoW her. but guess what? stupid half moraled 28 chorots of mecadon beats everything i throw at him because the province mecedonia has a sea landing debuff(bug!? comon !!!) and i couldnt brake those basterds. i threw at them my entire army i swear it! i even brought rainforcment from africa.
all in vain! they just whiped out everything(FFS!!!) at that point my man power was depleted. just when the selucids allied with egypt(this happens to many times! they always end up togther WTF?!) and pontus DoW me. my 58 ships navy guarding the straits from asia minor to greece(to prevent them from crossing) was whiped out by a 216(!!!!!!!!) ships of the egyptien navy, yeah the navl AI got alot of love as you can see >_>.

and if that's not enough, waves after waves of barbs invaded my northen borders with no one to defend it(all my armies were at greece trying to win agaisnt a puny mecedonian army), and why all those barbs invaeded you ask?! because the the selucid army made all the way from bosperian kingdom to italy . provoking EVERY SINGLE barb in a province leading them all the way to Italy. at that point i seriously quited the game without saving, and told my self calm down. the game is just not redy. it needs a patch. that's the way to go Paradox !

Which bug are you referring about in the coast of Macedonia? Maybe you should report it in the bug forum. And I wouldn't call a war with Macedonia a "minor war". Also Macedonia is often allied with the Seleucids so you should have tried some diplomacy? You could have tried to ally Egypt for example, or in my game Rome allied Macedonia itself after a war.

I actually experienced a pretty fast replenishing of manpower, about 10 years to replenish it for more then half of its maximum I think it's more than fair (and Seleucid Empire is constantly at 0 so in the beginning it was just reinforcing the armies).

 

[Alexander Seil]

Well, a generation grows up on average in 20 years, so it should take roughly 20 years to replenish the manpower pool (I'm using a million simplifying assumptions here, but it's roughly right) from zero to maximum. Provided that your population remains stable.

 

[Star_Wolf]

Sorry, but everything you've stated indicates mostly lack of common sense. Obviously, provoking the THREE Hellenistic superpowers (yeah, THREE) simultaneously should get you plastered. The Romans never did that and it still took them until the end of "game time" to establish control over the Mediterranean basin. The AI provoking barbarians is actually stupid, but given the way it worked out in the end, kudos to the AI.

That's the whole point. i didnt went out agianst all the helenistic world. i improved my realtion with selucids+egypt to 200. prior to the war. i took under a considration the selucids will join the fight. but i also had a 56 ship navy to block the straits of asia minor so i can launch an assualt on the selucids on my own time and planing until ill finish off mecadon. the problem started like i said when a puny mecedonian army crushed and destroyed everything i threw at him. because in the province mecadon the attack recive a landing from a beach debuff which hughly affect the battle in mecadon favor(that dosent make sense i cam from inland. i didnt try ambhbious landings). all was fine i had 2 enemies, mecadon and selucids(Rome did it in the Syrian wars, DoW those two so yeah Rome actully did pulled it off). Egypt remaind netural and all the sudden allied with selucids and enters the war. add to that the hordes of barbs those stupid selucdis awaken on their way from bosperian kingdom to Italy :wacko: . and let's not forget the fact that small 12 chorts selucid army manged to win and defet every barb army it has awaken! even they were hughly outnumbred. the AI regain morale just to damn fast.

 

[Scipio Aemilius]

OMG!

That's exactly what happend in my game. but in 1 major big diffrence. i ownd carthage and never tried to get gaul yet(trying to play historicly). Mecadon was just out of a bloody civl war and i used it to DoW her. but guess what? stupid half moraled 28 chorots of mecadon beats everything i throw at him because the province mecedonia has a sea landing debuff(bug!? comon !!!) and i couldnt brake those basterds. i threw at them my entire army i swear it! i even brought rainforcment from africa.
all in vain! they just whiped out everything(FFS!!!) at that point my man power was depleted. just when the selucids allied with egypt(this happens to many times! they always end up togther WTF?!) and pontus DoW me. my 58 ships navy guarding the straits from asia minor to greece(to prevent them from crossing) was whiped out by a 216(!!!!!!!!) ships of the egyptien navy, yeah the navl AI got alot of love as you can see >_>.

and if that's not enough, waves after waves of barbs invaded my northen borders with no one to defend it(all my armies were at greece trying to win agaisnt a puny mecedonian army), and why all those barbs invaeded you ask?! because the the selucid army made all the way from bosperian kingdom to italy . provoking EVERY SINGLE barb in a province leading them all the way to Italy. at that point i seriously quited the game without saving, and told my self calm down. the game is just not redy. it needs a patch. that's the way to go Paradox !

First of all, this story has nothing in common with the previous poster, who was complaining about a known form of turbo-annexation.

Now, I've had a similar problem of "invincible army" of 15k completely slaughtering combined 20k stacks. Fact is: that army had a general with a martial stat of 10, and somehow, martial points give armies a discipline bonus, that army was indeed invincible! So I changed my strategy: instead of trying to destroy it, I would wage war like Fabius Cunctator and avoid direct fight, but retaking conquered provinces.

For the navy thing, I had a similar problem fighting Carthage, so I built 1 massive fleet of 150 (plus 4 others of 30 each to clean regional waters of pirates). Fleets are not that expensive, my fleet maintenance is way lower than my army one. Both are at full maintenance (I have so much money anyway!!)

For the barbs, I have many stacks watching over my small barbarian frontier (it used to be a bigger frontier with a lesser number of troops). I have a 20k stack for full intervention and 8k (5 C and 3 HA) for immediate intervention.

Also, always watch your MP pool and your number of armies! Keep both high! All other nations are like vultures waiting for a feeble corpse to feed on. By senselessly destroying your armies and MP pool, you offered them that corpse: yours!

I would not say that your mistakes were a lack of sight, but lack of adaptation. When you see something doesn't work, you need to adapt to it, just like the Romans did!

 

[Alexander Seil]

That's the whole point. i didnt went out agianst all the helenistic world. i improved my realtion with selucids+egypt to 200. prior to the war. i took under a considration the selucids will join the fight. but i also had a 56 ship navy to block the straits of asia minor so i can launch an assualt on the selucids on my own time and planing until ill finish off mecadon. the problem started like i said when a puny mecedonian army crushed and destroyed everything i threw at him. because in the province mecadon the attack recive a landing from a beach debuff which hughly affect the battle in mecadon favor(that dosent make sense i cam from inland. i didnt try ambhbious landings). all was fine i had 2 enemies, mecadon and selucids(Rome did it in the Syrian wars, DoW those two so yeah Rome actully did pulled it off). Egypt remaind netural and all the sudden allied with selucids and enters the war. add to that the hordes of barbs those stupid selucdis awaken on their way from bosperian kingdom to Italy :wacko: . and let's not forget the fact that small 12 chorts selucid army manged to win and defet every barb army it has awaken! even they were hughly outnumbred. the AI regain morale just to damn fast.

There is an "amphibious landing" penalty for crossing straits between mainland and the islands, too.

 

[Star_Wolf]

There is an "amphibious landing" penalty for crossing straits between mainland and the islands, too.

That's great, if you consider the province Mecdonia an island. Or the province Carthage for that matter.