Destroyed Divisions?

[unmerged(78582)]

What will haven when you get annexed and you still have some divisions in some not victory point province? or if you fought a battle against a superior enemy in you last battle. you can reorganize and go exile, but where do your loyal army go? wouldn't atleast a small part of the surviors + civilians follow if possible? this have always made me wonder in hoi2.

NO TALK ABOUT PRISONERS OF WAR OR HOLOCAUSTS! SINCE IT IS FORBIDDEN IN THE FORUM RULES! PLEASE

 

[unmerged(84607)]

Well, in terms of annexation HoI never modelled the existence of annexed countries so post-annexation armies never took part.

I guess armies on home ground would most likely surrender (German armies in 1945, Poland 1939) while armies abroad (Free France) would continue the fight. But then, they were never annexed. I always make sure to evacuate at least some of the french divisions when playing UK.

I guess you could have transition of armed forces in allies territory the same way you have transition of navies.

 

[unmerged(105989)]

Maybe in addition to merely governments in exile, those same foks get a very limited amount of MP, and a small portion of their host's IC (dependent upon the host being willing to give it up). This could simulate the exiles gathering together expatriots and soldiers that escaped the fall of their country into armed formations. Examples include the Polish airborne brigade and armored division, but there are others. Support could be handled the same, by their host nation.

 

[Parabola]

Maybe in addition to merely governments in exile, those same foks get a very limited amount of MP, and a small portion of their host's IC (dependent upon the host being willing to give it up). This could simulate the exiles gathering together expatriots and soldiers that escaped the fall of their country into armed formations. Examples include the Polish airborne brigade and armored division, but there are others. Support could be handled the same, by their host nation.

In regards to Poland, I like the idea that when Poland is annexed the UK should recieve an event which gives them a fighter squadron and an army unit or 2, to represent the Polish who fled to Britain and continued the fight.

 

[Arkas]

how about having a slider in the production screen that allows a country to dedicate some IC`s and materials of its own to be used by the gov. in exile to construct units ? It would be a waste to have MP from a coutry in exile, and no IC to put it to good use.

 

[unmerged(105989)]

how about having a slider in the production screen that allows a country to dedicate some IC`s and materials of its own to be used by the gov. in exile to construct units ? It would be a waste to have MP from a coutry in exile, and no IC to put it to good use.

very true, otherwise they would have to research the "broomhandle" tech

 

[Lazy_Boy]

Am I the only one who is in no way enthusiastic about the government in exile crap? It's either going to be a pointless gimmick or extremely unrealistic to make it "fun" to play as one.

 

[Hollandia]

Yeah, it's not like you're going ot be winning the war as Poland while being in exile. Though it is nice for Poles to actually play their country all the way through WW2.

 

[unmerged(78582)]

Yeah, it's not like you're going ot be winning the war as Poland while being in exile. Though it is nice for Poles to actually play their country all the way through WW2.

how do you know, what if you screw up history as eg Poland by dowing the Czechoslovakia and the Sovjetunion that has guaranteed independence to Czechoslova. that in turn makes GB France Germany etc may/do dow the Sovjetunion. the sovjet invade and desrtoyes Poland. poland goes exile, the when sovejunion is weak and you'll builded up your forces, then you stirke back.

 

[Shadow Master]

Am I the only one who is in no way enthusiastic about the government in exile crap? It's either going to be a pointless gimmick or extremely unrealistic to make it "fun" to play as one.

No, your definitely not alone, lol. :rofl:

 

[unmerged(105989)]

I like the idea personally. It will play out more in diplomatic, map reshaping terms, allowing nations like the Allies to "liberate" France, Belgium, the Netherlands, etc, without having to install them as puppets. This will actually be more realistic than the current situation, where say, as the US, I "release" all the W. European countries as puppets after driving off the Germans. That and the partisan activity against me, the US, in France, was just a TEENSY bit ODD.

back to the OP, I definitely think that armies should not just "vanish" when their country is annexed. Parabola had a good thought with events giving allied nations some additional units. I still like my idea of armies in exile.

 

[Driggsd]

Am I the only one who is in no way enthusiastic about the government in exile crap? It's either going to be a pointless gimmick or extremely unrealistic to make it "fun" to play as one.

Hmm extremely unrealistic.............. Where to start on that! Well as has been pointed out the polish forces that went to the UK, the US and the USSR after the fall of Poland. I was stationed in London, UK for 3 years at a place call West Ruislip. Was used durring WW2, to train and billet the free polish air force. There were 3 squadrons stationed there. (1 training 2 fighter). They took part in the battle of briton and the rest of the war including D Day. Sadly the Brits used the Polish paratroopers and armor as cannon fodder for alot of the interviening years. But they played a role.
The most REALISTIC idea here is giving the remaining units to to an allied nation. (AS did happen in WW2!) Inversly I think there should be something said for gaining troops when conquering some countries. Such as all the SS divisions that Germany gained from the conquered teritories and events represent the volunteers from sypathetic countries. (Yes all those Swedish old men living in "folksholmes" that went to "work" in Germany for 2 years durring the war were actualy in the SS)

http://militaryhistory.suite101.com/article.cfm/hitler_s_foreign_legion__waffen_ss

It's either going to be a pointless gimmick or extremely unrealistic to make it "fun" to play as one.

Pointless........ Well yes it would suck to have your country over run and lose the game, but it lends a way to keep you in the fight. Also if your alliance end up winning and liberating your country in a few years then it was not pointless at all!

The people that suggesting and supporting this are both millitary people (know what is and is not realistic) come from small countries that were taken over for a some time durring WW2 (in which case it is not pointless to them)

You are being both rude and condesending to both of the afformentioned groups. I would suggest you read up on Polish history. It may open your eyes on this subject. Being respectful cost you nothing nor does it make you a target for the actual experts to flame you.

 

[Tornadoli]

What I think should happen is this:
Suppose Poland allies with Czechoslovakia, and Germany dows Czechoslovakia in 1938 (Sudetenland Crisis).
Germany overruns Czechoslovakia and annexes it, and all the soldiers from Czechoslovakia dissapear.
This is what happens in HoI 2.
Now what should happen is that once they retreat into Polish territory, even if they are annexed, they should still fight on. They could either fight under Czechoslovakian Government in Exile, or under Military Control of Poland. Either Way, altough Government in Exile would be better. Why would those soldiers suddenly disspear when their country is annexed? I think they would be more willing to fight on and liberate it.

 

[Driggsd]

What I think should happen is this:
Suppose Poland allies with Czechoslovakia, and Germany dows Czechoslovakia in 1938 (Sudetenland Crisis).
Germany overruns Czechoslovakia and annexes it, and all the soldiers from Czechoslovakia dissapear.
This is what happens in HoI 2.
Now what should happen is that once they retreat into Polish territory, even if they are annexed, they should still fight on. They could either fight under Czechoslovakian Government in Exile, or under Military Control of Poland. Either Way, altough Government in Exile would be better. Why would those soldiers suddenly disspear when their country is annexed? I think they would be more willing to fight on and liberate it.

Not all soldiers fought on. If there was no place for these units to retreat to they would be effectualy destroyed. How ever a Goverment in Exile would draw dissedents who would find ways out of occupied teritory. The funny thing is that this would also bring down the dissent in the occupied teritory as the biggest dissenters would either revolt openly or go join up with the goverment in Exile.

Also alot of occupied peoles just got on with life as normal. Sadly under German rule the jews, freemasons, and some other groups were persicuted but the avarage citizen was left alone, thus they were not so inclined to revolt.

 

[unmerged(78582)]

What I think should happen is this:
Suppose Poland allies with Czechoslovakia, and Germany dows Czechoslovakia in 1938 (Sudetenland Crisis).
Germany overruns Czechoslovakia and annexes it, and all the soldiers from Czechoslovakia dissapear.
This is what happens in HoI 2.
Now what should happen is that once they retreat into Polish territory, even if they are annexed, they should still fight on. They could either fight under Czechoslovakian Government in Exile, or under Military Control of Poland. Either Way, altough Government in Exile would be better. Why would those soldiers suddenly disspear when their country is annexed? I think they would be more willing to fight on and liberate it.

true, it would be nice. then when you liberated your homeland and the heroes that did it are parading, then you can start planing a payback plan.

 

[unmerged(105989)]

true, it would be nice. then when you liberated your homeland and the heroes that did it are parading, then you can start planing a payback plan.

On a related note (but still random) it would be cool if you could get events like Great Military Parade, but a little more specific, like the Allies liberating Paris. That should be good for reducing dissent, maybe for all the allies. Anything's better than fighting the "shrimp farmers" and killing "goofies with a bayonet"

 

[Tornadoli]

I do think that if Czechoslovakia would have allied with Poland, and it would be overrun, all the Czechoslovakian units in Poland would have fought on. They wouldn't just dissapear.

 

[unmerged(78582)]

I do think that if Czechoslovakia would have allied with Poland, and it would be overrun, all the Czechoslovakian units in Poland would have fought on. They wouldn't just dissapear.

one problem, depending on how correctly paradox folows the history when making the scenarios.
eg. didn't Czechoslovakia and Poland fought a war over some disputed areas? in 1920? that is not that far from WW2, so when the Czechoslovaks get dowed by germany, they would not have any where to retreat since they had bad relationship whit poland due to disputes, Hungary had claims on their territory that made bad relationships, and austia was under german influence and last they where landlocked.
then the exile, would any country cared to take them in? small frendly countrys didn't have anything to spare, the allies gave german free hand in taking them, so i wouldn't tink Czechoslovakia would be so happy to go in exile there.

so there should also be some restriction to who and where a annex country can exile, and depending on situation how many loyals follow the exile.

 

[unmerged(105989)]

The simplest solution is generally the best one. In this case, a neutral country will not be very likely to allow its territory to be used as a base for High intensity warfare against another nation. They might support partisans and whatnot, but say the Poles allowing retreating Czech units into your territory, then letting them attack out of their territory, is an act of war. Supporting partisans could also be construed as such, but it much less overt, and much less likely to cause an international incident. Thus, I think that all surviving units of an annexed country would simply dissolve, unless they had some means of escape, as in they were in an allied country at the time, were at a port, and could be transported out prior to the fall.

 

[Waffen9999]

Well personally and I doubt they'd do it if they really can, I'd like to see siezure's of weapons. If you annex a country that still has divisions in the field, assuming they don't flee and join another country, ie. on the coast of France they could board English ships for Britain whatever, then you should get a portion of the weapons. Armored units could give you an armored unit for instance. While the seizure of small arms from infantry wouldn't arm an infantry unit.... well depending on the country, you could instead either convert the munitions to money/resources or give them to an ally/puppet which could then translate to either manpower or a few free divisions etc. Just a thought.