Destiny of Nations 2 Discussions

[unmerged(5206)]

The Mughals are strong, but walking from Delhi to Iraq causes a good bit of attrition .

*SPLUTTERS* HALF THAT??? ARE YOU UTTERLY DERANGED OR MERELY MISLED?

Ooops . Bad guessing on my part, LOL. I figured since I had the honor of taking enormous attrition that my casualty figures were much, much higher than yours. Perhaps I lost more than a million, dunno. How do you check casualty figures? Go by previous saves?

 

[Wyvern]

I would say the Mughals have the potential to surpass the Ottomans in strength and power due to their greater wealth, but they aren't quite there yet. We caught up in land tech this session, and more surprisingly beat many latin tech european nations to land 41 (Sweden and England for example). What lets us down is our manpower/support limit, (we're too offensive and went fully naval so we could colonise Siberia which really hurts manpower), but once we've raised a few more CC's that should all change.

 

[Peter Ebbesen]

Originally posted by Fate

Ooops . Bad guessing on my part, LOL. I figured since I had the honor of taking enormous attrition that my casualty figures were much, much higher than yours. Perhaps I lost more than a million, dunno. How do you check casualty figures? Go by previous saves?

Yes. I took a player-save from 1750 and one from 1734 (didn't have one from 1740, unfortunately) and looked up the casualties. For your information

Ottoman losses 1734-1750:
Combat: 676K inf, 25K cav, 315 art
Attrition: 1,669K inf, 49K cav, 28 art
Total: 2,419K, 343 art

Looks like the Ottomans took a few more casualties than you guessed as well, though I do not know how many of these casualties were due to other actions.

 

[unmerged(5206)]

I think I lost about 50,000 men in the war with Benin, and maybe 20,000 in the war with Georgia. Other than that I only fought a few rebels.

Man, I really should learn how to general instead of throwing my superior manpower around .

Those cannons were mostly disbanded, I'm not sure why I had so many. I'm also unsure if they lowered my support costs any, but it's a force of habit.

Hey Mr Ottoman, fancy an alliance?

Sure thing . You get all of Persia east of the Caspian Sea, I'll take everything south and west of it .

 

[unmerged(15967)]

Originally posted by Wyvern
I would say the Mughals have the potential to surpass the Ottomans in strength and power due to their greater wealth, but they aren't quite there yet. We caught up in land tech this session, and more surprisingly beat many latin tech european nations to land 41 (Sweden and England for example). What lets us down is our manpower/support limit, (we're too offensive and went fully naval so we could colonise Siberia which really hurts manpower), but once we've raised a few more CC's that should all change.

Hehehe, I switched to investing into land only 6 months before geianing level 41. I could have got it a decade earlier, but that would have cost me that nice 24 ducat neigbour bonus for the whole time.

 

[Wyvern]

Originally posted by Peter Ebbesen
Well, if they had arrived at the same time, rather than dribbling in in 50K detachments every four months, at a time when I was burning 50K per month in delaying actions, they might have done more good

Ah, well. 'Twas a good war, and I am happy that we managed to inflict some sort of casualties on the Ottomans

In hindsight I should probably have moved all my fleet north rather than leaving the main body to defend Zanzibar. I could then have ferried 150k plus armies to the front line, instead my northern fleet could only transport 64k for a long time. I tried to time the landings to complement your attacks whilst sending a few detatchments by land - but attrition really was brutal through some of your provinces. Your screams for help also caused me to rush forces forward a little more quickly than I probably should have, but well we all learn from these experiences. For example, I've learnt the Mughals need an even bigger fleet .

 

[Peter Ebbesen]

Originally posted by Fate

Man, I really should learn how to general instead of throwing my superior manpower around .

If you ever face a Persia with CCs or, more likely, if you ever end up fighting Damocles as Russia, you might need it. On the other hand, it did its job, which is the important part

Those cannons were mostly disbanded, I'm not sure why I had so many. I'm also unsure if they lowered my support costs any, but it's a force of habit.

Nope. Those figures were pure combat and attrition. I did not included disbanded troops.

 

[unmerged(5206)]

Bahh! The Ottomans need something like 150 warships to ensure some sort of balance in the Indian ocean. Right now I have a pitiful 50 warships in Somalia, and 200+ galleys in Constantinople. Nile is now building a shipyard so we'll see .

 

[Prince Eugene]

Mwahahahaha

Long habiter les alliés

Woops, I forgot, France will be speaking German soon.

Lang lebt die Alliierten!
(Long live the allies)

 

[RedPhoenix]

I'd like everyones opinion on the china issue, I forgot to ask about it before sorry

I been busy lately and somehow skipped a track there...

anyway.. I honestly think that the tech they got is ok, considering they have skipped almost the entire game and without it are nothing more than a punching bag and not really worth having anyway.

Well they are a punching bag even with the tech... but still.. heh

Atleast it gives them atleast a minor fighting chance.

But I'll go by what we all decide together.

They right now have 5 infra 4 trade, land 24, naval 17 or 18 or something.

trade was upped by 1, infra by 2, naval by 1 I think? land by 2 or 3. forgot which.

Anyway post here if you think their tech is too high atm, or of its ok, or if they should have even more?

Mughals have CC tech and persia is land tech 29, both have far greater economic techs. Holland has like 47 land naval and maxed almost in economic techs. Those for their neighbours.

 

[unmerged(7184)]

Well what would be the logic in lowering China's tech? If anything I'd say more!

 

[Wyvern]

Originally posted by Quietus
Well what would be the logic in lowering China's tech? If anything I'd say more!

Two reasons spring to mind. Firstly we said NO EDITING, something that was agreed in this thread very early on. And then to have this editing out of the blue without even consulting anyone was even worse.

At the beginning of the session with these changes China now had a higher naval tech than the Mughals and was only 5 or so land levels behind. This was a major shake up of the situation on my eastern border. Suddenly I had to spend thousands of ducats in fortifying the east, money I should have been saving to buy construction centers. The upshot of this change was purely to weaken the Mughals and so I say this editing must be reversed despite the fact that my land tech obviously nearly doubled this session, that's still no excuse for making changes like this. It's like picking a country in europe and saying, hey they can't compete with France, lets up their tech a bunch of levels so they can. Nobody would agree to that and I don't agree to this...

 

[Damocles]

Originally posted by Wyvern
Two reasons spring to mind. Firstly we said NO EDITING, something that was agreed in this thread very early on. And then to have this editing out of the blue without even consulting anyone was even worse.

At the beginning of the session with these changes China now had a higher naval tech than the Mughals and was only 5 or so land levels behind. This was a major shake up of the situation on my eastern border. Suddenly I had to spend thousands of ducats in fortifying the east, money I should have been saving to buy construction centers. The upshot of this change was purely to weaken the Mughals and so I say this editing must be reversed despite the fact that my land tech obviously nearly doubled this session, that's still no excuse for making changes like this. It's like picking a country in europe and saying, hey they can't compete with France, lets up their tech a bunch of levels so they can. Nobody would agree to that and I don't agree to this...

I think Red's motivation was that, he wanted to make up for the fact that China was played by AI longer then it should have been, and to make it at least playable for the last 50-60 years of gameplay. But yeah, should've brought it up first...Dosen't mean it was a bad idea though.

 

[Norrefeldt]

The old czar is happy to see Russia finally raising! Nice work Damocles. It's a pity I didn't get to play during the good years (no Poland, end of Swedish generals...) but vacation is also important. This campaign actually seems to be played until conclusion after many (now forgotten) troubles, a very good example for the community! (Not the only one, but it is too rare )

 

[RedPhoenix]

Originally posted by Damocles
I think Red's motivation was that, he wanted to make up for the fact that China was played by AI longer then it should have been, and to make it at least playable for the last 50-60 years of gameplay. But yeah, should've brought it up first...Dosen't mean it was a bad idea though.

what damocles said about china, there was no motivation other than make china atleast remotely playable.

It is hardly the same as editing a player controlled european country, china has been AI for the entire game. We have editing for new spawning nations, we have agreed on that, and its exponential depending how late we introduce AI nations. 2k ducats and a fleet was given to holland 300 years ago, I think giving this to china is still a lot less considering how far in the game is.

This is my basing on it, nothing more.

But as I said, its ok by me to drop chinese tech levels and drop it as a player nation, if that is what you want. If we drop their all but infra tech back down, I think we might just as well drop it as a player nation as they are unable to do anything then.

 

[unmerged(15967)]

Personally I would prefer keeping the tech and giving china han in addition. The Mughal interests are not the only ones that are hurt anyway, the Netherlands are concerned just as much.

 

[PJL]

Originally posted by juv95hrn
A new great war has started! Im surprised how cheap some players can sell their player integrity. 1750 Ducats to never, ever be trusted again and haunted for the rest of the campaign. Well its certainly allowed and its just a friendly observation, no complaint. Actually I have been looking for some end game action and I guess I got it. It was almost worth paying for the opposition

Well, my actions prior to the war is hardly any worse than what France did to Sweden earlier. It's all part of the game, no need to go overboard about it.

 

[RedPhoenix]

Originally posted by PJL
Well, my actions prior to the war is hardly any worse than what France did to Sweden earlier. It's all part of the game, no need to go overboard about it.

Well I still wouldn't compare first receiving payment for provinces then refusing to give them, same as booting someone out of your alliance.

Honestly it's a bit borderline if that can be said to be abusing the game engine, as you both agreed to the province transfer and money was given.

Is there any way to fairly deal the province transfer then, or is it allways ok for the other side to betray the agreement? perhaps bigger trades needs to be done 1 province at a time then allways... 1 payment per province... it all gets very complicated if we start betraying province transfer deals.

 

[Damocles]

Originally posted by mnorrefeldt
The old czar is happy to see Russia finally raising! Nice work Damocles. It's a pity I didn't get to play during the good years (no Poland, end of Swedish generals...) but vacation is also important. This campaign actually seems to be played until conclusion after many (now forgotten) troubles, a very good example for the community! (Not the only one, but it is too rare )

*tips his hat to the kaiser in holland*

 

[unmerged(15967)]

Originally posted by RedPhoenix
Well I still wouldn't compare first receiving payment for provinces then refusing to give them, same as booting someone out of your alliance.

Honestly it's a bit borderline if that can be said to be abusing the game engine, as you both agreed to the province transfer and money was given.

Is there any way to fairly deal the province transfer then, or is it allways ok for the other side to betray the agreement? perhaps bigger trades needs to be done 1 province at a time then allways... 1 payment per province... it all gets very complicated if we start betraying province transfer deals.

The more straightforward procedure would be 50% payment before the transfer and 50% after.