Destiny of Nations 2 Discussions

[Damocles]

Originally posted by Peter Ebbesen
Yes. Being mauled by an Ottoman empire with thrice the Persian army support limit, twice and a half times Persian manpower, and a fourteen land tech levels advantage hurt. Compared to that, the opportunistic Russian snowboarding expedition was a pinprick.

(Nitpick: The Russian cores on the east are extremely silly in this particular game. I have owned and/or colonised the provinces for about 180 years, and this is the first time Russia even attepts to go west after their failed expedition around 1560-1580. Nevertheless, the Russians can take them from me for 0BB apiece, wheras retaking them will cost me 2BB. Life just isn't fair )

I did storm like 20 small provinces. Hardly a snowboarding expedition...The snow attrition was brutal

 

[Damocles]

Not to mention...It was only natural that Russia would turn East after dealing with Poland (what Poland?) and reclaiming its 7 CBs from Sweden...

 

[Wyvern]

Originally posted by Damocles
I did storm like 20 small provinces. Hardly a snowboarding expedition...The snow attrition was brutal

It was a shame really Peter couldn't hold out just a few more months. I was beginning to storm those provinces back for him quite successfully. But his country was rebel wracked so I guess he needed peace.

 

[unmerged(15967)]

Damocles demanding from Peter to tell him what province he (himself) wanted was certainly a highlight of the session

I'm glad that I managed a small comeback with Sweden after the ultra-rape of last session, too . Swedens income, manpower and inflation are all back were they used to be, but of course without that 20 year long war and all these lost provinces they would all be much better now

 

[Damocles]

Originally posted by Wyvern
It was a shame really Peter couldn't hold out just a few more months. I was beginning to storm those provinces back for him quite successfully. But his country was rebel wracked so I guess he needed peace.

Hard to storm with those nasty cav armies that wiped out my poor peasants.

 

[juv95hrn]

Very stable session! Only one crash during the entire evening.

A new great war has started! Im surprised how cheap some players can sell their player integrity. 1750 Ducats to never, ever be trusted again and haunted for the rest of the campaign. Well its certainly allowed and its just a friendly observation, no complaint. Actually I have been looking for some end game action and I guess I got it. It was almost worth paying for the opposition

 

[Damocles]

Originally posted by Freiherr vStein
Damocles demanding from Peter to tell him what province he (himself) wanted was certainly a highlight of the session

I'm glad that I managed a small comeback with Sweden after the ultra-rape of last session, too . Swedens income, manpower and inflation are all back were they used to be, but of course without that 20 year long war and all these lost provinces they would all be much better now

Gaining Svealand, which is the richest Scandinavian province in manpower and income will do that for you. Afterall, all you lost to Russia was Orthodox Ugric and Russian provinces...Your only BIG loss was Danzig.

 

[Peter Ebbesen]

Originally posted by Wyvern
It was a shame really Peter couldn't hold out just a few more months. I was beginning to storm those provinces back for him quite successfully. But his country was rebel wracked so I guess he needed peace.

Well, I could hold out a few more months, but I deemed it would not be worth it, honestly. Even with full Mughal support [meaning rather more Mughals than I saw in Persia against the Ottomans ], it would take at least another two years to clear out the Russians, during which I would receive a fair number of stabhits. Additionally, this would delay my trip to land41 by another five years or so. As such, giving up some four Siberian provinces+500d (that did not cut off my access to the rest of my colonies, which Russia's first many demands attempted to do), seemed the wiser choice.

After all, in purely economic terms, I lost about 60d/year and saved about 140d/stab point, at the cost of zero manpower. As such, their loss is hardly going to traumatise me

The loss of Azerbaijan, Kirkuk, and Iraq, on the other hand, now that truly hurt.

 

[unmerged(15967)]

And I'm at 10 quality again I think I have lowered it to 9 two times already. What is it with Sweden and all these qaulity rising events? I'm at eternal offensive 10 too, but that doesn't hurt as much since I have built only 1 fortess thoughout the game, too many assaults to keep any fortesses or maufactories anywere anyway . All these wars have destroyed about 7 manufatcories and countless small and medium fortesses ( those I conquered form other nations or got by events)

 

[Damocles]

Originally posted by Peter Ebbesen
Well, I could hold out a few more months, but I deemed it would not be worth it, honestly. Even with full Mughal support [meaning rather more Mughals than I saw in Persia ], it would take at least another two years to clear out the Russians, during which I would receive a fair number of stabhits. Additionally, this would delay my trip to land41 by another five years or so. As such, giving up some four Siberian provinces+500d (that did not cut off my access to the rest of my colonies, which Russia's first many demands attempted to do), seemed the wiser choice.

After all, in purely economic terms, I lost about 60d/year and saved about 140d/stab point, at the cost of zero manpower. As such, their loss is hardly going to traumatise me

The loss of Azerbaijan, Kirkuk, and Iraq, on the other hand, now that truly hurt.

When it became apparent that you were not going to cave and agree to some 80-90% peace, I settled for a 40-50% one pretty readily.

I also don't think it would have been possible for the Persians and Mughals to clear Russia out of the provinces it had taken in two years...I still had plenty of manpower lining up in Samaria.

 

[unmerged(15967)]

Originally posted by Damocles
Gaining Svealand, which is the richest Scandinavian province in manpower and income will do that for you. Afterall, all you lost to Russia was Orthodox Ugric and Russian provinces...Your only BIG loss was Danzig.

Except for those 3 I gave you in the first war already all of my provinces were lutheran, and either state culture or german. And losing ingermanland hurt very much, I used to have a land connection to Jutland

 

[unmerged(5206)]

The Ottomans can call themselves an Empire again after being defeated by the Mughals in the previous session. Roughly one million Ottomans died during the quest for Baghdad and glory. I'm not sure about the Mughal and Persian casualties, but I'm guessing they lost maybe half of that.

The Ottoman Empire, now the Sunni Caliphate after proclaming itself the sole defender of the faith, (re)gained Zanzibar, Iraq, Kirkuk, and Azerbaijan from the Persian-Mughal-Ottoman War. We now sit ready to intervene in the Austro-French War if Venice does not cave into our demands. To put it simply Venice, either Venice immediately gives up Cyprus, Corfu, Crete, and Ionia or face Ottoman intervention in the war. We can dedicate upwards to a million men on the Italian front and a good sized colonial army on the South African front, so think about this carefuly before you spout out a rash refusal.

 

[Damocles]

Originally posted by Fate
The Ottomans can call themselves an Empire again after being defeated by the Mughals in the previous session. Roughly one million Ottomans died during the quest for Baghdad and glory. I'm not sure about the Mughal and Persian casualties, but I'm guessing they lost maybe half of that.

The Ottoman Empire, now the Sunni Caliphate after proclaming itself the sole defender of the faith, (re)gained Zanzibar, Iraq, Kirkuk, and Azerbaijan from the Persian-Mughal-Ottoman War. We now sit ready to intervene in the Austro-French War if Venice does not cave into our demands. To put it simply Venice, either Venice immediately gives up Cyprus, Corfu, Crete, and Ionia or face Ottoman intervention in the war. We can dedicate upwards to a million men on the Italian front and a good sized colonial army on the South African front, so think about this carefuly before you spout out a rash refusal.

Ottoman strength is indeed, /awesome/ at this stage. Second most powerful behind France...

 

[Peter Ebbesen]

Originally posted by Fate
The Ottomans can call themselves an Empire again after being defeated by the Mughals in the previous session. Roughly one million Ottomans died during the quest for Baghdad and glory. I'm not sure about the Mughal and Persian casualties, but I'm guessing they lost maybe half of that.

*SPLUTTERS* HALF THAT??? ARE YOU UTTERLY DERANGED OR MERELY MISLED?

Persian losses 1734-1750. A few losses are due to rebellions, but the only major life-taking action was the Ottoman war of aggression:

Combat: 744K inf, 169K cav
Attrition: 149K inf, 28K cav
Total: 1,090K

If we assume that the Russians wiped out 100K while I was preoccupied in the south, which seems a likely figure, the Ottomans inflicted 900K-1,000K casualties on Persia.

Fighting with a fourteen tech level disadvantage proved more than even Persian manpower could bear

 

[Damocles]

Originally posted by Peter Ebbesen
*SPLUTTERS* HALF THAT??? ARE YOU UTTERLY DERANGED OR MERELY MISLED?

Persian losses 1734-1750. A few losses are due to rebellions, but the only major life-taking action was the Ottoman war of aggression:

Combat: 744K inf, 169K cav
Attrition: 149K inf, 28K cav
Total: 1,090K

If we assume that the Russians wiped out 100K while I was preoccupied in the south, which seems a likely figure, the Ottomans inflicted 900K-1,000K casualties on Persia.

Fighting with a fourteen tech level disadvantage proved more than even Persian manpower could bear

That is an incredibly high combat-attrition ratio.

I probably lost 400k to attrition, storming Siberia.

 

[Peter Ebbesen]

Originally posted by Damocles
Ottoman strength is indeed, /awesome/ at this stage. Second most powerful behind France...

I would argue that the Mughals are more powerful than the Ottomans. They are slightly behind in promoting CCs, admittedly, but they have a substantially higher income, so they are rapidly catching up.

 

[Wyvern]

Originally posted by Peter Ebbesen
Well, I could hold out a few more months, but I deemed it would not be worth it, honestly. Even with full Mughal support [meaning rather more Mughals than I saw in Persia against the Ottomans ]...

I'm hurt Peter, really hurt, and after I let the Ottomans have Zanzibar (which they had ZERO chance of taking after getting their fleet mauled on more than one occasion) to buy you a cheaper peace. I guess 250 to 300k troops just on the Persian front wasn't enough, but then I was busy fighting in Africa and later doing all the work up on the Russian front. Sniff sniff. Hey Mr Ottoman, fancy an alliance?

BTW getting hit by two scaled peasant revolts during that war (12 revolts plus the more keenly felt -3 stab) really didn't help and drew off forces at one particular key time when half of India was going up in smoke and more importantly stopped me minting as much coin as I'd have liked, but hey, these things happen .

 

[Peter Ebbesen]

Originally posted by Damocles
That is an incredibly high combat-attrition ratio.

Well, I was fighting defensively in provinces that could support 100K Persians without attrition most of the time

 

[Damocles]

Originally posted by Peter Ebbesen
I would argue that the Mughals are more powerful than the Ottomans. They are slightly behind in promoting CCs, admittedly, but they have a substantially higher income, so they are rapidly catching up.

Location location location...

Besides...If this is true, one would have thought that the Mughals would make a much bigger impact in the last war.

*suspicious glance at Wyvern*

Also, it will be cool to see the Mughal troops when Wyvern reaches 50. Running around with swords and loose pants is just surreal at this stage.

 

[Peter Ebbesen]

Originally posted by Wyvern
I'm hurt Peter, really hurt, and after I let the Ottomans have Zanzibar (which they had ZERO chance of taking after getting their fleet mauled on more than one occasion) to buy you a cheaper peace. I guess 250 to 300k troops just on the Persian front wasn't enough, but then I was busy fighting in Africa and later doing all the work up on the Russian front. Sniff sniff. Hey Mr Ottoman, fancy an alliance?

Well, if they had arrived at the same time, rather than dribbling in in 50K detachments every four months, at a time when I was burning 50K per month in delaying actions, they might have done more good

Ah, well. 'Twas a good war, and I am happy that we managed to inflict some sort of casualties on the Ottomans