Destiny: A historical RPG campaign

[unmerged(10146)]

Did it sometimes sound as if I have something against Habsburg Empire (or god forbid a player)?

Well, I can assure you that is not the case. And to prove it I would now like to raise an issue that should help HE: perhaps we should edit the HRE title back to Hababurgs.
I really don't know why it happened Oldenburg to get it, perhaps just an oversight of Habsburg diplomacy (not paying enough attention to relations with electors).

Naturally, take a lot of money from HE, as if they were really buying those votes...

 

[kurtbrian]

I think by now its an established fact that you seem to have a slight bias against another player, yes.

 

[String]

I'm sorry for not attending and notifying that was not going to be present. RL troubles

I can do the next weeks session and then I'll be out of town for most of the summer.

 

[BiB]

Yes, I was indeed bored in Portugal - but it was not my idea to switch to Holland, that was something FAL and BiB came up with. I agreed to it because it sounded like more fun, but I did in no way *ask* for it.

And I sure wouldn't have agreed if I had known all the details surrounding the merger, and that I was to get several disadvantages to appease the nay-sayers...

Of course, you did get the edited save beforehand to look at it and you didn't exactly come out saying you didn't want to play with that.

 

[unmerged(18425)]

Of course, you did get the edited save beforehand to look at it and you didn't exactly come out saying you didn't want to play with that.

I told him that on ICQ too. Typical example of Hive realising he has to whine about something once per week, if you ask me. *teases Hive shamelessy*

 

[BiB]

In the mean time, I decided I will not complain any more* about obvious injustices I see, however great sacrifice that is for me .

Let me explain: I come from a province where people are born with seccondary school law diploma and where the only people who don't have at least one law suit going on on the court are... dead people .

Nevertheless, I will not complain about the complete irrationality and lack of any RP or logical reason for Habsburg Empire's inheritance of the whole Portuguese navy, at those days seccond in the world (100 warships and 250 galleys).
Neither will I suggest the logical better solution: if Portugal lost the colonial war against Holland, surelly he must have lost this navy, or at least ended up with the navy considerable smaller than a Dutch one... otherwyse he wouldn't have lost the war...
So I will not suggest Habsburg Empire should have inherited less than 24 warships.
And finally (for now) I will not suggest that Habsburg Empire and Netherlands should have also inherited Portuguese inflaiton, in shares proportional to the number of colonies they got in that edit, because building colonies was the main source of that inflation.

---------------------
* but any less neither

Of course, if the Dutch somehow managed to sink half the Portuguese navy (and let's assume they have been very succesful at it), then they also should have lost many ships. Shall we put the Dutch at -50 warships then?

Of course never mind the fact that in the first place there shouldn't even be a Dutch nation and if there is one it is in no way capable of even taking one colony from Portugal.

Never mind that I currently am losing against France because I lost half my army because of Flamey's antics as Holland which never should have happened in the first place. I expect that army to be edited in right now asap, preferably somewhere around the Pyrenees area. Thanks.

I didn't see Venice take on the Tuscan or Mantuan inflation either when it diploannexed them while happily taking its manufactories, armies and navies. You know, a bit like Spain inheriting Portugal only I didn't get any manufactories.

And just like with every other inheritance and diploannexation, the Portuguese inheritance came with no added inflation to be inherited just like the treasury doesn't get inherited either. Navies do get inherited however. And if inflation should be carried over, why can Holland be free from Spain and not get any of Spain's inflation anyway?

If I didn't have all this crap with Portugal and Holland, Venice never could have taken over half of Italy. I expect this situation to be edited back and rectified asap. Many thanks again.

Or basically, this is all a load of bollox and a very tiresome load at that.

 

[unmerged(18425)]

You raise some good points BiB, but some are less good.

Never mind that I currently am losing against France because I lost half my army because of Flamey's antics as Holland which never should have happened in the first place. I expect that army to be edited in right now asap, preferably somewhere around the Pyrenees area. Thanks.

Considering that I dowed you 6-7 years after start of session you had plenty of time to rebuild any army you lost.
Also, your army was near the support limit at start of session anyway.

The real reason you are losing, is because you lost your HRE title which prevents you from defending your eastern border properly IIRC.

I didn't see Venice take on the Tuscan or Mantuan inflation either when it diploannexed them while happily taking its manufactories, armies and navies. You know, a bit like Spain inheriting Portugal only I didn't get any manufactories.

However when you inherit ingame you get badboy. 1 per province/colony/TP. Spain did not get that, right?

Also, I think Spain is considered as a big bad boy in our game, so perhaps some extra badboy would be justified?

Let's not try to compare this edit to a real inheritance anyway. I again propose to cut the inherited Portuguese navy in half as a compromis.

 

[BiB]

Well, Barnius compared it and keeps comparing it to a real one and you seemingly agreed with some of his points (cut half the navy) so I had to reply in sort.

And those statements you made are rather incorrect.

At the start of the session my army was at about 66% of my support limit. That's a lot of soldiers to make up for in my case. Esp considering my policy is to be OVER the support limit.

HRE title means fuck all really to put it bluntly. I pretty much lost nothing when I lost it. And considering I have military access through Wurttemberg and Baden, even losing the ability to walk through it when at war meant nothing. I could get to the two provinces that are separated there.

It is true however that I couldn't send troops there to defend those 2 segregated provinces but that has a little bit more to do with a couple of 100K Turks crossing the border into Hungary. That's what you get then. I xure could have used another 100K soldiers.

I also took on Austria to keep the game going despite that being a shit job to do and a bad thing for my nation, but hey, people seemed supportive enough, so I went for it. But as it is clear now that people don't seem to care about it anyway, find yourself an Austria because I'm not going to bother with it anymore. If all that can be said about it is of the whining variety anyway, let the whingers find a solution.

 

[kurtbrian]

barnius I believe you said you wouldn't comment....

And I don't blame BiB for getting a wee bit annoyed.
He wasn't the one requeting all those mergers and yet after they happened he gets all sorts of flak.

 

[unmerged(10146)]

barnius I believe you said you wouldn't comment....

And I don't blame BiB for getting a wee bit annoyed.
He wasn't the one requeting all those mergers and yet after they happened he gets all sorts of flak.

OK, deleted.
I just couldn't resist in pointing out the obvious differences between Venetian troubles in gaining some territory in Italy and "inheritance" of Portugal.

If you read my comments you will find out that I didn't complain much against merger of Spain and Austria and that I for quite some time advocate not to sepparate them. Ever.

I did complain against merger of Portugal and Habeburg Empire, but it is done now. Perhaps could have been done in a more balanced way, but that is up to others to advocate and decide.

 

[unmerged(18425)]

Well, Barnius compared it and keeps comparing it to a real one and you seemingly agreed with some of his points (cut half the navy) so I had to reply in sort.

The navy issue found some support with others, not only Barnius. As you might notice, I also only paid attention to the naval issue, not to the inflation or or other proposed stuff.

The naval issue was the only logical one in my opinion, since it's weird to assume Portugal has an intact navy, while she did lose half of her colonies.

At the start of the session my army was at about 66% of my support limit. That's a lot of soldiers to make up for in my case. Esp considering my policy is to be OVER the support limit.

Okay, the stats told me you had 350K troops and I assumed it was close to your support limit, if not over it.

I wasn't aware your support limit was that big

HRE title means fuck all really to put it bluntly. I pretty much lost nothing when I lost it. And considering I have military access through Wurttemberg and Baden, even losing the ability to walk through it when at war meant nothing. I could get to the two provinces that are separated there.

It is true however that I couldn't send troops there to defend those 2 segregated provinces but that has a little bit more to do with a couple of 100K Turks crossing the border into Hungary. That's what you get then. I xure could have used another 100K soldiers.

I assumed you lost the MA through Wurttemburg, Baden and other HRE nations when you lost the title. I assumed this because you did not send solders to those territories.

Fred, it looks like you did a good job

Now, my heart weeps for your lost soldiers, but a Spain like yours could easily rebuild them in the 6-7 years you got since session start.

While it is probably true you aren't losing because of the lost HRE title, you are also not losing because you lost some soldiers against Flamey 8 years ago.

I also took on Austria to keep the game going despite that being a shit job to do and a bad thing for my nation, but hey, people seemed supportive enough, so I went for it. But as it is clear now that people don't seem to care about it anyway, find yourself an Austria because I'm not going to bother with it anymore. If all that can be said about it is of the whining variety anyway, let the whingers find a solution.

No one said anything about Austria since last session, did they?

I agree you got too much flack because you were merged with Austria. I agree people shouldn't mention this so often. But I also think this discussion is now pure about the Portuguese inheritance.

As I said Austria will be split from Spain near 1700. I will do my best to find a player then.

By the way, am I the only one finding it a bit ironically that Spain thinks Austria is bad for her and others thinking it's good for Spain?

 

[BiB]

The navy issue found some support with others, not only Barnius. As you might notice, I also only paid attention to the naval issue, not to the inflation or or other proposed stuff.

The naval issue was the only logical one in my opinion, since it's weird to assume Portugal has an intact navy, while she did lose half of her colonies.



Okay, the stats told me you had 350K troops and I assumed it was close to your support limit, if not over it.

I wasn't aware your support limit was that big



I assumed you lost the MA through Wurttemburg, Baden and other HRE nations when you lost the title. I assumed this because you did not send solders to those territories.

Fred, it looks like you did a good job

Now, my heart weeps for your lost soldiers, but a Spain like yours could easily rebuild them in the 6-7 years you got since session start.

While it is probably true you aren't losing because of the lost HRE title, you are also not losing because you lost some soldiers against Flamey 8 years ago.



No one said anything about Austria since last session, did they?

I agree you got too much flack because you were merged with Austria. I agree people shouldn't mention this so often. But I also think this discussion is now pure about the Portuguese inheritance.

As I said Austria will be split from Spain near 1700. I will do my best to find a player then.

By the way, am I the only one finding it a bit ironically that Spain thinks Austria is bad for her and others thinking it's good for Spain?

And as the only one who has actually played it, I think I know what I am talking about

Just like I am the only one who knows how I would have steered my nation had it not been for Flamey. It made a HUGE difference that I still suffer the consequences from now. Which is why I was so pissed about that whole charade.

Well, I will graciously also take on Portugal's colonies then to sort the navy issue. There, another solution. Hive can play Austria then.

(Oh, and according to the stats from the end of last save, I had 250K andpeople always seem to think that just because you have a bit of money you can do anything I please, well, you can't.)

I don't think so much would be made about Portugal if I didn't also have Austria, wouldn't you agree?

 

[unmerged(10146)]

I don't think so much would be made about Portugal if I didn't also have Austria, wouldn't you agree?

Barnius' analitic half of split personality (the other part is, naturally, ironic propagande machine) ansvering:

"Since 99% of the complaints came from Barnius (both halfs), and since he doesn't care at all about land navies, you are wrong. What matters is Habsburg insane naval support limit of probably 900 ships , for which Austrian port of Istria isn't really important."

 

[BiB]

When Alva walked into Italy with those land navies, that wasn't exactly the word coming out of Venice. Or (hadn't Flamey pulled his stunt) when Farnese would have walked its land navies against Venice, I think the tune also would have been somewhat differently.

 

[DSYoungEsq]

When Alva walked into Italy with those land navies, that wasn't exactly the word coming out of Venice. Or (hadn't Flamey pulled his stunt) when Farnese would have walked its land navies against Venice, I think the tune also would have been somewhat differently.

Why bother, BiB? You are evil! Admit it. The first step to being healed is to want the cure.

 

[K'shar]

Players drop like flies these days.

How probably is your withdrawal K'shar?

Near future: I can keep playing but i'd like to be able to contribute to debates, inter-session diplomacy and AAR writing more then I seem able to.

Future: I'll most likely have to leave as per complications in everyday life, still seeing how things pan out. But the portuguese misshap is an example of why it can be akward even now.

Also, Barnius I hope you now see the purpose of my post your pushing Bib practically out of the game.

 

[unmerged(7276)]

Could you clarify if you will leave or not kshar. Id very much like you to continue as i enjoy playing along side you but need to be sure who im playing next session.

Also i have lot of sypathy for BIBs situation. Although i was against the whole hapsburg empire thing part of this objection was for the benifit of the player.1 because its a whole lot of management for 1 brain. 2 because a merged spain austria is weaker than having them seperate. Can we give the complains a little rest if possible.

 

[Slargos]

I agree with K'shar.

Barnius, you're over the top.

A little Barniosity can be amusing and endearing. What you're doing now is pushing everyone's patience.

I for one would much sooner see you dropped from the game than you driving BiB to wits' end and him quitting.

If you can't tone down, I think you should go ahead and quit like you threatened to last time.

That, btw, goes for all of you.

I'm tired of this quitting bullshit.

If you want to quit, quit. Don't gab about it. I for one will be playnig this game as long as there's at least one more player willing to play it with me.

If we drop to 10, 8 or even 6 players, I will keep playing.

Don't be such melodramatic selfish bastards.

 

[Hive]

Yeah, let's stop being mean to poor Bibbi. Not his fault that we lack players and have to seek out alternative ways of filling those voids.

Besides, it's all FAL's fault.

 

[BiB]

I blame WoW, many a good RP'ing AAR writer that would have been greatly suited for such a game has been lost to it.

Now it's great to hear from Slargos about how he'll keep playing on no matter what, even if down to 2, and that can certainly make for a fun game (I have one ongoing myself on the side), but for a game in which rather historical, roleplay oriented play with good AAR writing is the aim, I'd say 6 players is a bit few, I'm afraid.

I already was quite sad we couldn't get a real player for the pope initially, and now we don't even have an Austria, Portugal, Denmark and potentially Brandenburg also too now, all of which I deem rather instrumental for such a game. The bottom line is players, we seriously lack them, I lost count how many we lost already.

I've been talking to some players and then to FAL about it, personal issues aside here, we need to get a lineup or crew that we can rely on and can guarantee to be present for considerable time to come. While I would hate to see it end, I'd hate it even more if we played on for a bit, invested time in it and then see it fall apart anyway.

And that it is going to fall apart is a sentiment I have heard being uttered quite a few times the last few days during conversations. Given we already had to merge several nations and are looking at having to merge even more, I don't see a brilliant future in the way of finding new players. I don't think we're going anywhere without those ...

Besides, it's all Hive's mod's fault, because of that we can't find any new people!

/Darth BiB