The name list we got from Johan includes three different kinds of military stations. If you want you can count the oversized one as the fourth, but ships would then have five, I guess...
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Despotic Empire - Perks pretty bad?
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The name list we got from Johan includes three different kinds of military stations. If you want you can count the oversized one as the fourth, but ships would then have five, I guess...
So I see how Despotic Empire could be a fairly powerful government form.
The one that appears quite weak to me is Science Directorate... that government only gives one additional research alternative. I plan to give it a shot after I've tried a couple of other builds, just to see if it is as weak as it looks.
The one that appears quite weak to me is Science Directorate... that government only gives one additional research alternative. I plan to give it a shot after I've tried a couple of other builds, just to see if it is as weak as it looks.
That is actually pretty huge, and stacks with similar increases from tech. Better odds on getting what you want when you want it is a pretty significant advantage, especially from the start of the game. Even ignoring the increased choice available, it also increases the odds of rare tech. (If each card is randomized with the full set of weighted options. If the hand as a whole is randomized as a group, this may not be true, but that seems odd)
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Fairly sure when placing the first one they pointed out that these stations need to be apart form one another. I.e building multiple together wont be possible if that is true. You can build several in the same sector still but the enemy would just engage them one at a time dramatically lowering their effectiveness.
So basically ONE and only ONE way to profit from these perks and not have them be a huge waste. Which they might end up being anyway depending on how all of this plays out in live, with slave factions and such.
The Despotic Empire in Stellaris is the closests to an old school Monarchy/Earth Empire one can get given the government forms. How many slaves were there again in most of thse, especially those who endured up untill WW I? Not many, because they were goddamn ineffective and they sure as hell weren't build on them. There's a whole bunch of options for basically every other type of government, for this one? Not so much.
There's one in every column. The other one being the indirect democracy. Meanwhile there is a single one where not some voting process or random guy will end up as successor.
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In a game with random research how do you not see more control over your research as a major bonus?
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Despotic empire is fairly decent for the early game. +10% food and minerals in addition to the regular slavery benefits are fairly nice. +only paying 85% of the building costs is really nice as well. Later on the bonus doubles, and can be combined with share the burden for a nice +40% minerals and food.
It does look like despotic empire has a real benefit when it comes to grabbing those early planets fast and effectively. combine it with fanatic collectivist, Talented leaders and thrifty for a really fast early game.
It does look like despotic empire has a real benefit when it comes to grabbing those early planets fast and effectively. combine it with fanatic collectivist, Talented leaders and thrifty for a really fast early game.
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Having an old style monarchy (mind you, old style is when the nobility ruled and owned everything worth owning) really did have slaves.
I think you are limiting your definition of slaves for some reason.
The farmers working the nobles lands were certainly not free people for a big part of history.
In Denmark, they were bound to the land up until 1800.
No, they didn't have chains or worked the cotton fields...
But they sure as hell didn't have freedom either.
I think you are limiting your definition of slaves for some reason.
The farmers working the nobles lands were certainly not free people for a big part of history.
In Denmark, they were bound to the land up until 1800.
No, they didn't have chains or worked the cotton fields...
But they sure as hell didn't have freedom either.
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Because a rng advantage can turn into nothing or a negative also.
You can have 4 choices and your neighbour can have 3.
Because of rng it is possible that you end up researching exactly the same.
In worse case, your neighbour can end up getting better choices in his 3 picks everytime, which means he would have better tech and your advantage is worth nothing.
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The odds of this happening over any extended period of time is miniscule and you have conveniently discounted the 5% research bonus...
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The Blorg military station that we saw get trashed, was trashed by a fairly formidable force. Remember that the Blorg themselves had their southern fleets wiped out by the Quell-Nadar portion of the Just League. Had the Quell-Nadar not collapsed into civil war, they may well have invaded the Blorg's southern reaches.
As such, I think it's not true to say that military stations are useless. It is, however, probably true to say that if something can defeat your fleets in space then they can also defeat your military stations. That sounds like pretty good balance to me.
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The fortresses had a strength of 4k. Bear in mind the Just (a bunch on meanies) League was normally sending 4k stacks as raiders, an oversized station might well be very good, even if it only gets good once you research fortresses.
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Like every government, perks for despotic empire are excellent for particular playstyle.
In order to maximize those benefits, you are supposed to be either collectivist or xenophobe, or both. The game does not look that hard, you can always just not min-max, and roleplay for your own pleasure. Or play on Easy difficulty.
The problem is not that despotic empire is geared toward using slaves, but that there is no individualist monarchy, because a lot of people want to play monarchy without slaves (but not those wimpy pacifist "enlightened monarchies" either).
I'd divide "basic" three governments into individualist and collectivist variants.
individualist monarchy: "benevolent absolutism" (think Andermani Empire. Manticore is too democratic to qualify)
collectivist monarchy: "despotic empire" (any cliche evil empire working slaves to death)
individualist oligarchy: "plutocratic oligarchy" (takeover by military-industrial complex)
collectivist oligarchy: "vanguard party" (any marxist/fascist one-party state)
individualist democracy: "indirect democracy"
collectivist democracy: "peoples republic" (a "pink" regime. kinda like Sweden)
So yeah, it would solve problem of people wanting to be individualist monarchies or collectivist democracies.
In order to maximize those benefits, you are supposed to be either collectivist or xenophobe, or both. The game does not look that hard, you can always just not min-max, and roleplay for your own pleasure. Or play on Easy difficulty.
The problem is not that despotic empire is geared toward using slaves, but that there is no individualist monarchy, because a lot of people want to play monarchy without slaves (but not those wimpy pacifist "enlightened monarchies" either).
I'd divide "basic" three governments into individualist and collectivist variants.
individualist monarchy: "benevolent absolutism" (think Andermani Empire. Manticore is too democratic to qualify)
collectivist monarchy: "despotic empire" (any cliche evil empire working slaves to death)
individualist oligarchy: "plutocratic oligarchy" (takeover by military-industrial complex)
collectivist oligarchy: "vanguard party" (any marxist/fascist one-party state)
individualist democracy: "indirect democracy"
collectivist democracy: "peoples republic" (a "pink" regime. kinda like Sweden)
So yeah, it would solve problem of people wanting to be individualist monarchies or collectivist democracies.
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They could also make the "use a construction ship to build wormhole stations everywhere" tactic very hard - at least as long they have the snare installed - as the enemy would need to destroy your stations before he can send in a construction ship, an act you most likely will notice
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This seems similar to my suggestion which included taking out the forced autocracy of collectivism and forced democracy of individualism and putting them in their own new ethos axis.
[From https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/splitting-ethos-into-6-axes.924367/]
In this suggestion though I also made suggestions for 5 new government types (plutocratic oligarchy would be individualist oligarchy):
With 'Individulistic' governments:
Competitive Rule (democratic):
"Several overlapping governments compete with one another for citizens by offering different rights, laws and taxes".
+/- Increased migration (people vote with their feet
+ Increased happiness (everyone gets the government they want, or at least something close to it)
+ Reduced planetary edict cost
Plutocratic oligarchy (as current) [oligarchic]
Mobile Hierarchy [Autocratic]
"Upon reaching maturity, people are expected to fend for themselves. Rulership is usually given to whoever manages to take it, by cunning, intelligence, charisma or strength of arms."
+ Increased governor, ruler staring level
+/- On ruler removal, the new leader may be chosen from one of the existing goveners
+/- Rulers and governors are sometimes pushed out of office by a rival (gives and automatically appoints a new leader.
+ more leaders (fewer than peaceful bureaucracy though)
Can build an oversized Statue (giving influence)
And the generic oligarchy becomes aristocratic oligarchy or something?
And 'Collectivist' governments:
Local Assemblies [democratic]
"Decisions are taken on a local level by a meeting of all the citizens at regular intervals. Everyone's perspectives are heard and the best course of action for everyone is voted upon"
+ Increased number of sectors
+ Reduced unrest in sectors
Meritocratic Hierarchy [oligarchic]
"People are promoted based on competence until they reach the limit of their abilities. Someone promoted beyond their competency is demoted (though the stigma for this is on the one who promoted them unduly)"
+/- Increased effect of positive species traits and of ruler traits (including bad ruler traits)
+ increased bonus from leader level
United Society [autocratic]
"Everyone is assigned a role based upon their abilities and the demand for a job. The best scientists think. The best warriors fight. The best ruler rules."
+ Increased food output from slaves
+ Reduced ethics divergence
Can build an oversized Planetary Administration (additional tier, giving its bonus to adjacent tiles of adjacent tiles).
what do you think wrt how they compare with your suggestions?
Spec your own race for energy and or reserch bonuses, be on the look out for alien slaves with a bonus to minerals or food production. Best of both worlds here.
Yes, but they also showed that you can still stack them in the same system. You just can't build loads next to each other. They can be mutually supportive with long range weapons and especially with strike craft.
Also note the FTL capture device that the stations all have as a default choice (there are other though). With that device, you should be able to design defences that keep the defense stations between the spaceports/planets and any attackers.
You could build it something like this:
Edge of system.
Fortress with FTL Blocker.
A few tier 2 stations within range of the fortress but using other devices.
A few cheap tier 1 platforms, you could put hangers on them (presumably) and they can support from very long range, as strike craft appear to be insystem capable small 'ships' as opposed to things like a torpedo with a max range.
Spaceport
Planet
That will be a big investment but for core systems it will be worth it. Less important systems can do a similar thing with tier 1 & 2 platforms.
The dev stream has woefully defended systems, the Just League blew up both spaceports in the Qirbus system, and could easily have wiped out the blorg homeworld sector to boot.
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Its okay. I like mine better because it does not require reworking entire ethos, just adding three new government types.
Y
Yeah, multiple defence platforms in mutual support
We have seen in the streams there was a Module that attracted ships arriving by FTL so they arrived by the station, and another module that inhibited warping away.
Seems like you can create a killing zone, where you will have a station to draw the enemy task group to when they arrive out of FTL that will be in the middle of mutual zones of fire from long range weapons platforms and their retreat will be inhibited
Yeah, multiple defence platforms in mutual support
We have seen in the streams there was a Module that attracted ships arriving by FTL so they arrived by the station, and another module that inhibited warping away.
Seems like you can create a killing zone, where you will have a station to draw the enemy task group to when they arrive out of FTL that will be in the middle of mutual zones of fire from long range weapons platforms and their retreat will be inhibited
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Fair enough. It requires adding 6 though, since they'd need to add 3 more default types.