Desperate attempt to attack USSR

[unmerged(80023)]

Hello, I also posted this on the TRP-forum, but to get as much tips as possible, I will post it here aswell. Hope anybody is bothered to read the full post and assist me...

I should mention that I'm playing the Doomsday 0.91 TRP version, so I hope there's still people outthere who haven't been able to upgrade to Armageddon (like me) and still play the Doomsday version.

Ok, things is, I'm starting to get desperate. I'm unable to push into russia for more than 5 or 6 provinces. I've got 3 big armies commanded by fieldmarshalls (von Leeb, von Bock, von Rundstedt with +/- 18-24 divs with HQ) which are covered by 6 armoured/motorized divs from 2 or more provinces, sometimes more depending on the commanding officer. I have 12-16 TAC and CAS on interdiction mode which are supported by 6-8 interceptors. Got about 4 seperate HQ's supporting troops from behind the frontlines, and about 5 or 6 reserve 3-div-korps to cover any problems...

It takes ages before I've punched a hole (if the russians don't stack it with 30+ dvis, which they do), and then when I do, the Russians immediatly cover up a new line, and again it takes AGES before I conquer the next province. Russians keep stacking the provinces I attack, then retreat and start stacking the next province I attack. I have NO idea how to do encirclements this way, because 3 russian div's easily manage to withstand 6 german div's.

It is the end of july now (started 3 jun '41), and I've managed to conquer 4 provinces, 1 of which will probably soon fall as my 13 divs there are under attack from 38 russian divs. I'm sorry, but this is way above my head for some reason. Why? How do you guys manage to encircle 50 divs, when I can't push far enough to encircle even 1 province?? USSR north seems a bit easier, however, advancing north will eventually stretch the front to long for me to manage... Additionally, especially southern Russia seems like an unbreakable front...

I've run over Poland, Norway was very easy, Lowlands/France was easy and Yugoslavia was also easy... But now I'm just stuck. Tried it atleast 5 times in a row, but I have no idea how to handle the USSR. I've read all the tips here, more than once, but I still ain't getting through.

Why? Can anybody please explain the encirclements, or breakthrough's, as I don't seem to understand. My previous way of encircling doesn't work, because my ARM/MOT/CAV etc. can't push through a created hole without meeting lots of Russian div's immediatly after I've conquered a province.

I do believe the key is in the encirclements for me................... Also another question: if an army-group of 9 divs (under fieldmarschall) has 1 engineering brigade, will this influence the other div's, or just the 1 div in the army-group which has the engineering brigade?

Thanks in advance to anybody for a helping hand.

 

[TroelsPoul]

Well, I have only ever succeeded in encirclements far behind the front against the USSR: Attack somewhere unexpected, like Archangelsk, then drive all the way around Moscow and into the Caucasus. This is possible since the capital is moved eastward for protection...

Similar results can be achieved if you concentrate forces enough. Just exploit the long combat times when placing defenders, and drive for some distant ocean.

Paratroopers are also great for encirclements! (Read: drop them in places where they will not be attacked) - Note the low manpower cost.

Then again I usually do not play Germany, and you most likely read sillyness before o

Regarding the engineers, I suppose no, but would like to know.

 

[unmerged(85184)]

I have the very same problem, playing with SU. At first I thought that I just organized the defence well, but germans now can't do anything, they're just standing in the provinces and that's all, when they attack they can't win. The same for me. It's March 1944 now and I got just 2 provinces back as a result of my counterattack, but it was like 120 SU divisions vs 20 german, so...
And I loaded the savegame with Brazil and just let the show go on, and... in 2 months germans were near Moscow, Stalingrad and St.Petersburg.
It seems to me that AI can only play with itself well and is actually designed to do so (remember, we're talking about GER-USSR war only)!

 

[Lothos]

big different between TRP v0.91 and TRP v0.92 when it comes to the soviet german war.

 

[unmerged(85184)]

I'm playing v0.92 with AA1.1 and have the very same problem, so...

 

[Minodrin]

Yeah. I just ran headfirst into the Soviet Brick Wall.
Now my new strategy is to outproduce the damn Soviets. I have 800 manpower and c. 515 IC, they have 213 and c. 380 IC. Should be doable...

 

[Hallsten]

Yeah. I just ran headfirst into the Soviet Brick Wall.
Now my new strategy is to outproduce the damn Soviets. I have 800 manpower and c. 515 IC, they have 213 and c. 380 IC. Should be doable...

Guess how much they have...and how quickly they build their INF...

 

[unmerged(85184)]

Yeah. I just ran headfirst into the Soviet Brick Wall.
Now my new strategy is to outproduce the damn Soviets. I have 800 manpower and c. 515 IC, they have 213 and c. 380 IC. Should be doable...

800 manpower is not enough! If you really want to outproduce them, you should have like 80 divisions in each province or sth like that! And that's almost impossible, because of lack of resources.

 

[Minodrin]

As I said, 213 manpower. At least that's what I understood from reading the save-game file (that the soviets have). They have c. 350 divisions I think, while I have about half that (although much more tank divisions). And they outnumber me 2-1 in airpower too.

Where the hell am I going to scrounge up manpower from, eh? I already have a man of the people minister, 1941 agri-tech in 1941. And IIRC Guderian is not available yet. So?

 

[Hallsten]

As I said, 213 manpower. At least that's what I understood from reading the save-game file (that the soviets have). They have c. 350 divisions I think, while I have about half that (although much more tank divisions). And they outnumber me 2-1 in airpower too.

Where the hell am I going to scrounge up manpower from, eh? I already have a man of the people minister, 1941 agri-tech in 1941. And IIRC Guderian is not available yet. So?

Strike hard and fast, cause they will get more manpower by event...ooooh so much more...

Regarding YOUR manpower you're pretty much stuck where you are. Keep enough to allow you to reinforce your divs to 100% if damaged and keep encircling enemy armies to even the score. It's not easy...

 

[Minodrin]

Really, will they get more manpower? If I read the events correctly, the USSR must have lost 8% of their area to me to trigger the Great Patriotic War. And that event is necessary for the 1942-46 mobilization events to trigger.

Now, if I could get 8% of the country I'd be glad. But right now I'd be happy to keep the old, Brest-Litovsk border...

 

[Hallsten]

Really, will they get more manpower? If I read the events correctly, the USSR must have lost 8% of their area to me to trigger the Great Patriotic War. And that event is necessary for the 1942-46 mobilization events to trigger.

Now, if I could get 8% of the country I'd be glad. But right now I'd be happy to keep the old, Brest-Litovsk border...

I thought you had moved beyond your peacetime border, but if you haven't then there will be no reinforcements.
So you're basically standing face to face with the Russians along your Molotov/Ribbentrop border?

 

[Minodrin]

I am at the peacetime border basically. I mean, it's a fucking wall of flesh and steel. Not the easiest things to push trough.

In 1941 I managed to get Stryj and Lvov in the south, but I was pushed back from Lvov to the original border. I managed to stabilize the southern frontier after that, and it's now mid 1943 and my reinforcement corps are running here and there, keeping it safe.

In the north it's been more fluid. I advanced several provinces there, but was pushed back to a gain of one province (at the cost of Memel). In 1942 I landed in Riga (which was undefended), and trough massive use of force, was able to capture c. 60 divisions in a Kurland pocket. The rest of 1942 was a bitch with the Russians sending millions of men to break the siege (did I mention that the pocket got supplies and was a full fighting strength, which I did not anticipate).

Winter 42 was easier than the summer, although they still kept attacking (at an increasing pace as spring came nearer). When the mud went out I attacked that pocket with everything I could. I waited for them to assault Riga first, then I flanked them (in that province south of Riga), and attacked with superior forces, including S.S. Panzer divisons) Memel. I also sent my tac-bomber forces to bomb that pocket (about 25 squadrons). And did an amphibious landing as they left the innermost province empty.

Yeah, it was a real bitch as Memel kept getting supplies, but after some time I broke them. Now to send my extra 58 divisions to keep the line. Otherwise it will crack.

If anyone wants to know how this will end, here it is.

I'll survive the summer of 43, possibly even extending the frontline a bit in the north. In 44 I'll attack some place, and maybe get limited gains. Possibly I shall free Estonia. In 1945 I'll just sit tight, and wait for my lovely, lovely nukes to come about. Yeah, 3-5 of those biches and the USSR is so whacked.

 

[Minodrin]

Hmm, it appears I was looking at the event for an AI Germany. The event against a human Germany only requires the loss of 1% of the country.

Oh well. The bomb will save Germany! Nuclear Weapons for Nazi Germany, FTW!

PS. Now I really wish I had built a fleet, taken Britain, and wait one or two more years...

 

[Hallsten]

In my experience you have to have a running start to defeat the Russians, don't even let them dig in. In the first compaigns I played I started building a sizeable BB-fleet before Barbarossa, something that cost me the victory in the east for sure. Nowadays I only build for Barbarossa after France has been defeated.
When late spring 1941 comes I try to have 20-25 vanilla ARM divs (and ~300k oil to go along with it) and I make sure to be at the forefront of research to make sure that at least some of my INFs are upgraded to '41 by late 1941 (this is probably excessive, but then again I do win the war ).

When the war starts make sure that you strike fast and strike hard. Make sure you defend the entire frontline, but don't overdo it. Remember that when you've punched through and managed to advance into enemy territory the AI will start to re-inforce their defences and counter-attack at your frontlines rather than attack you elsewhere.
I usually strike in southern Poland, since the area around Lvov is the only area that combines a river-free approach with plains, and continue to pocket everything between Dnepr(?), the Pripet marshes and the Black Sea.

I usually assume control of the Axis minors and use them to defend the southern border, since that's the only way to actually get then to do something.

EDIT: Regarding the Bomb, it's absolutely devastating. Playing as the USSR I dropped two on the USA, and the country immediately went to 100% RR in all provinces. After a few months California and the CSA revolted...

 

[Minodrin]

In my experience you have to have a running start to defeat the Russians, don't even let them dig in. In the first compaigns I played I started building a sizeable BB-fleet before Barbarossa, something that cost me the victory in the east for sure. Nowadays I only build for Barbarossa after France has been defeated.
When late spring 1941 comes I try to have 20-25 vanilla ARM divs (and ~300k oil to go along with it) and I make sure to be at the forefront of research to make sure that at least some of my INFs are upgraded to '41 by late 1941 (this is probably excessive, but then again I do win the war ).

When the war starts make sure that you strike fast and strike hard. Make sure you defend the entire frontline, but don't overdo it. Remember that when you've punched through and managed to advance into enemy territory the AI will start to re-inforce their defences and counter-attack at your frontlines rather than attack you elsewhere.
I usually strike in southern Poland, since the area around Lvov is the only area that combines a river-free approach with plains, and continue to pocket everything between Dnepr(?), the Pripet marshes and the Black Sea.

I usually assume control of the Axis minors and use them to defend the southern border, since that's the only way to actually get then to do something.

EDIT: Regarding the Bomb, it's absolutely devastating. Playing as the USSR I dropped two on the USA, and the country immediately went to 100% RR in all provinces. After a few months California and the CSA revolted...

Yes, I did manage to break trough on my main thrusts, but I lacked the divisions to keep an armoured spearhead and defend my new provinces. So now I have to fight against a Patriotic War Russia with all of it's IC and MP until c. 1947 when I'll have enough nukes to win come hell or high water. If my interceptors can keep the skies clean of bombers wanting to destroy the Potsdam reactor.

Oh well, it will be an interesting time at least.

Btw, I think the problem with nukes is that the city provinces have huge manpower values. Isn't the dissident effect of a nuke half of the combined manpower and IC value of a province?

 

[unmerged(80023)]

Ok, I've done some breakthrough's and some major encirclements, however, this still takes far too long for me. I wasn't able to secure Odessa before winter, and am fighting russians that were 'pocketed' next to the romanian border and russians coming from Rostov...

Still learning, but on the other hand, I conquered Poland completly before the Russians even had time to declare war on Poland... So I guess I'll be getting there...

Eventually.