Designing traits

[Dug]

This isn't a technical question as much as it is a design sort of question. I always wanted to get into modding and Stellaris seems easy enough, I figure something easy is just the right ice breaker for me while I pursue my software engineering degree. None the less I've made a couple of traits even done a little rookie editing in GIMP but as I got to crafting the traits I've begun to wonder...

What would a regular player define as a "decent" and "balanced" trait?

A friend of mine recommended a -4 trait. It didn't take me long to create it. Yet as I crafted it I instantly realized the player was left with 6 trait points of which he could use those to obtain agrarian, industrious and thrifty all at the same time because the player already starts with the initial 2 trait points. I found this to be incredibly imbalanced and so I took it down to -3, there for making it mandatory to select another negative trait in case they want to get all the resource producing traits.

This lead me to consider:

What would a regular player define as "bad" trait mod?
Is too many traits on the list a bad thing?
Would you prefer the traits to be in line with standard Stellaris traits or just piled at the end?

I quickly noticed it's easy to go overboard with these and that some forethought must be put into designing them. In which case variety doesn't seem to be the spice of Stellaris traits, at least in my opinion. I personally focused on more expensive negative traits as Stellaris currently lacks them and ran myself by one rule: "the trait mustn't be ridiculous". You might think this to be a very subjective rule to apply, and you'd be damn right to assume so. Which is why I'm posting this thread.

 

[Fisk]

To answer the specific questions first:
No, I don't think too many traits on the list is a bad thing. More variety is better variety.
I'd prefer the traits to be grouped up based on what they do, rather than where they're from. Ie strong/very strong/weak being piled together, and similar.

In general I find the game needs a few more expensive traits, ie +/- 2-4 points. The whole point (as far as I'm concerned) is to make different species more varied, and in my view 15% more or less of a specific resource doesn't accomplish that. And a few ridiculous ones doesn't hurt, does it? Add a huge advantage along with an equally huge disadvantage, and it's all good in my book. As long as there's an ingame explanation for both parts.

 

[Dug]

Thanks for the reply, there was a tumbleweed too many here for a moment.

So as far as I noticed, the only way to keep the traits in line is to make it incompatible with most other trait mods that might use the same method which is to say: keep the original list and add your own traits to it in their respective orders (unless I'm missing something). Such as very weak, as you've mentioned. Hence the question!

I'd agree with you about the expensive traits, which is why I've begun making the mod in the first place. Though I am worried of the advantages an expensive -4 mod might bring to one empire. Imagine an empire spawns, takes all the resource gathering traits and finds a couple of 20+ slot planets. I feel like there'd be a firm lack of balance there or am I disillusioned with how things would actually play out? As I write this I subtly come to gather it isn't necessarily so, though I feel the reason Stellaris traits are so in line with each other is to prevent "total chaos".

One thing that comes to mind is that a player might check his opponents traits more often with a larger variety. One thing concerns me and that's overwhelming the player. When is too much, -too much-?

 

[Fisk]

Thanks for the reply, there was a tumbleweed too many here for a moment.

So as far as I noticed, the only way to keep the traits in line is to make it incompatible with most other trait mods that might use the same method which is to say: keep the original list and add your own traits to it in their respective orders (unless I'm missing something). Such as very weak, as you've mentioned. Hence the question!

I'd agree with you about the expensive traits, which is why I've begun making the mod in the first place. Though I am worried of the advantages an expensive -4 mod might bring to one empire. Imagine an empire spawns, takes all the resource gathering traits and finds a couple of 20+ slot planets. I feel like there'd be a firm lack of balance there or am I disillusioned with how things would actually play out? As I write this I subtly come to gather it isn't necessarily so, though I feel the reason Stellaris traits are so in line with each other is to prevent "total chaos".

One thing that comes to mind is that a player might check his opponents traits more often with a larger variety. One thing concerns me and that's overwhelming the player. When is too much, -too much-?

Balance doesn't matter all that much to me; some species might be better suited for growing into a galaxy-spanning superpower, and then it'd be harder to knock them down a peg. As long as the AI stands a chance of picking OP traits as well, and it's not just the player.

The full list might become overwhelming at some point, but I don't think anyone will know where that point is until they hit it (fear of that might be another reason to focus on big game-changers). And while it might take a while to pick the traits you want, once you're in the game you'll know that nothing you encounter will have more than 5-or-whatever-the-limit-is traits, so by then it shouldn't be too big a deal to look them through.