• Crusader Kings III Available Now!

    The realm rejoices as Paradox Interactive announces the launch of Crusader Kings III, the latest entry in the publisher’s grand strategy role-playing game franchise. Advisors may now jockey for positions of influence and adversaries should save their schemes for another day, because on this day Crusader Kings III can be purchased on Steam, the Paradox Store, and other major online retailers.


    Real Strategy Requires Cunning

Wraith11B

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Yes, unfortunately it turns out sorting out a navy AI is hard work. I think they do manage a somewhat better job in HoI4, but it is a very low bar and it is very much a qualified improvement
Were I in charge of a "Darkest Hour" revisit of HoI3, I would bring in individual destroyer/subs, a more rationalized method to how the AI should distribute their IC, etc. And fix a litany of issues that I've come across.

It does make for an interesting writing challenge, and I've enjoyed how you've written around it :)
Thank you, sir. I appreciate being able to impress the naval minded.

In case useful for the future, the Denmark Strait is located between Greenland and Iceland. Confusion over its location, given its name, is easily understood :) I'm not as confident, but I'm fairly sure that unlike the shallow seas around Denmark, the depth of the Denmark Strait is such that sunk ships are unlikely to cause much trouble to passing ships.
I... I literally have no excuse. Should have been more circumspect!

While the game system and AI handling may be sub-optimal (ahem) the narrative is compelling. A good job there to recreate largely from notes and the technical description of the naval manoeuvres and damage reports imagined for the engagements was entertaining.

And of course one of those bodacious graphics to kick things off. Bravo.
I have to admit revisiting how the graphic was put together at least twice... first realizing that much of the information in the game screenshots could be dispensed with, then realizing that I also wanted to put their rough locations on the map... and realizing that I needed ssssymbolism. So I ran off to my unit symbol generator and lo-and-behold, a miracle! Found just what I needed.

I'm glad that the storyline works. There were actual plans to strap massive bulges to the Royal Sovereign and to take off two of her turrets to reduce her draught. Guess they didn't need that here.

4 Battleships down, I'm sure they'll be replaced in no time...

It's not surprising the Royal Navy is redeploying all it's forces to the Atlantic. This is the most dangerous German Navy they've ever faced, and it was built right under their noses... The empire is doomed.
Coughs. Yep. Completely replaced. No time at all! :rolleyes::confused:

Interesting that you should mention that... o_O
 

TheButterflyComposer

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This is the sort of thing that would absolutely bring down a UK government. Losing so many battleships to the shitty German navy in a stupid attempt to save the polish navy? Whomever signed off on that is going to be given a single shot pistol and a cigarette.
 

Wraith11B

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This is the sort of thing that would absolutely bring down a UK government. Losing so many battleships to the shitty German navy in a stupid attempt to save the polish navy? Whomever signed off on that is going to be given a single shot pistol and a cigarette.
For sure. OTL, the British lost 3 BB, 2 BC, 5 CVs and 28 CA/CLs. This loss was basically all of the capital ships losses for the entire OTL war in basically a month.

The AI is super broken, hence why I am now in charge of six nations trying to fight the Second World War.
 

nuclearslurpee

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An excellent update, certainly worth the wait! The quality of writing was superb, really made for a compelling narrative around a series of naval engagements and mishaps without feeling overburdened with details. Personally I appreciate the gaps left from working off of screenshots instead of notes as it feels more like a realistic "fog of war" element is present.

Were I in charge of a "Darkest Hour" revisit of HoI3, I would bring in individual destroyer/subs, a more rationalized method to how the AI should distribute their IC, etc. And fix a litany of issues that I've come across.
The problem with individual DD/SS, aside from the sheer number of units on the map which could get a bit taxing, is the capital/screen ratio baked into HoI3 (assuming that a DH-style revisit would be essentially a mod on top of the existing game mechanics, of course - were any of us to write out own game from scratch such things need not be limitations!). Having e.g. one BB escorted by a single DD (ship, not flotilla) would be a little unrealistic in terms of granting the "balanced fleet" combat modifier, I think.
 

Surt

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In case useful for the future, the Denmark Strait is located between Greenland and Iceland. Confusion over its location, given its name, is easily understood :) I'm not as confident, but I'm fairly sure that unlike the shallow seas around Denmark, the depth of the Denmark Strait is such that sunk ships are unlikely to cause much trouble to passing ships.
Maybe he meant the Danish Belts?
 

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Great episode! I didn't care a bit about the crappy AI or game mechanics and focused on the great writing! It was an exciting read, and I think the head scratching AI decisions were given better rationale in game universe.
 

TheButterflyComposer

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Idk. I'm still hoping for a sci-fi blockbuster ending where all the invincible nazis die all at once in the end. It's hard to root for them, even putting aside the fact they're nazis, when the game is so lopsided in their favour.
 

Wraith11B

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An excellent update, certainly worth the wait! The quality of writing was superb, really made for a compelling narrative around a series of naval engagements and mishaps without feeling overburdened with details. Personally I appreciate the gaps left from working off of screenshots instead of notes as it feels more like a realistic "fog of war" element is present.
Thank you for your appreciation! I was trying to make sure that everything sounded logical at some length... but we'll see.

The problem with individual DD/SS, aside from the sheer number of units on the map which could get a bit taxing, is the capital/screen ratio baked into HoI3 (assuming that a DH-style revisit would be essentially a mod on top of the existing game mechanics, of course - were any of us to write out own game from scratch such things need not be limitations!). Having e.g. one BB escorted by a single DD (ship, not flotilla) would be a little unrealistic in terms of granting the "balanced fleet" combat modifier, I think.
For sure it would require a near-complete overhaul of the naval combat system, for sure. I don't think it would be a mod-level, it would have to be a patch. No other way to fix some of the shit in the exe.

Maybe he meant the Danish Belts?
Yeah... there's no way that stuff should have worked out the way it did. There's literally no room for maneuver there. I'm sure there's a mechanic for it already (and I just can't find it) for restricting traffic into the Baltic a la Gibraltar, but with Denmark controlled by the Axis, I'm stuck at the mercy of the AI in this period.

Great episode! I didn't care a bit about the crappy AI or game mechanics and focused on the great writing! It was an exciting read, and I think the head scratching AI decisions were given better rationale in game universe.
Thank you!

Idk. I'm still hoping for a sci-fi blockbuster ending where all the invincible nazis die all at once in the end. It's hard to root for them, even putting aside the fact they're nazis, when the game is so lopsided in their favour.
Maybe not sci-fi, but for sure since I've taken control of all the majors (and tossed some of the bigger minors' units to their overlords to keep them from doing stupid shit) there's probably going to be a bit of reversals!
 

roverS3

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I'm sure there's a mechanic for it already (and I just can't find it) for restricting traffic into the Baltic a la Gibraltar
The Öresund and Great Belt Straits are represented in game. If you want to go back and forth between the Baltic and the Atlantic, you need either Copenhagen and Malmö, and/or Slagelse and Odense to not be in enemy hands. It's one of the reasons for the operation to take Copenhagen in 'Odin's time line.
 

nuclearslurpee

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The Öresund and Great Belt Straits are represented in game. If you want to go back and forth between the Baltic and the Atlantic, you need either Copenhagen and Malmö, and/or Slagelse and Odense to not be in enemy hands. It's one of the reasons for the operation to take Copenhagen in 'Odin's time line.
It's actually just Copenhagen for the whole thing, although this may have been different in vanilla/SF as I recall they changed the seas zones in that area for FTM.
 

roverS3

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It's actually just Copenhagen for the whole thing, although this may have been different in vanilla/SF as I recall they changed the seas zones in that area for FTM.
I didn't try every single combination, I just assumed that's the way it worked as any game where I controlled one side of the Öresund, and the enemy the other, has been a game where I conquered, or played as, Sweden. So, it's possible that it's still only Copenhagen, or maybe not. Not sure now.
 

Wraith11B

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The Öresund and Great Belt Straits are represented in game. If you want to go back and forth between the Baltic and the Atlantic, you need either Copenhagen and Malmö, and/or Slagelse and Odense to not be in enemy hands. It's one of the reasons for the operation to take Copenhagen in 'Odin's time line.
It's actually just Copenhagen for the whole thing, although this may have been different in vanilla/SF as I recall they changed the seas zones in that area for FTM.
I didn't try every single combination, I just assumed that's the way it worked as any game where I controlled one side of the Öresund, and the enemy the other, has been a game where I conquered, or played as, Sweden. So, it's possible that it's still only Copenhagen, or maybe not. Not sure now.
Yeah, I don't know offhand which of these combinations do the trick either, but by 1944 I've included Denmark in the Axis.

ALSO, I have a gameplay concern question to put to my readers: during a few days in June, I seem to have caused an issue: Apparently, Japan had a wargoal of Seize the Chinese Coast set, and I had assumed that it would be different from what Japan had already done, but I assumed incorrectly. So, Nat China surrendered, taking with it Guangxi, Yunnan, Xibei San Ma, etc. and leaving a significant amount of territory occupied by the Japanese returned to China (basically returning them to status quo ante bellum, and giving a NAP to the Chinese). Should I:

1) play it as it lies and just deal with it.
b) return to a previous save (undoing a lot of work on making the Soviets competitive again which wouldn't be necessarily difficult, just tedious as well as undoing a bunch of screen captures).
III) Edit the save and remove the NAP if possible, then force Japan to redeclare war and not use a stupid wargoal this time?
Δ) [CROWDSOURCED PLAN]
 

Wraith11B

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Fire the event to give the Japs the coast?
Sorry, I should have been clearer: they started from those positions (Japan did their thing in 1937-8 before I controlled them). So firing the "give Japan the coast" is where I'm back to.

I feel like it could be an interesting perspective (as I basically gutted several divisions of infantry and cavalry by the Japanese in ridiculous frontal attacks) of a war fought over the same ground and as a sort of penalty for being a human against one of the few nations I'm not about to assume control over. But it also seems kinda pathetic.
 

Surt

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open console (I think China is CHN but could be some other)
> surrender CHN JAP

:)
 

Cromwell

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Personally I'd go for option b if it was me playing but it makes me feel very guilty suggesting you redo all that work. :confused:
 

diskoerekto

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III) Edit the save and remove the NAP if possible, then force Japan to redeclare war and not use a stupid wargoal this time?
I'm leaning towards this, or maybe even directly manually triggering a chinese capitulation event that gives the correct amount of territory to Japan
 

Wraith11B

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open console (I think China is CHN but could be some other)
> surrender CHN JAP

:)
Personally I'd go for option b if it was me playing but it makes me feel very guilty suggesting you redo all that work. :confused:
I know, and it'd probably be the easier of the three options, it only took me like two hours to play those five days. :rolleyes::eek:o_O

I'm leaning towards this, or maybe even directly manually triggering a chinese capitulation event that gives the correct amount of territory to Japan
Unfortunately, since I'm running this as an "MP" game (you know, six computers), I can't resort to console commands, regardless of which one I do (unless the play it as it lies option), I'm going to be editing the save game (either removing the original war goal or removing the NAP).
 

roverS3

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I think Nationalist China is 'CHI', but I'm not entirely sure.

On the question of what to do about this without using console commands or replaying from a previous save? That's above my pay-grade, I haven't delved into event creation and the like. In principle, I would propose to do either of these, if possible: 1. Annex all of China through an event. 2. Transfer the territory that was under Japanese control before the surrender to Japan, leaving the rest in Chinese hands, permanently, or at least until you go to war again and grab the rest. (A hybrid could involve one or several of the small warlord states surviving to fight another day, and Nationalist territory being integrated into the Japanese Empire).
 

nuclearslurpee

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I didn't try every single combination, I just assumed that's the way it worked as any game where I controlled one side of the Öresund, and the enemy the other, has been a game where I conquered, or played as, Sweden. So, it's possible that it's still only Copenhagen, or maybe not. Not sure now.
Yeah, I don't know offhand which of these combinations do the trick either, but by 1944 I've included Denmark in the Axis.
This is actually directly from the game files, as each controllable "strait" sea zone is associated to a specific "blocker" province, the controller of which blocks their enemies from traveling through that sea zone. Same mechanic applies to Gibraltar, Suez, Panama, and Bosporus.

Regarding the Japan/China confusion: I would say simply to go with what makes the most sense in terms of the narrative to this point, and/or what makes the most compelling narrative going forward. Any choice is likely to go over well, since after all we the readAARbase are easily distracted by pretty pictures and quality writing! :D