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Casko

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Oh yeah, the factory system flaws...those been fixed somehow? Not sure how you'd do it in a few years but if the Axis can't solve that then they should still fail to win...eventually. Cos even if they get all the resources, the manpower and physical systems in place are going to weigh down the war machine quite a bit.

Indeed ten percent failure sounds pretty good but these are high explosives. Lots of them.
well the thing is, its much cheaper to have few duds here and there. Rather than have the entire artillery piece, tank, or Bomber explode mid-mission due to la lack of fail-safes on the explosives. and as El Pip said above, its usually a deliberate choice for safety,

This is also why WW1 shells still can be found all around Europe in greater quantities compared to WW2 explosives, as the tech simply wasn't there to make a safe-to-use explosive that wouldn't have considerable risk of exploding without warning.
 

TheButterflyComposer

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Bit of a bigger problem nowadays though, given that every dud bomb in afghanistan and iraq meant a big effort to try and destroy it before the insurgents got their hands on it. I recall an account of an army unit stuck guarding a bombd site for three days in the desert fighting off the taliban, whilst the US airforce tried and failed to set the bomb off.

It would be interesting to add this sort of thing in game, if difficult. Rabdom chance of an air attack not only doing no damage but the enemy captured your new plane and payload...
 

Wraith11B

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To an extent the amount of high explosives is why they have the dud rate. You could build a bomb that always went off guaranteed, the problem would be that such a weapon would occasionally go off inside the bomber before it was dropped. So the choice is made for fail safe, if any manufacturing issue crops up the bomb will become a dud rather than a tragic military-industrial accident.

Now ideally you'd just build them with tight tolerances so there are few failures of any kind. But that is surprisingly tricky; even as late as Vietnam War the US was running a 5% dud rate on bombs and a 2% dud rate on artillery shells. While I've not researched it in great detail I imagine this was once again a deliberate choice, the extra cost of the intensive QA/QC and high spec machine tools needed to drive down the failure rate was considered 'not worth it' for a bomb that was supposed to be cheap (in the pre-laser guided age anyway).
well the thing is, its much cheaper to have few duds here and there. Rather than have the entire artillery piece, tank, or Bomber explode mid-mission due to la lack of fail-safes on the explosives. and as El Pip said above, its usually a deliberate choice for safety,

This is also why WW1 shells still can be found all around Europe in greater quantities compared to WW2 explosives, as the tech simply wasn't there to make a safe-to-use explosive that wouldn't have considerable risk of exploding without warning.
I'd imagine that the WW1 shells are in denser concentrations in the no-go areas versus the WW2 bombs in the civilian areas... for the obvious reasons.

Bit of a bigger problem nowadays though, given that every dud bomb in afghanistan and iraq meant a big effort to try and destroy it before the insurgents got their hands on it. I recall an account of an army unit stuck guarding a bombd site for three days in the desert fighting off the taliban, whilst the US airforce tried and failed to set the bomb off.
I can't imagine that stupidity... we had to sit on Route Irish one day in Baghdad because a VBIED had detonated down the street... then the bird colonel who "Couldn't miss his meeting at VBC" demanded that we drop our civilian trucks back in the Green Zone then blow through downtown Baghdad with no route clearance to get back in time for his meeting.

It would be interesting to add this sort of thing in game, if difficult. Rabdom chance of an air attack not only doing no damage but the enemy captured your new plane and payload...
I'd build a system where contact with enemy equipment builds an "efficiency" modifier to research "counters" to whatever tech that particular thing is.
 

El Pip

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What's a "Bird Colonel"?
A full Colonel. In the US Army, USMC, and USAF Colonels have an Eagle in their insignia, which is why they are informally referred to as 'Bird Colonel'. This seems to be a US-specific thing, as other armies don't have eagles on their Colonel insignias...

The officer in charge of the War Pigeons
Maybe @Wraith11B has some first hand experience with the use of war pigeons in Baghdad during his deployment and those war pigeons were really urgently needed at that VBC meeting... along with the Bird Colonel.
 

nuclearslurpee

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I can't imagine that stupidity... we had to sit on Route Irish one day in Baghdad because a VBIED had detonated down the street... then the bird colonel who "Couldn't miss his meeting at VBC" demanded that we drop our civilian trucks back in the Green Zone then blow through downtown Baghdad with no route clearance to get back in time for his meeting.
Further proof that the military is simply a standard corporate office job with extra guns and bombs. :p
 

TheButterflyComposer

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I can't imagine that stupidity... we had to sit on Route Irish one day in Baghdad because a VBIED had detonated down the street... then the bird colonel who "Couldn't miss his meeting at VBC" demanded that we drop our civilian trucks back in the Green Zone then blow through downtown Baghdad with no route clearance to get back in time for his meeting.
This is the sort of thing IEDs are supposed to encourage: slow or stop expected convoys, then force them to go through an uncleared area if the brass is impatient, and if they don't then you've successfully wasted at least a few hours and many millions of dollars of the other sides budget.

Apparently this isn't even the worst sort of thing you had to do out there. Aside from guarding dud bombs and observing the various NATO airforces demonstrste their lack of funding, training native forces was apparently so dangerous and nerve wracking that it was similar to being in a pinned down trench for several weeks.

The officer in charge of the War Pigeons
That makes them sound way more useful and interesting than they actually are...

A full Colonel. In the US Army, USMC, and USAF Colonels have an Eagle in their insignia, which is why they are informally referred to as 'Bird Colonel'. This seems to be a US-specific thing, as other armies don't have eagles on their Colonel insignias...

Maybe @Wraith11B has some first hand experience with the use of war pigeons in Baghdad during his deployment and those war pigeons were really urgently needed at that VBC meeting... along with the Bird Colonel.
Maybe. I hope the risking of many lives (civilians too) and lots of equipment was worth it...
 

Casko

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The officer in charge of the War Pigeons
Clear Proof that US of A Should bring back War Pigeons, as to this day the term "Bird Colonel" confuses me the heck and back when it comes up in text books, simply because its clearly related to messenger birds in every other country :p.
 

Bullfilter

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I can't imagine that stupidity... we had to sit on Route Irish one day in Baghdad because a VBIED had detonated down the street... then the bird colonel who "Couldn't miss his meeting at VBC" demanded that we drop our civilian trucks back in the Green Zone then blow through downtown Baghdad with no route clearance to get back in time for his meeting.
Being able to tell stories like that makes you realise how lucky you are. Lucky that despite someone else’s ‘sense of urgency’ about something that ain’t can get you killed, you’re still around afterwards to tell the story. :eek:
 
Last edited:

Wraith11B

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What's a "Bird Colonel"?
The officer in charge of the War Pigeons
That makes them sound way more useful and interesting than they actually are....
Maybe @Wraith11B has some first hand experience with the use of war pigeons in Baghdad during his deployment and those war pigeons were really urgently needed at that VBC meeting... along with the Bird Colonel.
Maybe. I hope the risking of many lives (civilians too) and lots of equipment was worth it...
Clear Proof that US of A Should bring back War Pigeons, as to this day the term "Bird Colonel" confuses me the heck and back when it comes up in text books, simply because its clearly related to messenger birds in every other country :p.

This whole exchange was comedy gold. I wish those were still around, and that the Bird Colonel had to take care of them, but they'd just have some poor-sod PFC or Specialist do it.

A full Colonel. In the US Army, USMC, and USAF Colonels have an Eagle in their insignia, which is why they are informally referred to as 'Bird Colonel'. This seems to be a US-specific thing, as other armies don't have eagles on their Colonel insignias...
I think out of every military force on the planet, the US military has the weirdest insignias for their ranks.

Further proof that the military is simply a standard corporate office job with extra guns and bombs. :p
This is the sort of thing IEDs are supposed to encourage: slow or stop expected convoys, then force them to go through an uncleared area if the brass is impatient, and if they don't then you've successfully wasted at least a few hours and many millions of dollars of the other sides budget.

Apparently this isn't even the worst sort of thing you had to do out there. Aside from guarding dud bombs and observing the various NATO airforces demonstrste their lack of funding, training native forces was apparently so dangerous and nerve wracking that it was similar to being in a pinned down trench for several weeks.
Fortunately, in 2010, not a single Iraqi gave a crap about us Americans. They were all holding back so that we'd leave and then... well, you all know the rest.

Being able to tell stories like that makes you realise how lucky you are. Lucky that despite someone else’s ‘sense of urgency’ about something that ain’t can get you killed, you’re still around afterwards to tell the story. :eek:
For sure when my grandchildren ask me what I did in the Great Operation Iraqi Freedom, I won't have to shift them to my other knee, cough and say "Well I shoveled shit in Louisiana."
 

racebear75

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Caught up again and WOW. Your work got even greater again! With all those great photos and greater ship drawings.

But I hope, Lindbergh is forced to go soon, Roosevelt comes back and the US become a member of the allies, soon.
 
IX: 4. SITZKRIEG OR 'PHONEY WAR': Axis Military Expansion Jan - Aug 1942

Wraith11B

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January - August 1942


Armies.

Heer expansion in the first eight months of 1942 can be divided into two realms: continued development of their motorized and mechanized forces on one hand and expansion of the Reserve Armee which would hold the conquered areas. For the former, the deployment of two new Schutzstaffel brigades for the XV and XVI Armeekorps’ Liechte-Divisionen as well as the 69. and 71. Infantrie-Division (mot); the latter was detached and immediately began retraining the motorized infantry brigades to become the first of the Panzergrenadier-Divisionen (PzGrD), the motorized artillery battalion group was also given to training to receive the first examples of a Multiple-Launch Rocket System which could maintain pace with the mechanized division it was assigned to. The 1. and 2. PzGrD would commission in late July. Other attachments for the XV and XVI AK(mot) included a motorized air defense artillery battalion group and a heavy armored brigade for XVI AK (mot).


Above: the schwere Wurfrahmen 40 (sWuR 40) frames attached to the sides of
Sd.Kfz. 251/1 half-track, loaded with the 28/32 cm Nebelwerfer 41.
Below: the Nebelwerfer 41 conducting a firing exercise in 1942.

The latter--the Reserve Armee--received another corps command headquarters in the form of XXX Armeekorps (Feldgendarmerie). The 244. and 245. Feldgendarmerie-Divisionen activated in mid-May, well after five other FGDs had been transferred from the corps commands on the West Wall to new commands in the Reserve Armee. These commands were also receiving their ADA battalion groups, seven were activated over the course of the months.


A company of the 244. FGD during a “ceremony.”

Italy’s focus--what little they managed for the Esercito--focused almost entirely on the recreation of their MSVN forces for homeland garrisons. Three divisions were reactivated over eight months. The Esercito’s decisive deficit of heavy artillery was slowly being chipped away as two brigades of artillery were activated and assigned to their respective divisions. Like the Italians, the Japanese proved that their army was not truly focused on increasing their forces and only commissioned seven engineer brigades which were attached to their garrison forces; indeed their army was still contracting from the disestablishment of the anti-tank forces.


Air Forces.

The Luftwaffe was largely finishing its latest round of expansion during the first quarter of 1942. Zerstörergeschwader 12, the second group for XVIII Fliegerkorps (Multi-Role) was activated on 12 January, while XIX FK (MR), consisting of ZGs 13 and 14 would not be active until mid-June and not combat capable until well afterwards. Jagdgeschwader 21 activated under the aegis of XXIX FK (INT) on 5 February, and it’s compatriot, JG 22, would commission on 13 April, but the command would be disestablished as a realignment of all wings participating in the defense of the Reich were realigned the same day. XXIV FK (INT) would take the helm and be composed of JGs 7, 8, 13, 14, 21 and 22. The last tactical bomber group, Kampfgeschwader 10, completed the authorized strength of XXX Fliegerkorps (TAC) on 17 February.


Examples of the Bf 109s destined for JG 21. By 1942, most of
the squadrons for the Luftwaffe had been established, with new
formations foregone in favor of replacing the airframes in the
groups which already existed.

With these major commands completed, aircraft production focus turned largely to the production of replacements for combat and training losses, ammunition and disposable stores. This was not the case, however, for the development of the Marschflugkörper, the first two hundred of which were activated on 11 April. Production ramped up considerably and rapidly: 800 more were completed in May, while 400 were accepted in June and July and another 800 in August.


Italian Bf 109s were equipped with the Breda-SAFAT 12.7mm
machine gun, which was comparable to the MG 131 from Germany,
but nowhere near as capable as the German weapon.

In Italy, the lack of focus on producing more Italian designs had caused something of a political stir, but the funding was not diverted or removed from the airframes already procured. The first three wings of the Bf 109-i (modified from the traditional German version with the replacement of the Rheinmetall-Borsig 13mm MG 131s for the Breda-SAFAT 12.7mm machine guns and Italian radios) were received over the course of several months. A sop to the Savoia-Marchetti corporation for ignoring their offer of producing an Italian multi-role fighter had been an order of tactical bombers, formed into the fourth group on 21 April.


Naval Forces.

The Kriegsmarine had expended much of their goodwill in the years before 1942, and the conflicts between the command staffs had caused a breakdown in the production of new hulls, especially as the cost of production for a single u-boat had skyrocketed from the cost of the early coastal subs of the Type IIA/Bs to the latest Type XXIEs. Indeed, only Ubootgeschwader 20 and 21 were commissioned making up Uboot Flotille X.


The Focke-Wulf Fw190Tr was a modified multi-role aircraft
designed to be able to bring a torpedo to conduct the strike
mission or supplement the Bf 109Trs in the air defense or
escort role. This of course supposed a light-weight
torpedo which wouldn’t hamper the range of the fighter.

On the other hand, the Kriegsmarine also took delivery of the first examples of the Messerschmitt Bf 109Tr (for Träger, or “carrier”) interceptors, Focke-Wulf Fw190Tr multi-role fighter/torpedo attack and Junkers Ju-87Tr dive bombers were received and began operational training. Another two groups were planned and examples were in production. Goering had been fuming for years over the loss of some of the focus on aviation, but had developed a bit of a magnanimous view: the more cooperative he appeared to his compatriots in the Kriegsmarine, the more chances that he would be able to eventually subsume their laughable efforts at their air arm, especially as his own forces were so graciously providing the Kriegsmarine with their second-hand aircraft.


Commissioning ceremonies aboard the
Leonardo Da
Vinci the day before the commissioning of her sister,
Francesco Caracciolo. The cost of these battleships
far exceeded their usefulness as for much of the war
the Royal Navy’s focus was on Germany.

Italy had spent much of the last several years lavishly funding the Regia Marina. Indeed, on 20 February, the two battleships of the Da Vinci-class, the RM Leonardo Da Vinci and Francesco Caracciolo were commissioned into the fleet. Two more vessels were planned in order to fully (and finally) replace the dreadnaughts of the Andrea Doria and Conte di Cavour classes and to maintain a fleet of eight battleships. At the end of March, four destroyers of the Capitani Romani-class were commissioned as Destroyer Squadrons 30 and 31.


A light cruiser, Suyuza, on trials after her commissioning, 1942.
Japan was the only Axis navy to lose major fleet units to the
Royal Navy in the first years of the war, a fact which generated
significant smugness from the OKKM and RM.

For Imperial Japan, her navy was quite appropriately considered the most important force. Over the course of eight months, the Chrysanthemum throne commissioned two light cruisers, four advanced destroyers, the most advanced aircraft carrier in the world in the form of the Hiryu, and a maritime reconnaissance wing.

*****
Author's Notes: I post this because it's done, and I like keeping everyone up to date! Also, everyone: ACHTUNG! ALARM! The YAYAs are back! Vote vote vote!

Caught up again and WOW. Your work got even greater again! With all those great photos and greater ship drawings.
Thank you, sir. I appreciate the compliments!

But I hope, Lindbergh is forced to go soon, Roosevelt comes back and the US become a member of the allies, soon.
Lindbergh does go, and it's a fiasco... Roosevelt does not return, however, as he is disgraced from the loss to Lindbergh... I'll have a whole update about that when the time comes! Suffice it to say, impeachment is a terrible process!
 
Last edited:

TheButterflyComposer

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It's 1942 and the Germans are still building air wings and ships? Their mighty war machine is going to be glorious for a week before they run out of fuel.
 

stnylan

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Selling surplus equipment to Italy?
 

guillec87

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It's 1942 and the Germans are still building air wings and ships? Their mighty war machine is going to be glorious for a week before they run out of fuel.
agreed... they should be just trying to replenish losses and outdated equipment
 

roverS3

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I love the picture of the halftrack with side-mounted nebelwerfers, the FW-190Tr dropping the torpedo comes in at a close second.

Swapping the Borsig MG 131 in the Me-109s for a Breda-SAFAT in the Italian versions seems like a decent compromise. That said, the Breda is an older design which is larger, heavier, and slower-firing. But at least it's Italian, so we all know it'll never misfire...:rolleyes:
 

diskoerekto

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I wish in this alternate universe they went with an unusual B&V design for the carrierborne fleet, a P208 style fleet interceptor or a P163 based fast torpedo bomber seems interesting and a BV237 type dive bomber would've worked well too.

Great update, thanks :)
 

Wraith11B

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It's 1942 and the Germans are still building air wings and ships? Their mighty war machine is going to be glorious for a week before they run out of fuel.
agreed... they should be just trying to replenish losses and outdated equipment

Should be. But the war came in its own time, and thus we have large formations of things to try and keep the economy chugging along... or something. I'm sure @El Pip would have some better idea of the actual ramifications of the near constant expansion. What I've done in my current save is that I basically forced all of the Axis majors back to Full Mobilization as a penalty to cover the "Your economy has been running this hard for a year now, you have no money left to carry on as you have been."

Selling surplus equipment to Italy?
Basically. I'm imagining that all of the salvageable airframes from the Bf 109C/Ds had the things that the production agencies could actually use (radios, weapons, etc) taken out and replaced with their Italian versions.

I love the picture of the halftrack with side-mounted nebelwerfers, the FW-190Tr dropping the torpedo comes in at a close second.

Swapping the Borsig MG 131 in the Me-109s for a Breda-SAFAT in the Italian versions seems like a decent compromise. That said, the Breda is an older design which is larger, heavier, and slower-firing. But at least it's Italian, so we all know it'll never misfire...:rolleyes:
Last one to India is a looser!
I'm working on making it reasonable. We'll see how that works out!

I wish in this alternate universe they went with an unusual B&V design for the carrierborne fleet, a P208 style fleet interceptor or a P163 based fast torpedo bomber seems interesting and a BV237 type dive bomber would've worked well too.

Great update, thanks :)
I thought about it, and if I thought that the BV 155 could have actually worked as a carrier fighter, I might have used it. I'm trying to figure out what else might go on as far as all of these other developments. Glad to provide a good update!