Denmark problems and ways to fix them.

[TheDungen]

Perhpas there should be a defensiveness bonus in Denmark's traditions or NIs.

Probably not most war between sweden and denmark was denmark trying to get sweden back under the perosnal union (in fact they didn't officially recognize sweden as an independent country until they were forced to ceade land to them in the disastrous peace of roskilde).

 

[TheDungen]

There aren't any problems as such with Denmarks naval capabilities ... what is the problem is that the AI is utterly unable to use their navy strategicly except for blockading, and attempting to make sure that their transports aren't ganked

I don't know the swedish navy seems ti understand the importance of blocking the sound. Denmark however seems to always either divide it's navy or send them of to blockade stockholm or something.

 

[TheDungen]

If Germany loses Austria then it isn't really Germany anymore? If Great Britain doesn't own all Irish provinces then it isn't really Great Britain anymore is it?

The former is a stupid analogy, austria isn't even part of germany, and even if it was it'd be a realativly small part.
The latter seems correct, brittain lost ireland and now it lo longer refers to itself as great brittain, I don't know if there's a direct connection but...
The diffrence is during this era, the kingdom of norway is at all times held by one of the other scandinavian kings and yet no one was scandinavia. Granted if denmark managed to declare themselves scandinavia (by being king of the three kingdoms) and sweden then rebelled and became independent then denmark would probably go on calling itself scandinavia and think that it has a claim to sweden (they did that for centuries after the Kalrmar union after all) but if sweden beats them in a war they should have the opion of getting denmark to renounce being scandinavia. Even more so if denmark loses norway too.

I had a similar thing in my milan/italy playthrough, leon has taken all of the iberian peninsula, but castile formed spain and has colonies left. Honestly at this point Leon should be able to proclaim themselves the true spain and force spain back into the castile tag.

 

[TheDungen]

Another possible buff to Denmark would be to give them a decision/event to inherit Norway if Denmark no longer has Sweden as a subject (maybe with some development limit on Norway to stop it being too exploitable). One thing that sends Denmark into a death spiral when Sweden breaks away is that the pro-Swedish dogpile chomps off so much land from Denmark proper that Denmark is no longer eligible to integrate Norway by the usual means.

That or make intrigating norway the thing that fires denmark and sweden becomming historical rivals.

 

[TheDungen]

Merging the two seazones surrounding Sjaelland might help here. Assuming Denmark gets the same "spam galleys because capital adjacent to strait" thing that Ottomans do this should in theory allow a rich Denmark to hold their capital pretty easily.

Yes and no, those seazones are great if yu know how to use them, you cna trap and enemy on one of the islands but since the AI really suck at doing stuff like that I would agree with you.

 

[Retherz]

The former is a stupid analogy, austria isn't even part of germany, and even if it was it'd be a realativly small part.
The latter seems correct, brittain lost ireland and now it lo longer refers to itself as great brittain, I don't know if there's a direct connection but...
The diffrence is during this era, the kingdom of norway is at all times held by one of the other scandinavian kings and yet no one was scandinavia. Granted if denmark managed to declare themselves scandinavia (by being king of the three kingdoms) and sweden then rebelled and became independent then denmark would probably go on calling itself scandinavia and think that it has a claim to sweden (they did that for centuries after the Kalrmar union after all) but if sweden beats them in a war they should have the opion of getting denmark to renounce being scandinavia. Even more so if denmark loses norway too.

I had a similar thing in my milan/italy playthrough, leon has taken all of the iberian peninsula, but castile formed spain and has colonies left. Honestly at this point Leon should be able to proclaim themselves the true spain and force spain back into the castile tag.

tbh denmark forming scandinavia would be like USA forming Britain.. Doesn't make any sense since Denmark isn't even in Scandinavia, only has 3 provinces there.

 

[A_Dane]

Denmark is part of Scandinavia..

 

[TheDungen]

Denmark is part of Scandinavia..

There are differing opinions on denmark and finland, and scandinavia. The scandinavian peninsula is named for the scandic mountain range, which sweden norway and finland each have a part of but only sweden and norway are actually on the scandinavian peninsula. But the modern country grouping scandinavian usually refers to sweden norway and denmark. That said the scandinavian countries is a group name used very little in scandinavia, we perefer Norden (the north, or the nordic countries) which include sweden norway denmark finland and iceland (And sometimes estonia too, especially according to the estonians).

 

[yerm]

tbh denmark forming scandinavia would be like USA forming Britain.. Doesn't make any sense since Denmark isn't even in Scandinavia, only has 3 provinces there.

You know what would make even less sense? A Manchu forming "China" or a Mongolian (Or Persian speaking Turkic Mongol, whatever) forming "India" or some upstart former knightly order up on the far side of Poland and its swampy little saxon marshlands eventually forming "Germany"

 

[TheDungen]

You know what would make even less sense? A Manchu forming "China" or a Mongolian (Or Persian speaking Turkic Mongol, whatever) forming "India" or some upstart former knightly order up on the far side of Poland and its swampy little saxon marshlands uniting the Germans.

No? Makes as much sense as a Saxon barbarian (and descendant of widukind) forming the holy roman empire.

 

[War_lord]

He's quite correct if he's talking about the scandinavian peninsula rather than the geographical country grouping.

But he's talking about the hypothetical union of the Scandinavian cultures, of which the Danes are an integral part.

 

[TheDungen]

But he's talking about the hypothetical union of the Scandinavian cultures, of which the Danes are an integral part.

Let's not get carried away here it'd be nice to have the danes as a part of such a union but integral is a little much...

 

[A_Dane]

There are differing opinions on denmark and finland, and scandinavia. The scandinavian peninsula is named for the scandic mountain range, which sweden norway and finland each have a part of but only sweden and norway are actually on the scandinavian peninsula. But the modern country grouping scandinavian usually refers to sweden norway and denmark. That said the scandinavian countries is a group name used very little in scandinavia, we perefer Norden (the north, or the nordic countries) which include sweden norway denmark finland and iceland (And sometimes estonia too, especially according to the estonians).

I'm well aware of this, but the general use of "Scandinavia" + the purpose it serves in game, represents the cultural/linguistic entity, and this use includes Denmark - whether one think this is silly or not is a different matter..

 

[afb]

I'm sorry but I think sweden gobling up denmark 50% of the time denmark gobbling up sweden 40% of the time (as it is now) is neither better nor worse as denmark gobbling up sweden 90% of the time. The problem is that only in less than 1/10 games the historical outcome happens when neither has what it takes to hold all of scandinavia.

Why do you assume that will be the new outcome? Sure, there is a risk, but don't we all want a significant part of the games to end up with a precarious balance of power in Scandinavia? First step is getting Denmark and Sweden closer to each other in power. If it turns out that it always ends up with one part steamrolling the other (just closer to a 50-50 split than before) then the next step is analyzing why and dealing with it.

 

[TheDungen]

Why do you assume that will be the new outcome? Sure, there is a risk, but don't we all want a significant part of the games to end up with a precarious balance of power in Scandinavia? First step is getting Denmark and Sweden closer to each other in power. If it turns out that it always ends up with one part steamrolling the other (just closer to a 50-50 split than before) then the next step is analyzing why and dealing with it.

I do not I'm merely saying it's no better. And suggested that Johan should take care not to overdo the nerf. I'm not saying he did, I honestly am not good enough at this game to tell, but I've seen plenty of cases where they have overdone fixes before, and thus ask that he be careful.

 

[TheDungen]

I'm well aware of this, but the general use of "Scandinavia" + the purpose it serves in game, represents the cultural/linguistic entity, and this use includes Denmark - whether one think this is silly or not is a different matter..

I know you as a dane is, the explanation is more for the benefit of non nordics.

 

[A_Dane]

All right, just didn't get that vibe

My mistake

 

[Retherz]

You know what would make even less sense? A Manchu forming "China" or a Mongolian (Or Persian speaking Turkic Mongol, whatever) forming "India" or some upstart former knightly order up on the far side of Poland and its swampy little saxon marshlands eventually forming "Germany"

Let's see, China isn't a geographical region like Scandinavia is and Germania was. The mughals never became "India".

 

[IceTytanFang]

Let's see, China isn't a geographical region like Scandinavia is and Germania was. The mughals never became "India".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_proper You were saying about china not being a geographic region?

Even if there's no clear definition of China Proper, neither is there one for, say, Germany, France, Italy, Russia, and so many more. It's all cultural, just like a Scandinavian union

edit: oh, and also fenno-scandia≠scandinavia

 

[Admiral Fisker]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/81/Fennoscandia.png It is like calling France part of Iberia, simply retarded.

That's Fennoscandia, this is Scandinavia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scandinavia

Denmark is a part of Scandinavia.