Denmark is bugged in new Beta patch

[Fredrik82]

Your problem, Fred, is that you are too nationalistic to be objective about this. You won't even consider any suggestions to weaken Sweden just the slightest bit.

I dont think Sweden is overpowered in this game, it's the type of players that play Sweden and that create them into a monster, but that is more or less possible with all nations in EU2. Just look at Archdukes Denmark in SfS
The problem is, that i see it, is that Denmark is slightly underpowered. I've been playing them a few times in MP and they does indeed need some boots. Especially the monarchs and the leader setup. And i'm in a very much favour to create a sund due tax that Peter explained in this thread earlier, it's a mystery that paradox forgot about that...

 

[Galleblære]

I dont think Sweden is overpowered in this game, it's the type of players that play Sweden and that create them into a monster, but that is more or less possible with all nations in EU2. Just look at Archdukes Denmark in SfS
The problem is, that i see it, is that Denmark is slightly underpowered. I've been playing them a few times in MP and they does indeed need some boots. Especially the monarchs and the leader setup. And i'm in a very much favour to create a sund due tax that Peter explained in this thread earlier, it's a mystery that paradox forgot about that...

But take your average single player game. Almost constantly Sweden grabs Russian provinces way before her time, expands into Norway, and even at times have some colonial adventures. It's just silly to see Sweden carve out their little Baltic empire before 1550.

 

[Fredrik82]

EDIT: Or if the swedish events can be modified, that wouldn't be needed.

In what way should they be modifieded? If you the slightliest edit down Vasas reforms (That for the first place is very much historical) then you will risk to create a ahistorical Sweden that will not manage to become the historical Sweden in the 15th-16th century. Yes, so importent are the Vasa reforms. Just look at the Great Northern conflict event in the 16th century, Sweden is supposed to control like 10 provinces outside scandinavia and face a grand alliance of Russia/Denmark/Prussia and several german minors. Sweden can hardly manage that in it's current situation, edit them down and it will be impossible. How often do you see a historical Sweden in a MP game with it's historical boarders in the 15th-16th century? Not very often...

 

[Fredrik82]

But take your average single player game. Almost constantly Sweden grabs Russian provinces way before her time, expands into Norway, and even at times have some colonial adventures. It's just silly to see Sweden carve out their little Baltic empire before 1550.

This betas/patches is not created for SP, it can be very much true that AI Sweden can become uber fast, but that is not the case in MP.
And i'm sure if you continue you'r little SP investigation you'll see a Denmark eating up Sweden too sooner or later. Or that Norway become the master of scandinavia somehow :rofl:
Everything is possible in SP, but using a MP patch in a SP game can be risky for the AI balance

 

[Fredrik82]

Poland having a CoT in Danzig is far more justified than Sweden getting a CoT through the AHISTORICAL option...
.

Dont' Poland get there COT through a AHISTORICAL option too, no?

 

[Arilou]

But take your average single player game. Almost constantly Sweden grabs Russian provinces way before her time, expands into Norway, and even at times have some colonial adventures. It's just silly to see Sweden carve out their little Baltic empire before 1550.

This is one of those strange things that are easy for the AI to do but actually much *harder* for a human.

It's the same thing with the Uzbekhs and the khanates (the common denominator is that they all have low-taxvalue and manpower provinces and several of them) Sweden gets better by events (a little too good, or rather, they do not get worse) but in the beginning they are historically weak.

*However* because the AI cheats on supply their weakness isn't fully realized for the AI.

And to return to the original topic: Move the culture to the ahistorical choice. That'd make it fun and balanced. (although the revoltrisk mgiht be lowered also)

 

[Galleblære]

This betas/patches is not created for SP, it can be very much true that AI Sweden can become uber fast, but that is not the case in MP.
And i'm sure if you continue you'r little SP investigation you'll see a Denmark eating up Sweden too sooner or later. Or that Norway become the master of scandinavia somehow :rofl:
Everything is possible in SP, but using a MP patch in a SP game can be risky for the AI balance

I see you don't understand at all.

Has the default Swedish settings changed since the 1.08 patch? No. So the problem still applies. You can hide behind that silly "but these are beta patches! The problem doesn't apply" notion of yours, but an overpowered Sweden (and in consequence an underpowered Denmark) has been a problem since the earliest days of EU2, and still not reached any satisfactory solution.

So although your humerous dismissal of the problem at hand is somewhat amusing, it doesn't contribute anything to the thread.

 

[Hive]

I dont think Sweden is overpowered in this game, it's the type of players that play Sweden and that create them into a monster, but that is more or less possible with all nations in EU2. Just look at Archdukes Denmark in SfS
The problem is, that i see it, is that Denmark is slightly underpowered. I've been playing them a few times in MP and they does indeed need some boots. Especially the monarchs and the leader setup. And i'm in a very much favour to create a sund due tax that Peter explained in this thread earlier, it's a mystery that paradox forgot about that...

Actually, the Sound Tax is already in the game - illustrated through a boost in tax value... but maybe it's not the best way. A CoT in Copehagen would perhaps be better... and even that won't be enough.

Better monarchs and leaders would be a good thing - but sadly, we can't change one of the biggest problems: too few provinces in Denmark...

 

[kurtbrian]

Dont' Poland get there COT through a AHISTORICAL option too, no?

no, that is choice A in the event.

 

[Galleblære]

Better monarchs and leaders would be a good thing - but sadly, we can't change one of the biggest problems: too few provinces in Denmark...

One of the big things I don't understand is how this wasn't corrected after the experiences in EU1.

 

[Fredrik82]

Better monarchs and leaders would be a good thing - but sadly, we can't change one of the biggest problems: too few provinces in Denmark...

I think that is more of an problem with the engine in EU2, the other provinces in Denmark is just too small to be pointed out on the map. Although Blekinge that was under Danish rule until 15th century is big enough for being a province in EU2 (Blekinge is also Skåne in EU2). And Blekinge was also a relative importent province in the Danish times, especially in the defensive matters vs Swedish småland and the rich coastline. Maybe Bornholm is also a alternitve...

Those changes will most likely not happend anyway, lets hope for it in EU3 atleast

 

[Hypnotoad]

One thing that ppl seem to forget is that The Kalmar Union (Sweden, Norway, Denmark) historically lasted until 1523, always when i play Sweden i call that shit off in 1419. That is one of the reasons Sweden tends to get too powerful early in game. If the union was made unbreakable until say 1480 or so it would let Denmark concentrade on other targets and don't have to fight wars with both the north german alliance AND Sweden at the same time = loss.

The north german culture was very close to the scandinavian and i agree with some that say maybe there should be just that, a north german culture that both Denmark and Sweden, at some point, gets.

 

[Hive]

I think that is more of an problem with the engine in EU2, the other provinces in Denmark is just too small to be pointed out on the map. Although Blekinge that was under Danish rule until 15th century is big enough for being a province in EU2 (Blekinge is also Skåne in EU2). And Blekinge was also a relative importent province in the Danish times, especially in the defensive matters vs Swedish småland and the rich coastline. Maybe Bornholm is also a alternitve...

Skåne could easily be split in 2 provinces. But more importantly, I think Fyn (Funen) should be a seperate province - and that instead of Jylland and Holstein, there should be Jylland, Slesvig (Schleswig in German) and Holstein.

 

[devil]

I dont think Sweden is overpowered in this game, it's the type of players that play Sweden and that create them into a monster, but that is more or less possible with all nations in EU2. Just look at Archdukes Denmark in SfS

Yes Archdukes denmark in SfS, it must have been really hard having a AI sweden Really get a better example next time, so far you proved Denmark can only win when sweden is AI

The problem is, that i see it, is that Denmark is slightly underpowered. I've been playing them a few times in MP and they does indeed need some boots. Especially the monarchs and the leader setup. And i'm in a very much favour to create a sund due tax that Peter explained in this thread earlier, it's a mystery that paradox forgot about that...

Yes indeed, Denmark needs Monarchs boosts +1 ADM +1 DIP on nearly all monarchs, some should even get +2.

Sweden can hardly manage that in it's current situation, edit them down and it will be impossible. How often do you see a historical Sweden in a MP game with it's historical boarders in the 15th-16th century? Not very often...

Rofl, come on what games are you playing, Sweden gets 90% of the time, all the of baltic undercontrol within 50 years.

 

[unmerged(23962)]

Yes the main problem is the number of danish provinces.
Historicly they had blekinge (which is a part of skåne),
halland (represented in skåne and västergötland in eu2).
Actually they had nearly whole coast to Norway. But it's
not so much to whine about....

The best thing would be to split jutland and holstein into
3 provinces.Jutland then Schleswig and closest to germany
Holstein. And then give Schleswig scandinavien culture!

In this map i also see denmark had oldenburg, when did
they counquer them, and for how long did they have them?

Full map of Europe AD 1500 :

 

[unmerged(23962)]

Yes Archdukes denmark in SfS, it must have been really hard having a AI sweden Really get a better example next time, so far you proved Denmark can only win when sweden is AI
Yes indeed, Denmark needs Monarchs boosts +1 ADM +1 DIP on nearly all monarchs, some should even get +2.
Rofl, come on what games are you playing, Sweden gets 90% of the time, all the of baltic undercontrol within 50 years.

I played as sweden and had KJ as denmark, it was impossible to beat them, 1. Because of their fleet 2. Because of there income 3. Better tech
I didnt manage to take back skåne and gotland....do u know how to play denmark good, then they can be very strong.

I took 5 northern german provvs but nothing in balcan, the russians were there before me....and they were unstoppable....

Another strange thing is that everyone says that AI Sweden nearly always gets to strong in SP, well that isnt my experience, they often get screwed by russia and denmark!!!!!

 

[Fredrik82]

Yes Archdukes denmark in SfS, it must have been really hard having a AI sweden Really get a better example next time, so far you proved Denmark can only win when sweden is AI
Yes indeed, Denmark needs Monarchs boosts +1 ADM +1 DIP on nearly all monarchs, some should even get +2.
Rofl, come on what games are you playing, Sweden gets 90% of the time, all the of baltic undercontrol within 50 years.

In those three MP games i'm currently playing in is not the case, in fact Denmark is stronger then Sweden in atleast two of those games...
And this have been more common since the latest betas

 

[unmerged(5822)]

Would it be sensible to make core provinces not suffer cultural penalties, regardless of whether the country has the culture or not?

 

[unmerged(23962)]

Skåne could easily be split in 2 provinces. But more importantly, I think Fyn (Funen) should be a seperate province - and that instead of Jylland and Holstein, there should be Jylland, Slesvig (Schleswig in German) and Holstein.

hehe my thought too!!

 

[Prugel]

Man, I wonder how many of these threads I have seen on this board before.....

My view: Denmark is not really too weak, not much anyways, the decline is just quicker than historically. Sweden always breaks out far too early.
Trouble is, Denmark can sometimes expand, but they always explode soon after. Always. Nasty events, bad rulers and AI-trouble with disconnected isles - and especially the utter disregard of BB after Norway is inherited is the problem. In the hands of a player, Denmark is every bit as strong as it should be (was), compared to most other countries.
Sweden on the other hand is too strong, and almost always does rather well in SP. A poorly doing Sweden is only a bit smaller than in history. How often do you see Sweden disappear (except the rare vassal-anex)? Denmark does all the time. BTW, do Sweden have some kind of "die-hard" AI? I have once seen all of Sweden except two Finnish counties conquered by Denmark for a looong time, never giving up and signing peace (reloading didn't help). Denmark lost that war, couldn't take the WE.

German culture for Denmark: May help a bit, but I doubt it. Very strong tool in the hands of a player though. Historical? Perhaps the ruling class had a bit of both for a while, but that was probably true many other places......

And to Vorre: I believe a Prince or Count of Oldenburg "inherited" the Danish Throne in a way, so no conquest. As I remember, it was given away in an inheritance dispute again, not that long after - thus not lost in war.