Democratic Majority Republic Challenge (role playing)

[IsaacCAT]

Short version:

Has anyone played as a Republic (any) with the shortened terms law enacted and actively seeking a democrat majority with high approval?

Tips and/or advice?


Long version:

I have ended up with a 26,30 approval from the senate after forming TUSCIA in the first years of the game because I wanted to neutralize Rome. I have allied and made feudatory many nations and my tyranny has gone very high in the process:

Because I wanted to come back on Senate approval I accepted the Democrats mission to enact shortened terms and now I have got elections every two years. This lowers the probability to trigger the event mission of each party. Also, high tyranny is giving me a 0 approval from the Democrats. All of this, makes Senate approval very difficult to regain while my Tyranny is high.

I know that after some years, tyranny will go down. I also can keep tyranny high with loyalty inventions, this will help me with AE (see Imperator wiki). However, I want to role play a Republic with a majority of seats on the Senate for the Democrats and with democratic approval high. Also keeping the shortened terms law enacted.

Has anyone tried this for a long period of time? Do you have any advice or story?

Thank you

 

[IsaacCAT]

The set of laws preferred by the Comunists Democrats that I want to play enacted are:

Citizen Militia	Shortened Terms
Assembly of Residents	Grain Shipment Law
Senatorial Veto	Occupation Rights
Manumittance Policy	Land Seizure Protocol

¡Viva el Che!

 

[Torugu]

Every time I've had the Democrats in power it has ended in disaster, with a death spiral of the form: High Democrat Control -> High Tyranny -> Low Senate Support -> Even Higher Tyranny etc. It's just way to hard to get Senate support up when the Democrats are in power.

Frankly, the Democrats are a big part of the reason why I avoid Republics as much as possible.

 

[IsaacCAT]

Every time I've had the Democrats in power it has ended in disaster, with a death spiral of the form: High Democrat Control -> High Tyranny -> Low Senate Support -> Even Higher Tyranny etc. It's just way to hard to get Senate support up when the Democrats are in power.

Frankly, the Democrats are a big part of the reason why I avoid Republics as much as possible.

I am learning by playing. It is a test for a suggestion on government change by enacting laws that with time allow the player to change the government between any of the five possibles (tribes, republics, kingdoms, dictatorships, empires). With a set of prerequisites for each one (centralization, civilization, extension). I want to be possible that Rome becomes a tribe.

Nevertheless, the democrats are hard to please:

• You cannot give on families and allow them to be grateful.
• You need your censor to be always a democrat because the shortened term will change your Consul every 2 years Wrong. You need to appoint your democrat characters with high power base to positions of power to increase the democrats senate control
• You need to appoint as much young democrats as you can in governorship to improve the chances of a democrat being voted Consul Maybe is better to give them senatorial power and allow for other characters to be elected consul.

Let's see where I go. It is already 20 years and one civil war (very entertaining) that I am stuck with low senate approval. Ah! and I have learned that every time that a party repeats term you gain +2 tyranny

 

[IsaacCAT]

I am rediscovering (and having a lot of fun!) a game inside the game that I was deliberately ignoring. Because you can play a Republic without the party system. If you choose the best candidate every time for a job, the distribution of characters between parties and the way parties approval modifiers work will cancel each other out if you give in on the faction objectives every time they pop up (something almost guaranteed every five years term).

However, I would like to give the player that chooses to play by the rules of one of the parties a reward for the effort.

For example:

If you play by the oligarchs book and have a majority of oligarchs on the senate and high approval, the player should be able to reform to an Oligarchic republic. If you are already an Oligarchic republic, you should be able to have a bonus while you keep this situation. For example, one more idea slot open.

If you play by the traditionalists and have a majority of traditionalists on the senate and high approval, you should be able to reform to a Theocratic republic. If you are already a Theocratic republic, you should be able to have a bonus while you keep this situation. For example, one more idea slot open.

If you play by the democrats and have a majority of democrats on the senate and high approval, you should be able to reform to a Democratic republic. If you are already a Democratic republic, you should be able to have a bonus while you keep this situation. For example, reforming to an Athenian Republic.

Also, enacting laws should help you reforming the government (it is already like this)

And laws in Kingdoms or empires should allow the player to maintain a support for kingdom or empire from characters, like parties. There should be a similar distribution of convictions for characters in these governments: monarchic/imperial, republican and traditionalists. If the player in a kingdom decides to support the republican characters, and enact more "republican" laws, there should be a republican support that allows the player to change the government to Republic.

 

[IsaacCAT]

If you choose the best candidate every time for a job, the distribution of characters between parties and the way parties approval modifiers work will cancel each other out if you give in on the faction objectives every time they pop up (something almost guaranteed every five years term).

I have reviewed all my games with a Republic where I did not care about the faction of the characters and only chose the best candidates and the result is always the same:

I am a traditionalist while playing! This is like Disco Elysium, the Senate reflects on your play style. Well not exactly, the traditionalists is the easiest party to keep high approval:

• +0.05 if the country is at peace
• +0.0025 for each point of stability, if the stability is at least 65

You will be more time in peace than on war, and everyone loves high stability.

Ok, maybe it is my over secure play style.

We could say:

Play like an optimate/oligarch and you will be given the chance to reform to Kingdom

Play like a populares/democrat and you can advance to the Athenian Republic

Play like a Traditionalist/Boni and you can reform to Empire (if you have the required extension)

After reforming to one of these government types (Kingdom, Athenian Republic, Empire) you should be able to change again by enacting laws and having high power base characters that support the future government. This should be informed on the character like faction conviction in Republics, this will be government conviction.

 

[Torugu]

On the contrary I always end up with the oligarchs because:

a) I spend more time at war than at peace (seriously, how do you manage to be at peace most of the time?)
b) Tyranny is great, Oligarchs like Tyranny, and republics get all the time just for annoying the senate and
c) While stability above 65% is great, it's very expensive to keep it there - especially if you have any AE whatsoever


Another thing to consider is that low Oligarch approval can be fixed near instantly, while Democrat approval takes a very long time to recover. That's because you can gain high Tyranny at the press of a button (raise levy to get War Exhaustion > 0, then Invoke Devotio an arbitrary number of times for infinite, instant Tyranny), but the only way to reduce Tyranny is to wait for it to slowly decay back to zero.

Play like an optimate/oligarch and you will be given the chance to reform to Kingdom

Play like a populares/democrat and you can advance to the Athenian Republic

Play like a Traditionalist/Boni and you can reform to Empire (if you have the required extension)

I would put it this way instead:

• Play Oligarchs if you want to expand and build a more powerful empire
• Play Traditionalists if you want to play tall and plan to stay at peace most of the time
• Play Democrats if you want to roleplay or some mission (e.g. Athenian Republic) forces you too

 

[IsaacCAT]

seriously, how do you manage to be at peace most of the time?)

Speed runs. If you think about it, you can wage many wars but they last only a month. The war preparations is two months at least.

• Play Oligarchs if you want to expand and build a more powerful empire
• Play Traditionalists if you want to play tall and plan to stay at peace most of the time
• Play Democrats if you want to roleplay or some mission (e.g. Athenian Republic) forces you too

Yes, in the game as it is now. But it is an optional, not mandatory and you can skip it. I am enjoying very much playing with factions but no need for that.

On the other hand, I am looking for a political progression game like you have on tribes. For a continum in governments that you can change from one to the other. For that, you will have to actively give power base or senatorial influence to the relevant characters, enact certain laws and wait for their approval to reach 100.(progression).

 

[Torugu]

Aah, sorry I didn’t realize you were talking about your suggestion.

 

[IsaacCAT]

Aah, sorry I didn’t realize you were talking about your suggestion.

My fault, I have to open a thread on the relevant forum.

 

[IsaacCAT]

Frankly, the Democrats are a big part of the reason why I avoid Republics as much as possible.

If you do not give democrats characters jobs and debase them of power (no holdings, no legions, no fleet) you will only have minor senate approval penalties when the head of one family happens to be democrat.

 

[olivenkranz]

In my experience I dont like the shortened terms. I actuall like the +5 term length law.
I dont care who is most important if its above 55. If its below 45 I start going for Oligarchs until I am at peace for an extended period of time; I am a more careful and builder type of player.

 

[IsaacCAT]

Democrats have the handicap that most of the Heads of Families will not be democrats and they will not have many seats on the Senate.

The head of each major family gets the following modifiers for each percentage of the total family prestige in the country that the family has:

+0.25 Prominence
+1.2 Power Base
+0.001% Monthly Statesmanship
+0.005% Loyalty Gain Chance
-0.75% Senate Influence
Monthly Optimates Conviction: +0.0015
Monthly Oligarchic Conviction: +0.0015

Characters - Imperator Wiki

imperator.paradoxwikis.com

To dominate with democrats you need to ruin the family prestige, only giving jobs to democrat minor characters and scorn as many families as possible.

Thankfully I am playing as Etruria and not Rome. The roman families would be furious!

To reach this democratic dominance takes time, and I think is fun. But the game only requires this if you choose the Request Line of Succession, and only partial, because it is only support, not Senate Control.

It is quite easy and gamey to achieve a boost to Populares or Democrats Support by revoking holdings. Something more difficult (and rewarding) is to have Senate Control.

And this mechanic is for Populares in Rome but in other Republics is for Oligarchs:

Making it much easier to achieve.

Or in Democratic Republics it does not exist at all:

I think it is a pity that we are not using more the senate support and senate control of parties, is a missed opportunity.

 

[scriptkiddy]

I love seeing how much effort OP has put in this thread. Good job!

Have you by any chance managed to figure out how to influence the party convictions of the characters? From my last campaign with Athens I remember that the characters would randomly change their party membership, I haven’t noticed when and why they’re doing it though. It just came to my attention when I focused on giving all the offices to democrats instead of to characters with the highest skill only to see some offices being held in hands of oligarchs or traditionalists after a while.

 

[IsaacCAT]

I love seeing how much effort OP has put in this thread. Good job!

Have you by any chance managed to figure out how to influence the party convictions of the characters? From my last campaign with Athens I remember that the characters would randomly change their party membership, I haven’t noticed when and why they’re doing it though. It just came to my attention when I focused on giving all the offices to democrats instead of to characters with the highest skill only to see some offices being held in hands of oligarchs or traditionalists after a while.

Yes, you can see it on the character sheet:

It is very difficult to be a democrat as the other convictions will gain many points for everything that is mundane, like having a holding, being a Major character or having corruption:

It is easy that a democrat character switch to another conviction if you put it in a position of power, you bribe them or give them holdings to increase the democrats power base.

It is very intense to have them on top of the senate. I have not yet achieved it:

Meanwhile I have to wage war with Carthage. But It is so much fun to try to put the democrats on top, now they are only 27 due to their low powerbase. It is a matter of time, wars are a nice distraction from this very serious mission I have got.

My big issue now with traditionalists is that all the family heads are traditionalists:

And that gives them a lot of Senate Control:

I am going to give Arunth Tarquinii and Spitus Spurinas a governorship with the risk of a Civil war, but a governor has its senate influence -100%.

If they declare civil war, I will defeat them and keep as governors with the -100,00% and the traitor -50,00% modifier on the Senatorial Influence.

Very entertained I am as you see. And for the first time, I care about the face and name of these guys.

 

[IsaacCAT]

Finally, in 1 October 494 and after denying the traditionalist their agenda to demote the Roman culture, I have achieved my objective:

This has been done by giving small governors to head of families from Oligarchs and important governors to traditionalists. This has helped me reduce their senate power without risking civil war as their party approval is abysmal (oligarchs).

The reason is the scorned families. In order to get a fast approval from the Democrats I have scorned as many families as possible.

The tendency of democrat characters to change its conviction while in power is strong. That is why I only appoint minor characters of democrat conviction. This is by no means a final solution, and requires a vigilant and caring attitude for your nation characters.

I just hope that in the future, this play style has more rewards and it is not only left for role playing. Because it is fun and fulfills the political game.

 

[scriptkiddy]

Cool, thanks! Never actually noticed that overview ingame, jusg browsed the wiki but couldn’t find anything on it. So basically promoting a lot of slaves would let the numbers of democrats grow, at least temporarily. That’s all I need for that mission for Athens that leads you to dictatorship.