Democratic countries should not follow fascist national focus branches

[Niko Dermitzaki]

Hey there!

In recent games I noticed something absurd, multiple times:

- When playing as (neutral) Greece in a non-historical game, The Italian Republic (result of WW2 peace conference), a member of the Allies, declared war on me following their (fascist) national focus to do so.

- When playing Allied South Africa in a historical game, the democratic State of Japan (result of WW2 peace conference), followed their (fascist) national focus to declare war on the USA.

Wouldn't it be better to add an additional requirement for certain focus tree choices, to not be accessible for democracies?

Cheers, Niko

 

[Captured Joe]

This is a problem with the big 3 Axis factions' focus trees that don't leave any room for democratic/communist stuff. These factions are railroaded to behave this way in order to get WW2 to happen, but doesn't leave the AI with any alternative paths. Maybe those factions should just get the generic tree after switching ideology/government, like after a civil war.

 

[Niko Dermitzaki]

This is a problem with the big 3 Axis factions' focus trees that don't leave any room for democratic/communist stuff. These factions are railroaded to behave this way in order to get WW2 to happen, but doesn't leave the AI with any alternative paths. Maybe those factions should just get the generic tree after switching ideology/government, like after a civil war.

This would be a solution as well.

 

[amalric de g.]

Hey there!

In recent games I noticed something absurd, multiple times:

- When playing as (neutral) Greece in a non-historical game, The Italian Republic (result of WW2 peace conference), a member of the Allies, declared war on me following their (fascist) national focus to do so.

- When playing Allied South Africa in a historical game, the democratic State of Japan (result of WW2 peace conference), followed their (fascist) national focus to declare war on the USA.

Wouldn't it be better to add an additional requirement for certain focus tree choices, to not be accessible for democracies?

Cheers, Niko

Thats sadly a weak point of the game. It´s also not funny, to play a democratic germany, joining the Allies and you get a call to war (generating Threat) and the USA decided to take their Anti Nazi NF and declares war on you.

 

[Temudhun Khan]

Isn't it the same thing for USSR? The most logical path for fascist Russia is the "anti-fascist diplomacy", which is a bit weird.

 

[EntropyAvatar]

Can't they add a requirement to the relevant focuses such as "must be Fascist government"? That would seem like a fairly quick change.

 

[Illusive]

Taking the change government option in the peace treaty should give that country the generic focus tree. Additionally it should also remove all national spirits from that nation.

 

[Tisifoni12]

Yes the focus trees throw these issues up. If there were alternate focus trees which the countries would flip to with a faction change, or a disabling and enabling of options in a more complex focus tree.

Just about alwsys when I've had Japan surrender, it has subsequently declared war again only a short time after the peace confetence. It has also retained its faction, which seems inappropriate. Faction leaders must lose their factions when they surrender.

 

[Frozen Yakman]

I kind of feel that focus trees need a rewind or undo mechanic such that major events like civil wars or government-changing peace treaties would reset parts of it. After a war where the Allies force Italy to be democratic and the Comintern forces Bulgaria to be Communist, Italy's Befriend Bulgaria focus and its corresponding National Spirit need to rewind and let Italy decide if it still wants to be Bulgaria's friend.

 

[Fawr]

Its very hard to disagree with anything above.

I feel the game mechanics for much of this is already there, it just needs some adjusting. For example having a democratic part of the German tree would be easy to add (what to put in there may be harder). As would making some of the current items fascist only (and where appropriate make sure the person you are picking on is also non-fascist).

What to do with countries that surrender is harder to fix.

 

[Tisifoni12]

National Focuses were a good concept to replace the standard events happening on specific dates approach, but there are a lot of them, many have effects that can be similarly reproduced in other areas of the game, e.g. do the focus to declare war or use political points to justify war, do the focus to reduce the costs of some techs or pay political points for the right experts. Does the standard duration of 70 days (apart from the few obvious exceptions that ere 28 days or 210 days) make things a little predictable ?

I feel it could be improved, not sure if a re-work of the existing focus trees, parallel focus trees or a different flow chart approach would work better ?

What to do with countries that surrender is harder to fix.

Would it be harder to fix:

• Faction membership cancelled or replaced if a puppet/satellite (surely this already happens in many cases, certainly in Europe)
• Faction leader loses membership of and leadership faction (can't be too hard to fix) and is reset probably as puppet, satellite or non-aligned

 

[Fawr]

Would it be harder to fix:

• Faction membership cancelled or replaced if a puppet/satellite (surely this already happens in many cases, certainly in Europe)
• Faction leader loses membership of and leadership faction (can't be too hard to fix) and is reset probably as puppet, satellite or non-aligned

I think these would require code changes (and my suggestions would be mods).

 

[cuendillar]

A few specific foci could definitely use extra government conditions, like a democratic nation being unable to take a hostile (claims, demands, DoW) focus against another democratic nation, or for other ideologies too if they are in the same faction. Resetting them to the default tree seems far to excessive as I see no major problem with a country being forced into a new government to use (advisors and) foci to revert to the "good old days". Most of the trees, like the military bonus and industrial buildup parts, are also quite independent of politics and more about letting the countries develop. It would also make a mess as you could take both the bonuses from the country-specific and generic trees.

In the long run, it would be great if Paradox could add branches to the vanilla focus trees that supports other government types too. I just don't see it happening all that soon. My guess is that at least two of China, South America, Scandinavia and Spain have higher priority than those. Of course, a Japan update might come in a China DLC or even in its associated free patch. Would make sense considering how much those nations interact to not hold the Jap tree as rigidly unchangable.