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Permanganate

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Nov 29, 2004
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kucing said:
Tanks are always awesome :D. But to be fair, you should play as German and look at their tanks. They are strong and they have brigade attchments that make them even stronger.

Oh yes, definitely. Every GER Panzer and HQ division has a brigade, and they're all full strength. Of course, this was ridiculous by the time of the Ardennes, Germany couldn't possibly have put all those full-strength four-brigade divisions in the West - but this demo is to get people to buy the game, not to scare the hell out of them with how bad an idea Autumn Fog was. :)
 

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jimmyricken said:
Hi,



I have try it. It was a very hard fight :wacko:

I reach total conquer on 25. Feb. at 5:00 hour. I think, I have made a lot of mistakes. I have took six screenshots:

demoal1 - demoal6:

http://de.f2.pg.briefcase.yahoo.com/jimmyricken

Gruß Jimmy

wow nice...

I think, that the AI is worth some more improving. Thats my conclusion from the fact, that it is possible to reach total conquer with both sides and in short time.

Perhaps Jimmy, you could just write a short HowTo, describing how you did it.
 
Last edited:

unmerged(37062)

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My english is very bad. In german I would write much more :)

I play at the lowest gamespeed. I think it's usefull to watch every detail. When I change a commander, then I split the stack, so the penalty of a commander change of 20% Org is only at one unit. Then I add further units to this stack. When I use the offensive option, I only do it when the unit stands and don't move or attack. The cost of supply and fuel for the offensive option is much higher when choose during combat or moving. It looks like an bug in the game.

In this campaign (Allis vs. Axis) I collect the tanks from the southeast under Patton in Liége. I leave four Inf-Div. in Mülhausen and six in Straßburg. The mountainier also went to Straßburg, and one HQ. The other units from southeast went to Luxemburg, Bastogne and Liége. The tanks from Paris went to Antwerpen, the Infanterie to Lille. The tank in Aachen went to Eindhoven, also the Infanterie, but apart. My first goal was to hold Eindhoven. In Antwerpen, I use engineer generals. They are for the attack at Utrecht. Montgomery is placed in Lille to attack Dünkirchen.

When Dünkirchen is taken, the Infanterie went to Gent. When Eindhoven is secure, I attack Utrecht to cut of Rotterdam and Amsterdam. Then, I attack Rotterdam and move with the Infanterie from Gend to Rotterdam. Then I destroy the units in Amsterdam, but don't move into this province. Because I try to conquer all provinces, so I don't want to get to much victory points.

On the other side, I attack Köln from Liége, Bastogne and Luxemburg. Of course, I have Montgomery use for this attack. It's very important that strong units reach Köln at the same time. So I have plan the attack carefully. The units that take Rotterdam are also send to Liége and then to Köln. Our next goal is Saarbrücken. The attacking units from Straßburg needs Montgomery, and the attacking units from Köln and Luxemburg needs engineer generals. By this attack, also strong units must reach Saarbrücken at the same time to hold it. It's extremly bad to lost a conquerd province. From Saarbrücken I went to Frankfurt. It was difficult for me to hold it, but I had luck. Then I took Aachen back. The units from Antwerpen and Lüttich can then send into this province. Then I attack Dortmund with strong forces to secure that the AI is unable to throw me out of this province. Than I attack Essen, but I don't went into it. I the south, I attack Stuttgart. Here I have my biggest problems. I attack several times, but always to early. The Org of my units were to low. Strange, the units in Stuttgart don't went out of supply?

The north were much easier, from Utrecht and Eindhoven, I attack Arnheim and so on. the last province in the north was Hannover. In the south I had very hard fights. When I smash the last german forces in Friedrichshafen, I look when my units will arrive in Friedrichshafen. I planned the time to take undefended Essen and Amsterdam and send the units, so they will arrive one hour after the occupation of Friedrichshafen. Without the 18 victory points of Essen and Amsterdam I can't reach a strategic victory and therefore the game doesn't end before 2. march. So I can secure, that I was able to counquer all provinces.

I think, very important was to use the engineer generals to attack across rivers and to attack only when it's save that you can hold the attacked province. Further, to look when the units are ready with their relaxing time, so you don't waste time. And change commanders only for one unit, so the penalty of 20% Org losses are only for one unit.

I think, that the AI is worth some more improving. Thats my conclusion from the fact, that it is possible to reach total conquer with both sides and in short time.

I am surprised, that the AI don't use the offensive option. Even when I play Axis vs. Allies and the AI have enough supply, he don't use this option, that's stupid. The AI losses also through disappearing, retreating units, that never arrives in other provinces. That seems to be a bug and must be fixed.

Viele Grüße Jimmy
 

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jimmyricken said:
My english is very bad. In german I would write much more :)

I play at the lowest gamespeed. I think it's usefull to watch every detail. When I change a commander, then I split the stack, so the penalty of a commander change of 20% Org is only at one unit. Then I add further units to this stack. When I use the offensive option, I only do it when the unit stands and don't move or attack. The cost of supply and fuel for the offensive option is much higher when choose during combat or moving. It looks like an bug in the game.

In this campaign (Allis vs. Axis) I collect the tanks from the southeast under Patton in Liége. I leave four Inf-Div. in Mülhausen and six in Straßburg. The mountainier also went to Straßburg, and one HQ. The other units from southeast went to Luxemburg, Bastogne and Liége. The tanks from Paris went to Antwerpen, the Infanterie to Lille. The tank in Aachen went to Eindhoven, also the Infanterie, but apart. My first goal was to hold Eindhoven. In Antwerpen, I use engineer generals. They are for the attack at Utrecht. Montgomery is placed in Lille to attack Dünkirchen.

When Dünkirchen is taken, the Infanterie went to Gent. When Eindhoven is secure, I attack Utrecht to cut of Rotterdam and Amsterdam. Then, I attack Rotterdam and move with the Infanterie from Gend to Rotterdam. Then I destroy the units in Amsterdam, but don't move into this province. Because I try to conquer all provinces, so I don't want to get to much victory points.

On the other side, I attack Köln from Liége, Bastogne and Luxemburg. Of course, I have Montgomery use for this attack. It's very important that strong units reach Köln at the same time. So I have plan the attack carefully. The units that take Rotterdam are also send to Liége and then to Köln. Our next goal is Saarbrücken. The attacking units from Straßburg needs Montgomery, and the attacking units from Köln and Luxemburg needs engineer generals. By this attack, also strong units must reach Saarbrücken at the same time to hold it. It's extremly bad to lost a conquerd province. From Saarbrücken I went to Frankfurt. It was difficult for me to hold it, but I had luck. Then I took Aachen back. The units from Antwerpen and Lüttich can then send into this province. Then I attack Dortmund with strong forces to secure that the AI is unable to throw me out of this province. Than I attack Essen, but I don't went into it. I the south, I attack Stuttgart. Here I have my biggest problems. I attack several times, but always to early. The Org of my units were to low. Strange, the units in Stuttgart don't went out of supply?

The north were much easier, from Utrecht and Eindhoven, I attack Arnheim and so on. the last province in the north was Hannover. In the south I had very hard fights. When I smash the last german forces in Friedrichshafen, I look when my units will arrive in Friedrichshafen. I planned the time to take undefended Essen and Amsterdam and send the units, so they will arrive one hour after the occupation of Friedrichshafen. Without the 18 victory points of Essen and Amsterdam I can't reach a strategic victory and therefore the game doesn't end before 2. march. So I can secure, that I was able to counquer all provinces.

I think, very important was to use the engineer generals to attack across rivers and to attack only when it's save that you can hold the attacked province. Further, to look when the units are ready with their relaxing time, so you don't waste time. And change commanders only for one unit, so the penalty of 20% Org losses are only for one unit.



I am surprised, that the AI don't use the offensive option. Even when I play Axis vs. Allies and the AI have enough supply, he don't use this option, that's stupid. The AI losses also through disappearing, retreating units, that never arrives in other provinces. That seems to be a bug and must be fixed.

Viele Grüße Jimmy

Bin auch deutscher...Also merk ich das garnet wenn dein englisch schlecht ist... =)

Thanks for the long post. You found out some issues, i didnt find out yet. The "disappearing" enemy units, computer not using offensive option and the different costs of offensive option also look like bugs to me. Also that a workaround for the 20% penalty is possible, might be fixed.

Time for a "bug thread", eh?

mfg

Inbrainsane
 

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Permanganate said:
Oh yes, definitely. Every GER Panzer and HQ division has a brigade, and they're all full strength. Of course, this was ridiculous by the time of the Ardennes, Germany couldn't possibly have put all those full-strength four-brigade divisions in the West - but this demo is to get people to buy the game, not to scare the hell out of them with how bad an idea Autumn Fog was. :)

Time for a "Realistic German OOB" mod then, with all the Volksgrenadiers at 40-75% strength...
 

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Inbrainsane said:
But then scenario would be over after 10 days....

Not really - just tried it - was making quite a bit of progress, had taken the Netherlands, rescued the Dunkirk pocket and was pushing into France - quite on Jan 1st. I also tweaked Fallschirmjager to be Mot Inf rather than Bergsjager.

The German attack does go slower though with less infantrymen - you have to be a lot more careful.

Obviously not recommended for play as the Allies.
 

unmerged(34297)

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i have a fealing that some ppl are cheating here juging by the fule and supplies!! I have finishe the dome beating the allies the first time i played.

It took me 2 times with the allies and that's all withaout cheating. All u need is speed. Once u get the allies on the run u can't luse. But u have to do it quickly dont wait to long and try to support your attack as best u can.

Another trick is by flancking your enemy: if u get attacked in one province couterattack from another against the attacker, he will recive a 50% flanging penalte. keep at it an u will win!! :)
 

unmerged(37062)

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Hi,

i have a fealing that some ppl are cheating here juging by the fule and supplies!! I have finishe the dome beating the allies the first time i played.


I don't know, whether someone here uses cheats. I never play with cheats. I hate nothing more than cheating. People who are cheating are stupid, in my opinion.

All u need is speed. Once u get the allies on the run u can't luse. But u have to do it quickly dont wait to long and try to support your attack as best u can.

Yes, but when you want to be fast you have not to be to fast :)

For example: When you want to attack Amiens, then a good preparation of the attack is necassary. When your forces are to week, probable the AI would retake the province. The Infra of the province is then only 25%, when you then conquer the province again, then the Infra is only 13%. Your units needs then a week or so to walk through this province. This will extremly slow your advance.

Another trick is by flancking your enemy: if u get attacked in one province couterattack from another against the attacker, he will recive a 50% flanging penalte.

I think, this is better then support-defence. When playing allies vs. axis, I often use this to hold my provinces. It seems to be very effectiv.

Gruß Jimmy
 

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jimmyricken said:
I don't know, whether someone here uses cheats. I never play with cheats. I hate nothing more than cheating. People who are cheating are stupid, in my opinion.

Care to tell me exactly why it is wrong to "cheat" against the ai, if we assume that the player is not going to post a screenshot of his victory in this (or a similar) thread..?

I hope that your "stupid" is only applied to the people who cheats agains human opponents, or brags about how good they played without mentioning their cheating.
 

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herm said:
Care to tell me exactly why it is wrong to "cheat" against the ai, if we assume that the player is not going to post a screenshot of his victory in this (or a similar) thread..?

I hope that your "stupid" is only applied to the people who cheats agains human opponents, or brags about how good they played without mentioning their cheating.

You are right. But we are in this thread, so it is stupid to cheat here...
 

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martin99E_romme said:
i have a fealing that some ppl are cheating here juging by the fule and supplies!! I have finishe the dome beating the allies the first time i played.


You get much fuel and supplies from enemy, when you conquer his capital.
 

unmerged(37062)

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Hi herm,

Care to tell me exactly why it is wrong to "cheat" against the ai, if we assume that the player is not going to post a screenshot of his victory in this (or a similar) thread..?

I hope that your "stupid" is only applied to the people who cheats agains human opponents, or brags about how good they played without mentioning their cheating.

I think cheating is stupid, because those people don't want to think. Those people are complete unambitious. Using cheats take the pressure to think. They don't want to learn more details of the game, those people are superficial. When people don't want to learn more about a game and how it function, they play the wrong game. Then they must play a less dificult game. People who uses cheats are not really interest in the game.

I think it's ok to use cheats when you want to test something in the game to discover new realizations, for example to learn more about the progression of the experience points of different commanders. I think it's also ok, to load a save game when something strange happens like your puppet declares war to the SU or you lost several units because you have forget them in the desert.

I will never use a special key and typing a special word to get some raw materials ore some units. This thought is terrible for me. In always most games the AI is so stupid, that it is unnecessary to use cheats.

When there is a user that only play a game for fun and only sometimes, then I have no problem when he uses cheats, but I can't understand this.

Gruß Jimmy
 

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jimmyricken said:
When there is a user that only play a game for fun and only sometimes, then I have no problem when he uses cheats, but I can't understand this.
Gruß Jimmy

I have played HoI very much, and in some of the games I have used the scenario editor to change the IC, resources or some other aspect of the game. I have even used the built-in cheats to get more resources in some games. And you know why, because I play games for fun and sometimes it is fun to not have to bother that much about e.g. rubber. For the better part of my games I have even played without fow, which in my opinion is like cheating, just because I like to see what happens in the rest of the world.

The point is that it can be fun to play a game the way it is, but some cheats make that same game fun in another way. I don't really see what there is to understand, it's fun to play both ways, it all depends on what type of game I'm interested in.
 

unmerged(37062)

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Hi herm,

I can understand your view. I think it's the different attitude of what is fun. A game that is to easy annoys me, that isn't fun for me. When the game becomes to easy, then I stop playing it. Than it is absolute boring for me.

I have to realize that other gamers have a different attitude of what is fun. Many friends of mine are happy when a game becomes easier and easier with the time. It's difficult for me to understand this. When it is absolute clear that I will win the game, I lose the desire to play the game till the end. When it isn't necessary to try very hard and to plan carefully my actions, then the game makes no fun.

Viele Grüße Jimmy
 

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Inbrainsane said:
If you think,you did this scenario well, post screenshots here.

Please no cheated ones, no fakes, and no expanded time.

OK, this is my best try as germany:

http://www.omegaleader.de/bilder/germany3.jpg

Hmmmm 1 question: U habe 5000 units of fuel. How did u get that? Playing Germans my starting fuel consumed in the first week. my pz divs gone low on fuel fighting less effective and moving half the speed as an infanterie,

So how could Germany has such a big amount of oil? u did sum Scenario edit?
 

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ACME said:
Hmmmm 1 question: U habe 5000 units of fuel. How did u get that? Playing Germans my starting fuel consumed in the first week. my pz divs gone low on fuel fighting less effective and moving half the speed as an infanterie,

So how could Germany has such a big amount of oil? u did sum Scenario edit?


I did no editing. Just read post #33 in this thread.

Oh, you might be too lazy so i will explain it again:

When you conquer paris, you get lots of oil from the allies, because its their capital(~2500). Then a new province is made allies HQ. When you conquer it, then again you get some of their oil and supp. And once you have all the map, you have all the oil. PLUS: "front-supply-cache-captured-events" (100 oil each) and the "Operation Westwind was big success"-event (+500 oil).

But all this are features of a plain installation of the demo.

So i did NOT:

- add custom events
- scenario edit
- console command cheat
- screenshots fake