[Demo] - Duchy of Toscana's succession

[alh_p]

I had a couple of play-throughs of the Duchy of Toscana in the demo and have a couple of questions on succession. In particular, how can the Duchess ensure she has an heir to her titles (some or all), such that the game does not end with her death?

In both my play-throughs I had a couple of fruitful marriages, blessed with a couple of children a piece, as well as a couple of “crimes of passion” (recognised and non-recognised) with that love rat the Holly Roman Emperor. So to my mind the “end of the line” is not for want of actual heirs…

The Duchess’ husbands have (under my tutelage/pimping) included: The Mayor of Bollogna, The Doge of Genoa and the Duke of Anjou (iirc). As I’ve had children from each marriage (male and female), I’m slightly stumped by why none of them has been considered an heir to the Duchess’ lands.

Tuscany has, in 1066, Agnatic-Cognatic Gavelkind succession law. My understanding of this law is that (as the Duchess’ reign testifies) an heir can be male or female and that titles will be distributed among the heirs. While the hierarchy of heirs comes presumably comes down to age (maybe skewed to male priority), I think it’s pretty irrelevant as for the moment I just want ANY heir and the Duchess’ children have included both males and females.

I’m thinking the problem may not lie in my understanding of succession law per se, rather the interface or something to do with my choice of husbands perhaps. All the children the Duchess has had have been tied stronger to their father’s families, and the males have in fact ended up being their fathers’ heirs. Is there something I have to do to recognise or flag that a child is eligible to inherit? Why are the Duchess’ children becoming their father’s heirs but not the Duchess’?

I also then tried changing the succession law from Gavelkind to Elective and even though I had a daughter as the #1 candidate, the tool tips telling me I did not have an heir and that titles would be lost remained... Is this a question of the UI, me not doing something to "pick" an heir or the succession law itself?

 

[Maestro Ugo]

You need to arrange a matrilinear marriage which will ensure that all the children belong to mother's dynasty, not the fathers as is by default. To do this Go to the diplomacy screen of the Duches and select matrilinear marriage. Note that the number of people who would accept this is bound to be limited and you will in any case loose prestige from marrying a lower rank.

 

[galdor123]

In a normal marriage, children are always of the father's dynasty. I guess you had only normal marriages? The solution to this are matrilinear (spelling?) marriages, where any children are members of the mother's dynasty. You can arrange these just like normal marriages, just choose the option. I think the AI is a bit less likely to accept these marriages, but you can certainly find someone who will accept.

 

[Hamanu]

The AI will not accept if the male in question has even a small chance of inheriting anything. This, the best "mate" I could find was the bastard brother of the King of Castille. Since he's a bastard he'll always accept, but he's also royalty and, therefore, will not incur a prestige penalty.

 

[alh_p]

Ahah! Thanks Maestro Ugo and galdor123... I knew it must have been something ostensibly simple.

Out of interest, would that also stand the Duchess' heirs in place to inherit any of their father's titles too? Presumably it would be dependant on the father's state's succession law and any other children but I would be interested to know if in practice it's possible to add to the Duchy's holdings by marriage.

 

[Hamanu]

it would be dependant on the father's state's succession law

This! And yes, it would be possible and quite likely, actually. A son would inherit both, but if they have more children, then gavelkind might split the inheritance.

 

[alh_p]

The AI will not accept if the male in question has even a small chance of inheriting anything. This, the best "mate" I could find was the bastard brother of the King of Castille. Since he's a bastard he'll always accept, but he's also royalty and, therefore, will not incur a prestige penalty.

...and thank you sir for the answer to my above follow up question!

The bastard of Castille... I guess he comes with free "foreigner" dislike tags for your vassals (not to mention any for being a bastard). Is the bastard legitimated -or perhaps that's a contradiction in terms?

As to other prospective husbands, has anyone found other decent candidates? If the AI is reluctant to give up on patrilineal inheritance, what about the Doges of Genoa and Venice? They don't stand to pass-on anything AFAIK and count as rulers too.

 

[Archam]

Ahah! Thanks Maestro Ugo and galdor123... I knew it must have been something ostensibly simple.

Out of interest, would that also stand the Duchess' heirs in place to inherit any of their father's titles too? Presumably it would be dependant on the father's state's succession law and any other children but I would be interested to know if in practice it's possible to add to the Duchy's holdings by marriage.

From my experience you will never get an heir accepting to accept a matrilinear marriage. In theory nothing prevents it but they will just never accept. So expect if the father somehow becomes heir after the marriage that shouldn't be possibe.

 

[alh_p]

From my experience you will never get an heir accepting to accept a matrilinear marriage. In theory nothing prevents it but they will just never accept.

mysoginists... pah, the early middle ages were so un PC.

 

[Pode]

Basically, no male capable of deciding for himself will choose a matrilinear marriage that I found. The key is finding men (preferably noblemen so the prestige hit isn't QUITE as bad) who rule nothing (not even a barony/city/bishopric) and serve in another's court, so that you're asking their liege about the marriage. Said liege gets the prestige of marrying a courtier to a duke level title, so he's fine with the idea.

Roderigo Diaz de Vivar, the legendary El Cid, starts as a landless marshal (usually, I've seen the AI waste him as chancellor :blink: ) in Castille. Marshall with a skill of 27 makes life tough for the Sicilian Muslims.

 

[0Emmanuel]

There is also a landless younger brother, Jaromir, I think his name is, of the Duke of Bohemia hanging out in the latter's court. It might be possible to get that one, if you ask the duke. And since Bohemia has seniority succession, Jaromir is actually second-in-line.

 

[Sir Garnet]

A Prince of Denmark with good martial stats worked fine matrilineally and gained an alliance that was actually of some minor use.