Delighted to see save scumming fall out of fashion with streamers

  • We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

micah6vs8

Sergeant
35 Badges
Jan 9, 2014
87
185
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV
I have a simple formula for streamers, as one who is entertained by high quality EU4 play.

> Risk is entertainment. Save scumming negates risk.

If I see you save scum, I am gone. I don't think I am alone. Might be good to keep in mind as a good business practice. Cheers.
 
  • 35
  • 8Like
  • 3Haha
  • 1
Reactions:

Deliberus

Banned
9 Badges
Jun 22, 2020
560
1.473
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
all have their preferences I guess but learning the game like this without save scumming is difficult and I'm not exactly sure why streamers should be exceptions...
 
  • 1
Reactions:

Vin55

Colonel
56 Badges
Nov 7, 2018
1.096
1.537
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Hearts of Iron IV: By Blood Alone
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
Not really about risks but I agree, that some take it over the toop especially those insane oriat wc runs are just so damn dumb. But I think that if you have a 666 ruler aged 20 and he dies that is also just stupid and I dont agree with the game, or you have a 000 heir after kicking 3 210 heirs just prior with two 534 rulers or something the like. Or just some start as Byzantium where you really need to have the optimal outcome so using it sometimes but not always is totally ok. But ecessive for every bad outcome is too much.
 
  • 4Like
  • 1
Reactions:

Lars_Schneller

Second Lieutenant
1 Badges
May 8, 2020
127
472
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
I totally agree. It is a good sign to me when the streamer says "for this playthrough we won't be reloading saves." Risk and possibility to fail with no cheating ability is element of entertainment for me. I usually don't reload saves, sometimes I do. But for me to find a valid reason to watch something, it must be entertaining, which means challenging and it must entail streamer investing a bit of thinking into decisions. When you lose a war, it is much more fun to see a streamer bounce back from unfavorable position then to watch him reload his previous advantageous position.
 
  • 3
  • 1Like
Reactions:

Kuantum

Captain
50 Badges
Jun 24, 2016
408
1.225
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Surviving Mars
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
What about a Ryukyu? You can't do a unscummed Ryukyu... o_O, well, maybe Florryworry can...

But yeah.. I even did a C# app to manage all the scum (because I'm trying a Ryukyu) :rolleyes:

Very useful, in case you do a wrong peace deal.. stupidly annex someone with 3 vassals... lose 20K to naval attrition...
 

Zaddy

Major
20 Badges
Sep 16, 2017
676
2.899
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
I would rather not see a plan get trashed because the streamer misclicked something or made a peacedeal wrong. Also extremely silly RNG (my 20 year old ruler died, etc) I think is fair play for savescumming. Your mileage will obviously vary though.
 
  • 6Like
  • 6
  • 1
Reactions:

micah6vs8

Sergeant
35 Badges
Jan 9, 2014
87
185
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV
I am surprised there is any negative reaction to my statement. Isn't the reality of the situation better then artificiality? People cite misclicks or fringe cases as viable reasons for artificiality. Isn't every plan subject to the blessing or curse of the Fates? Isn't every corner, every nook and cranny, of history filled with this lesson? Including our own life? Why do we watch players play chess? Or football? Or music? Or EU4?

I am afraid that some have made the Perfect the enemy of the Good. That is a closed learning circle, with no or little gaining of competency. It is the hard road.
 
  • 14
  • 5Like
  • 1
Reactions:

Travis_Bickle

Colonel
27 Badges
Dec 30, 2012
1.045
2.566
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV
I really don't like save scumming and have almost never done it in EU4 or any other game. I was shocked to see some Twitch/YouTube EU4 players that I respect do it.

However, I was having the world's fun with my Byzantium save when my heir then ruler died and I got stuck with a Habsburg. He was a 1/0/1, but that's not why I reloaded. I didn't want a Byzantine Habsburg. For me this is beyond cursed and ruined the roleplaying experience I was having, so I reloaded and ended up with a 6/5/5 Greek. I didn't feel guilty for that. I'd already gotten Basileus.

I'd feel I cheated if I save scummed for an achievement, which is something I never have, or never will do. Hell, I even feel guilty when my game legitimately crashes!
 
  • 1Like
  • 1
Reactions:

Reman

Field Marshal
74 Badges
Jun 26, 2010
2.689
3.735
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Hearts of Iron IV: By Blood Alone
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Victoria 2
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Surviving Mars
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
While risk is entertaining, a lot of people watch streamers because they can pull off crazy feats or otherwise break the game. EU4's UI isn't the greatest at the margins, so losing significant progress because the UI said something that wasn't true feels more like remedying a bug than "cheating". Likewise, it can be frustrating to lose a lot of progress due to a simple misclick, and oftentimes making up for said progress in-game would amount to doing the same actions again, so savescumming is just faster.

That said, savescumming when your 6/4/4 heir dies at 45 is less defensible. You got bad RNG, but this game has tons of RNG, that mostly cancels out over the long-term, so...
 
  • 13Like
  • 6
Reactions:

darth254

Major
8 Badges
Mar 10, 2015
600
891
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
I am surprised there is any negative reaction to my statement. Isn't the reality of the situation better then artificiality? People cite misclicks or fringe cases as viable reasons for artificiality. Isn't every plan subject to the blessing or curse of the Fates? Isn't every corner, every nook and cranny, of history filled with this lesson? Including our own life? Why do we watch players play chess? Or football? Or music? Or EU4?

I am afraid that some have made the Perfect the enemy of the Good. That is a closed learning circle, with no or little gaining of competency. It is the hard road.

I generally agree. I don't consider it "save scumming" if it is due legit wonky bugs, glitches, crashes, etc.

but yeah, doing stuff to selectively maximize luck is asterisk-worthy. "blah blah blah was unfair" .... play through it.
 
  • 3Like
  • 1
Reactions:

Blk82

Lt. General
13 Badges
Sep 8, 2018
1.517
2.511
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Victoria 2
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
A lot of mechanics do force a save-scum, for example, ruler death. The player shouldn't stand idle for up to 15 years just because of one bad RNG event that the player has not control over.
 
  • 7
  • 3
Reactions:

Zaddy

Major
20 Badges
Sep 16, 2017
676
2.899
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
I am surprised there is any negative reaction to my statement. Isn't the reality of the situation better then artificiality? People cite misclicks or fringe cases as viable reasons for artificiality. Isn't every plan subject to the blessing or curse of the Fates? Isn't every corner, every nook and cranny, of history filled with this lesson? Including our own life? Why do we watch players play chess? Or football? Or music? Or EU4?

I am afraid that some have made the Perfect the enemy of the Good. That is a closed learning circle, with no or little gaining of competency. It is the hard road.
Chess has no RNG or lying or silly UI that results in mistakes.

Never cared for sports.

Not sure how music is really related honestly.

I watch EU4 to see someone doing something unique. It's more annoying to see the game getting in the way of that by putting the streamer into a regency or having the UI mislead them. I do not understand (what I presume to be) your argument that working around the garbage UI or extreme RNG to be any form of learning. The only thing you "learn" from getting a regency was "have better luck next time."
 
  • 9
  • 2Like
  • 1
Reactions:

SwordofKhaine123

Corporal
Dec 31, 2020
37
31
I just started playing, and from what I've seen on Youtube the game is quite an investment in terms of time. Personally I think it's okay to reload saves if that means you don't have to restart the entire playthrough.
 
  • 3Like
Reactions:

Forderz

Sergeant
69 Badges
May 29, 2013
87
284
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Magicka
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Age of Wonders
  • Age of Wonders II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
Listen, when the infertile queen of castile loses her heir at 59, I'm getting the claim throne. O don't care if she lives to 72 and has 7 kids before that, I'm getting the damn PU
 
  • 1Like
  • 1
  • 1Haha
Reactions:

iClipse

Colonel
18 Badges
Jul 17, 2019
880
2.529
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV
The only time I savescum is if the UI literally lies to me, or if it's a blatant misclick. I use the letter 'c' a lot to confirm events. If I however accidently accept an automatic peace offer from the primary war participant just because it was hidden between the other 50 events I received that day, then, yeah. I savescum.

However, nothing ever related to rng. Your 6/6/6 dies at age 20? Tough luck. Your siege is at progress 99% while the opponent sieged 3 forts in the same time with less siege ability? Could have planned for it.
 
  • 3
  • 1Like
  • 1
Reactions:

TheMeInTeam

Field Marshal
54 Badges
Dec 27, 2013
30.268
18.942
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Prison Architect
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Magicka 2
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Magicka
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
Very different opinion on OP's take depending on whether the reason for reloading is to pursue better RNG/negate bad RNG, vs the game lying to the player/undoing a bug etc.

I can respect preferring not to watch the former. I do not respect lumping the latter in with savescumming, however.
 
  • 6
  • 1Like
Reactions:

wielkiciensteam

aka ItsJustMyShadow
94 Badges
Jan 31, 2016
1.006
2.035
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Surviving Mars
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Cities: Skylines - Campus
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Victoria 2
Average EU4 campaign takes me something like 10-15 hours (up to 1650-1700) depending on the tag difficulty. Having my campaign utterly ruined by game in the mid of the campaign and not save-scamming is like wasting several hours of my life. And I really play this game to enjoy my time, not waste it. My main reason for save scamming is probably loosing PU's - just recently my 30 yo ruler died 3 year after forcing PU on other tag and I was on the way to improve relations to positive just so that they wouldn't break away after monarch death. I was like -10 when he died and lost PU so just 3 more months and I would be ok. I understand that this is RNG etc. but c'man - 300k men lost to nothing?
UI bugs and misclicks are also understandable reasons to save-scam. This is a game that we should enjoy - there is a difference between rushing unprepared for war or taking too much AE and facing coalition and thing that could easily be avoided if the game worked differently or if the player would be more concentrated.
I sometimes save-scam too much and most of that time I end up leaving my campaign even if I'm close to achievement - it just doesn't feel fun anymore if I know that the victory was achieved because of "cheating".
So I guess everyone should have his own moral code and alone decide whether it's ok to cheat or not, even in Ironman games (did you know that WeMod lets you enter console commands in Ironman mode so you can even WC in 1444? Possibility is here - it's up to you to decide whether you'll use it). It's your game, your time, your money well spent of dozens of DLCs. Your rules. And all anti-cheat/anti-save-scam crusaders should just go and play and enjoy the game the way they like, not teach others.
 
  • 5Like
  • 2
Reactions: