Delay till end of Q2?

[KyleJ]

It's just a discussion to see whether or not it might be a good idea, there seems to be a few issues with the game that could easily be fixed with time and thought, although I know that budgeting may be an issue when post-poning a game an additional 2-3 months if a majority of us think that they need to have 2-3 months of additional development then they ought to take that time, no?

• Building Variety
• Old Building Architecture
• Optional Architecture (Through City/District Policies)
• Influential City Styles (Through City/District Policies - I.E Legalising Gambling will grow casinos in the area)
• Additional Services/Plopables (EG: Recycling Plants, Fishing Docks, Prisons, Army Bases, Missile Silo (massive unhappiness in the area but paid for having it in the city), Toxic Waste Dump (massive pollution but paid for having it in the city) etc etc.

And probably more could be done if they (You CO) took some additional time on the games development, this game has the ability to knock SimCity off of its podium and seriously create an amazing game.

Though the only way they would do this is if they had a solid request, of-course if you don't think its a good idea please say and we can discuss it!

But as amazing as this game is, and as beautiful as it is, I think there are a few more things that need looking into.

 

[Sinname]

+1

Trams and bicycles should be added as well

 

[medopu]

Please don't forget about:

*day-night / rush-hour integration
*terraforming
*tunnels
*W2W buildings

 

[KyleJ]

Okay this is becoming a little more then 2-3 months additional development... xD

 

[Greygor69]

In all honesty, No.

Release the game with the core features on time. Give players a chance to play it, see what works, what doesn't.

After that address players requests.


I would think from a pure financial point of view to delay release would be a nightmare, while the games not out there there's no revenue. Once released the devs will get a cleare picture of the response to the game and then plan for and fund the development of the most requested features.

 

[Chaapa]

Not to be evil against Paradox but if you look at how they manage CKII, EUIV or CiM (1 and 2) they are obviously milking the buyer by creating a perfectly fine base-game, but then adding tons of downloadable content which very well could have, and 10 years ago, would have been a part of the standard game.

The likelihood that they wouldn't do this now again is minimal. Expect CS to be a base game, and the expect a DLC after a couple of months. Hopefully they won't produce a second version all too soon (CiM2), thereby damaging the brand since people will spend a lot of dosh on the first game. It creates bad blood. If I didn't like Paradox and the games they bring out, then I wouldn't be that keen on buying their products. Like in the case of EA and The Sims and the hundreds of expansions they have... well. You know. Bad blood and poor public relations leads to non-cooperation through some "arr matey"-action.

 

[KyleJ]

In all honesty, No.

Release the game with the core features on time. Give players a chance to play it, see what works, what doesn't.

After that address players requests.


I would think from a pure financial point of view to delay release would be a nightmare, while the games not out there there's no revenue. Once released the devs will get a cleare picture of the response to the game and then plan for and fund the development of the most requested features.

Whilst I agree all of this is possible after release, a lot of people won't know that, a lot of people wouldn't have followed the development and seen that CO intend to continue work on the game.

There's just a few things that I think are a necessity for release, things they seriously need to consider.

The additional and optional architectural styles will certainly add a ton of additional re-playability as cities will have some variety, and mods can be sorted into different styles, whether its Western, European, Modern or Historical, Middle Eastern or Futuristic.

I know there are wonders, which is an amazing idea, but they really need to look at what they've got and realise there is opportune for so much more, like the water, why not add fishing? it just seems logical that you have this really special feature that you use it as much as possible.

Also the UI really needs some additional TLC, something that I think will help a lot also due to the mod support is a search box encase people end up adding hundreds of mods - the RCI needs to show lack of demand as well, like in SimCity 2-3-4, allow RCI to go under-demand.

 

[cd concept]

What really bothers me and needs to be addressed is the smooth streamline flow of the interchanges. They don't have decelerating and accelerating roadways for vehicles to enter and exit one highway to the next. The vehicles look like there going to smash into each other. SiM2 road and rail systems flow more smoothly than CitiesSkyline does. With the technology CO has today from SiM2 there shouldn't be any kinks in the roads when you are bending them. I hate that!!!

 

[Greygor69]

Not to be evil against Paradox but if you look at how they manage CKII, EUIV or CiM (1 and 2) they are obviously milking the buyer by creating a perfectly fine base-game, but then adding tons of downloadable content which very well could have, and 10 years ago, would have been a part of the standard game.

I think I have to object to the term milking. For one thing there far more egregious companies out there which really illustrate this term far better.

A good case in point is EU IV, a game which has seen 4 major DLC's released in the 12 months following the games release. None of those are essential to play the game, in themselves they don't "correct" a game to make it playable/enjoyable (Civ V Gods and Kings & New World Order I'm looking at you here).

Each of the DLC's addressed a part of the game and expanded upon what was already there, Colonisation, Trading, 30 years war and Napoleonics, Merchant Republics.

And anyone who didn't purchase any of these still got balancing, patching and some features for free (funded of course by those who did buy the DLC's ).

Anything else was pure colour and completely unecessary but again provided a revenue stream to fund future stuff.

Far from milking I think this is a pretty fair balance between consumer and developer. Nobody is forced to do anything.

Whilst I agree all of this is possible after release, a lot of people won't know that, a lot of people wouldn't have followed the development and seen that CO intend to continue work on the game.

That could be true but that then becomes an issue of communication, not development. It's probably why TotallyMoo turns up regularly on the Steam forums, why we get videos on Youtube and why, no doubt, some Youtubers will be given release copies to show the game for what it is and what it isn't.

I'm not saying there aren't many things I'd like to see in the game, not least of which is an in game terrain editor.

But there is nothing that I know of that won't be in that intitial launch that would stop me from buying it.

Take a look around these forums, there's virtually 10 different things from every poster here that they all would like to see in the game.

You have to draw a line and say, this is the release state, this is what it will do day one. Everything else, Mañana.

 

[KyleJ]

I think I have to object to the term milking. For one thing there far more egregious companies out there which really illustrate this term far better.

A good case in point is EU IV, a game which has seen 4 major DLC's released in the 12 months following the games release. None of those are essential to play the game, in themselves they don't "correct" a game to make it playable/enjoyable (Civ V Gods and Kings & New World Order I'm looking at you here).

Each of the DLC's addressed a part of the game and expanded upon what was already there, Colonisation, Trading, 30 years war and Napoleonics, Merchant Republics.

And anyone who didn't purchase any of these still got balancing, patching and some features for free (funded of course by those who did buy the DLC's ).

Anything else was pure colour and completely unecessary but again provided a revenue stream to fund future stuff.

Far from milking I think this is a pretty fair balance between consumer and developer. Nobody is forced to do anything.



That could be true but that then becomes an issue of communication, not development. It's probably why TotallyMoo turns up regularly on the Steam forums, why we get videos on Youtube and why, no doubt, some Youtubers will be given release copies to show the game for what it is and what it isn't.

I'm not saying there aren't many things I'd like to see in the game, not least of which is an in game terrain editor.

But there is nothing that I know of that won't be in that intitial launch that would stop me from buying it.

Take a look around these forums, there's virtually 10 different things from every poster here that they all would like to see in the game.

You have to draw a line and say, this is the release state, this is what it will do day one. Everything else, Mañana.

Understand fully, and as the game is I'll probably buy it as Colossal Order want to keep building the game up after release, it looks like a beautiful game. I guess its more to do with making sure that the game is as full as possible before launching, there's no denying that there are a few issues that need looking into.

 

[Greygor69]

Understand fully, and as the game is I'll probably buy it as Colossal Order want to keep building the game up after release, it looks like a beautiful game. I guess its more to do with making sure that the game is as full as possible before launching, there's no denying that there are a few issues that need looking into.

Yep, I also want my W2W buildings, big farms, modular docks, airports and freight stations, and so many other things.

However, if the core product works that's 90% of what I want, I can wait for Desert after the main course

 

[Leermeister]

looks like an expansion is what you want.

But honestly how can you know if something needs to be delayed or not if you have never played it?

And knocking sim city off a podium wouldn't require this extra stuff, it would be really easy---it would just have to function.
The core of this game already contains more depth then sim city, 2 years after SC release. Really all you have to do to beat SC is make it so the game doesn't crash every 5 minutes. wont be a problem , games not on-line.

Whats SC2013 on a podium for anyway is it giving a commencement speech at poop university? trust me u don't want to be on SC2013s podium

Like saying you need more time to upgrade your corvettes engine to beat a 1953 VW Beetle in a race.

 

[KyleJ]

looks like an expansion is what you want.

But honestly how can you know if something needs to be delayed or not if you have never played it?

And knocking sim city off a podium wouldn't require this extra stuff, it would be really easy---it would just have to function.
The core of this game already contains more depth then sim city, 2 years after SC release. Really all you have to do to beat SC is make it so the game doesn't crash every 5 minutes. wont be a problem , games not on-line.

Whats SC2013 on a podium for anyway is it giving a commencement speech at poop university? trust me u don't want to be on SC2013s podium

Like saying you need more time to upgrade your corvettes engine to beat a 1953 VW Beetle in a race.

SimCity as in the franchise, not the crappy 2013 game.

The game as its moving is great its the game a lot of city building fans want, In no way do I think this game is bad I think its fantastic, It's just I think there are a few things they need to look into that they have said before because of time they are unable too before release. Of course a lot of things will be added afterwards, its just a discussion and I understand what you are saying.

Its not really extra stuff though... its things people are requesting highly (variety, optional building styles, older architecture etc.)

 

[Leermeister]

SimCity as in the franchise, not the crappy 2013 game.

The game as its moving is great its the game a lot of city building fans want, In no way do I think this game is bad I think its fantastic, It's just I think there are a few things they need to look into that they have said before because of time they are unable too before release. Of course a lot of things will be added afterwards, its just a discussion and I understand what you are saying.

Its not really extra stuff though... its things people are requesting highly (variety, optional building styles, older architecture etc.)

Sim citys franchise is a memory, they have not released a decent game in 12 years. You will never be able to remove the sim city name unless you went back in time to become the 1st city builder in the late 80s.
All the franchise is, is a memory of a classic that was a good game in the early 90s. youll never be able to knock a model T off its podium or a Commodore 64, they are there for their place in time.

That being said if the core of Cities skylines works well it will have beaten everything in the genre here in 2015, and would make more sense from a business standpoint to release all the stuff you listed as an expansion a few months after release.

the only reason to delay would be to work out bugs with the core game, if the games mostly bug free they can expand it after release.

 

[KyleJ]

ignore sorreh

 

[Leermeister]

Too me those features in brackets seem like core game features... how is adding more building variety a good DLC idea? You've got to remember that you know about the development of C:SL and the path CO are taking. A majority will just see it on steam or through youtube, screenshots etc

because people will buy expansions with more buildings like they do in every single game that sells dlc. That's why its a good idea. It makes money. If we waited for every possible gameplay element in EU4 , wed still be waiting for eu4 to be released. But no we buy the expansions.

Unless you have played the game or are on the development team i hardly think you can say wither or not a delay is required. You've seen some pics and a couple vids, read some dev diary, that's about it.

'Optional Architecture (Through City/District Policies)
Influential City Styles (Through City/District Policies - I.E Legalising Gambling will grow casinos in the area)
Additional Services/Plopables (EG: Recycling Plants, Fishing Docks, Prisons, Army Bases, Missile Silo (massive unhappiness in the area but paid for having it in the city), Toxic Waste Dump (massive pollution but paid for having it in the city) etc etc.'

the ect ect ect thing is great too, you think these are core features that's you, but if you keep adding ect, we can wait till 2020 or untill the invention of the holodeck for the true greatest city simulator ever.

I mean really the game will be playable without missile silos and army bases, these are core features to you? really?

would be great in an expansion but hardly the core of the game.

 

[Ne0Que]

No,

All your points could be added through patches. And like the dev's already explained: Building variety is something for the Modders. 10.000 modders can add more buildings than a team of 40 people. So don't delay a game because of building variety. Your architecture points are exactly the same as 'building variety'. No. release the game and add (tram etc) features later on in a 'rush hour expansion pack'. Because after release, modders can do what you want. I can't believe people are actually begging for a delay? What the hell is wrong with you people!? The game already works great. After release patch things up. Polish it.

 

[KyleJ]

because people will buy expansions with more buildings like they do in every single game that sells dlc. That's why its a good idea. It makes money. If we waited for every possible gameplay element in EU4 , wed still be waiting for eu4 to be released. But no we buy the expansions.

Unless you have played the game or are on the development team i hardly think you can say wither or not a delay is required. You've seen some pics and a couple vids, read some dev diary, that's about it.

'Optional Architecture (Through City/District Policies)
Influential City Styles (Through City/District Policies - I.E Legalising Gambling will grow casinos in the area)
Additional Services/Plopables (EG: Recycling Plants, Fishing Docks, Prisons, Army Bases, Missile Silo (massive unhappiness in the area but paid for having it in the city), Toxic Waste Dump (massive pollution but paid for having it in the city) etc etc.'

the ect ect ect thing is great too, you think these are core features that's you, but if you keep adding ect, we can wait till 2020 or untill the invention of the holodeck for the true greatest city simulator ever.

I mean really the game will be playable without missile silos and army bases, these are core features to you? really?

would be great in an expansion but hardly the core of the game.

1) I meant the optional buildings and more variety of buildings seem like core features, not my main post, sorry I wasn't clear - as why I removed the post as I didn't want to stir things up with my 2am english skills.

2) It was a mere discussion as I said, not a decision or a demand.

Also I use etc to keep my options open, to allow myself to add things if necessary, like I said it was just a discussion of the topic... no need to be a such arse about it...

No,

All your points could be added through patches. And like the dev's already explained: Building variety is something for the Modders. 10.000 modders can add more buildings than a team of 40 people. So don't delay a game because of building variety. Your architecture points are exactly the same as 'building variety'. No. release the game and add (tram etc) features later on in a 'rush hour expansion pack'. Because after release, modders can do what you want. I can't believe people are actually begging for a delay? What the hell is wrong with you people!? The game already works great. After release patch things up. Polish it.

What the hell is wrong with you people? really... wow. Anyway It was a discussion of the idea, if a game were to be delayed for basic additional features and polishing I don't understand why that requires an outburst of "What the hell is wrong with you people"... you can take GTA V for PC for example, I'm guessing if it were your decision it would have been released a year ago without the new features, PC/Next-Gen exclusive graphics upgrades, full compatibility and so on, just get it out there! modders can fix it later! /s

Leermeister I fully understand where you're coming from and I agree that they will most likely add these things after launch, which is good, great infact, it was just a discussion to how many people wanted them to be in before launch or after - I am for before, but I'm not going to die a horrible death if they're done after, as you said, they could be considered DLC.

Although I am partially torn... I like the idea that months after release the developers are still adding new features and creating DLC, keeping the base game fresh almost as if there's always something new to play with, but I just personally think there are a few things missing (More building variety! not the other stuff they were just cool ideas that I though welp may aswell add them!)

I don't like that this topic has kind of become hostile... damn we're passionate xD

 

[Leermeister]

1) I meant the optional buildings and more variety of buildings seem like core features, not my main post, sorry I wasn't clear - as why I removed the post as I didn't want to stir things up with my 2am english skills.

2) It was a mere discussion as I said, not a decision or a demand.

Also I use etc to keep my options open, to allow myself to add things if necessary, like I said it was just a discussion of the topic... no need to be a such arse about it...



What the hell is wrong with you people? really... wow. Anyway It was a discussion of the idea, if a game were to be delayed for basic additional features and polishing I don't understand why that requires an outburst of "What the hell is wrong with you people"... you can take GTA V for PC for example, I'm guessing if it were your decision it would have been released a year ago without the new features, PC/Next-Gen exclusive graphics upgrades, full compatibility and so on, just get it out there! modders can fix it later! /s

Leermeister I fully understand where you're coming from and I agree that they will most likely add these things after launch, which is good, great infact, it was just a discussion to how many people wanted them to be in before launch or after - I am for before, but I'm not going to die a horrible death if they're done after, as you said, they could be considered DLC.

Although I am partially torn... I like the idea that months after release the developers are still adding new features and creating DLC, keeping the base game fresh almost as if there's always something new to play with, but I just personally think there are a few things missing (More building variety! not the other stuff they were just cool ideas that I though welp may aswell add them!)

I don't like that this topic has kind of become hostile... damn we're passionate xD

oh, no problem
I wont mind buying dlc just cant wait for this

 

[charlesnew]

I don't think they need to delay it for things like that. These things can get added after the game is released, and I don't see the point in waiting longer for the game's release, if they can be added while we play it.