DEG HoI House Rules

[unmerged(15723)]

There are two issues with this that can't really be solved with rules and this is kind of OT.

1st - Landing vessels should be more expensive and/or maybe distinct different units than transporters.

2nd - Larger seabourne invasion force should suffer more from stacking penalties than other attacks. If only because the naval operations is complicated and hard to coordinate.

 

[unmerged(14035)]

Size of beach garrisons:
If I recall correctly, there are 12 or 13 beaches for Germany to guard (from Denmark to southwestern France). Having a large number of divs on each beach costs a huge amount of IC and MP. Usually the beaches are left to second-class units from Balkan minors, and nowhere near 24 divs per beach (usually 3-5 divs per beach).

6 divisions too little?:
Attacking and winning on a above mentioned beach should be possible with 6 divisions. Sure, it might not be very easy with 6 vanilla inf, but this is the whole point. Invasions should require better units (marines, tanks, some nice brigades), air support (no more landing 24 divs in Hamburg without air cover), use of paratroopers (have you ever seen people use paras in HoI like they were used in WWII?) and some BB support (no more 24 TP escorted by only subs).

Concerning how to limit the invasion force:
We used the TP/10 rule in one of our DEG games (during 1.05c). It did work rather well, most invasions were only a few divisions (2-3). But the system we used in the latest 39'ers game (max = 6) was a lot better, since it is simple to use and simple to remember. I guess you could combine the two systems (like TP/10, with absolute cap at 6, or something similar), but this only complicates things. I am in favor of simple house rules, and the max 6 rule is just that: simple.

Remember that the rule works both ways. Max 6 divs does make it harder for UK/USA to make a D-Day landing, but it also makes it harder for Germany to pull off Seelöwe.

 

[juv95hrn]

The rules are good.

About SR:
My opinion is that only SR out of a totally encircled locations is an exploit, here not even disbandment should be allowed. All other SR could as well be allowed although its not perfect as it is.

About deployment pool:
I see no problem in training conscripted recruits, keeping them in reserve until hostilities begin at which time you deploy them to fight. The ledger makes this feature even more appealing to me since otherwise player would be able to pinpoint every single unit you own. About balance all nations will save supply doing this. I cant see the why there is such fuzz about doing this?

Invasions:
A limit is good, which one is less important. 6? 4/1? 10/1? Take a vote at the campaigns start. Probably 4/1 rounded down capped at 6 would be the best solution. This rule isnt too complicated compared to the game we are playing.

Tech share:
Less of a problem in 1.06. Depends on what game you want to play.

 

[Citizen_X]

My opinion about land is that we cant limit the number, the better is that we must need X number of tranports per Divison, because if is unrealistic/unhistorical do a disembarck wich 12 divisions, less realistic is see 20 divisions in Gibraltar( 200000 men?) when this ve a size of 6 km, and his current population is only 7000 population; same wich another islands...

 

[juv95hrn]

My opinion about land is that we cant limit the number, the better is that we must need X number of tranports per Divison, because if is unrealistic/unhistorical do a disembarck wich 12 divisions, less realistic is see 20 divisions in Gibraltar( 200000 men?) when this ve a size of 6 km, and his current population is only 7000 population; same wich another islands...

I think that limiting the size of amphibious landings have less to do with issues of realism than play balance.

 

[unmerged(9612)]

Rulez

Some more rules for your conisderation... some you have covered, some are reworded different, some you have not covered

Puppets
Puppeting a country run by a human player is not allowed
The Liberating Puppet option of the diplomatic menu is not allowed

Coups and government types
Couping a country run by a human player is not allowed
The players/teams may not undertake actions leading to changing the initial government types of the USA, UK, Germany, Italy, Japan (after the 1937 election), Italy and USSR (i.e: USA must remain democratic, SU communist, etc....)

Nukes
No nukes

Neutrals
No attack from neutral territory or ships
No landing in/flying over neutral countries

Convoy Escorts
No more than 20 escorts per convoy

Supplies
A country may not send supplies to another country that is at war if the sending country itself is not at war with all the ennemies of the receiving country. This does not apply to lend lease events (example: if Germany is at war with the UK and the Soviet Union and Japan is at war with UK but not with SU then Japan may not send supplies to Germany).
A country that has under 500 supplies in stock may not voluntarily underproduce supplies (i.e. the supply slider may not be in the red)

Military access:

Military access can only be requested to allied countries or countries that are at war with at least one of the requesting country's ennemies. Military access not fulfilling these criteria must be revoked as soon as possible.

For these purposes SU is considered in a separate alliance and thus may never receive or send exp forces to/from UK/USA and their allies nor grant/receive military access from them

France
At his option one of the Allies may opt to play France and then USA. He may switch at any time of his choosing. Vichy must be accepted if it is offered by Germany. Further it is not allowed to disband any French unit nor to position more than 12 French ground/air units outside of French controlled territory in Europe until such time as either Vichy occurs or is declined by Germany. During that time the French fleet may not be based outside of metropolitan France and may only be positionned in the Mediterranean or up to 4 sea zones away from metropolitan France (exception up to 3 transports may be anywhere)

China
At his option one of the Allies may opt to play China and then USA. He may switch at any time of his choosing. China may only join the Allies and only after the USA is in the war. China may only ever dow Communist China or Sinkiang, and only if they are not part of any alliance.

Events/Diplomacy

We will attempt to "manually fire" events that do not occur due to bugs, where possible. Events that "refire" on reload will be edited where possible. If a player has the option to "refire" an already occurred event on reload (via a Yes/No text box) he must decline.

Japanese elections will be edited if they have not occurred August 1, 1937. Japan may NOT join the axis prior to becoming paternal autocrat or fascist. Japan MUST either join the axis no later than September 1, 1943 0:00 or declare war on the UK or USA by that date.

Anschluss must occur (the game will be either restarted from the March 1, 1938 autosave or the event fired manually, if it does not or if Austria remains independant ) even if Germany is at war.

US must elect Roosevelt in 1940

Ethiopia may not join any alliance

Allies may not dow the USA directly or indirectly (e.g. dowing some south american country to activate the Monroe doctrine is not allowed)

 

[unmerged(8114)]

I think the list would be shorter if you settle for house-rules that describe what is allowed in the game, rather than listing what is forbidden.

 

[unmerged(16124)]

I think the list would be shorter if you settle for house-rules that describe what is allowed in the game, rather than listing what is forbidden.

Yepp.....but then you will have alot of people that loves to powergame....

 

[unmerged(8114)]

Yepp.....but then you will have alot of people that loves to powergame....

No powerplay possible:

Houserules:

1) Everything that is not explicitly allowed in the rules is forbidden
2) You are allowed to move troops from one province to the other
3) You are allowed to produce troops
4) You are allowed to do research
5) You are allowed to produce supplies
6) You are allowed to produce consumer goods

You think it is far fetched? For a NatChina player the 6 rules above have the same outcome as the dozends "you are not allowed to ..." rules that were proposed here.

 

[unmerged(16124)]

No powerplay possible:

Houserules:

1) Everything that is not explicitly allowed in the rules is forbidden
2) You are allowed to move troops from one province to the other
3) You are allowed to produce troops
4) You are allowed to do research
5) You are allowed to produce supplies
6) You are allowed to produce consumer good

You think it is far fetched? For a NatChina player the 6 rules above have the same outcome as the dozends "you are not allowed to ..." rules that were proposed here.

Thats the point....everyone knows this and accept it, the problem is that human players dont follow rules like a computer, they try find loopholes;

Some countries need "special" rules for gamebalance and the rules above are great for Nat.China but will probably be longer for France. Btw I dont see the problem with adding more rules, most rules are common and used by everyone, its better to have it on black and white then not at all.

 

[unmerged(15723)]

Thats the point....everyone knows this and accept it, the problem is that human players dont follow rules like a computer, they try find loopholes;

Some countries need "special" rules for gamebalance and the rules above are great for Nat.China but will probably be longer for France. Btw I dont see the problem with adding more rules, most rules are common and used by everyone, its better to have it on black and white then not at all.

Indeed. Most of these rules are things that if they are not agreed upon on beforehand they will be discussed ingame and cause disputes and unnecessary disagreements.

 

[unmerged(14035)]

Indeed. Most of these rules are things that if they are not agreed upon on beforehand they will be discussed ingame and cause disputes and unnecessary disagreements.

Not to mentioned wasted game time. I remember one of our recent games, where the game was paused around 1 billion times in order to discuss the changing or adding of various rules. It's always best to get things sorted out before the campaign starts.

 

[unmerged(14035)]

Updated the first post on this thread, now called version 1.03. Post any comments here (especially concerning amphibious landings, unit deployments and tech share = points 2.3, 2.7, 2.8 and 3.12).

 

[Citizen_X]

Updated the first post on this thread, now called version 1.03. Post any comments here (especially concerning amphibious landings, unit deployments and tech share = points 2.3, 2.7, 2.8 and 3.12).

I continue wichout agree wich landing rules.

 

[unmerged(14035)]

After discussion with Tuuttu I did some minor changes, now called version 1.031. Changes include:

2.7: added a clarification about not allowing moving of units in production que to delay their completion

2.10: not allowed to fire/accept events that fire during each start-up (like the Lend-Lease events)

3.7: expeditionary forces: you can only send to human countries in your alliance (only exception is the Spanish Civil War)

 

[unmerged(15723)]

I think the following should be included in 2.7 (which it was):
"A province invaded by the enemy counts as an enemy province."

Otherwise it is possible to strat deploy into a seabourne invasion.

3.5:

3.5 Military access: You can not ask for military access (exception: you can ask military access from a puppet you control). You may only base your units in a country in your alliance (you don’t need military access for this). In other words, you may not refuel aircraft of ships in any country that is not in your alliance. You may not attack from neutral land or make an amphibious assault from neutral ships. (example: a non-Axis Japan may not have their units on German or Italian soil, the UK and USA may not have their units on Soviet soil and vice versa, Japan can not refuel their fleet in Brazil)

Should be replaced with:

3.5 Military access: You can not ask for military access (exception: you can ask military access from a puppet you control). You may only base your units, refuel aircrafts or ships in a nation in your alliance (you don’t need military access for this) or a nation that is your puppet. You may not attack from neutral land or make an amphibious assault from neutral ships. (example: a non-Axis Japan may not have their units on German or Italian soil, the UK and USA may not have their units on Soviet soil and vice versa, Japan can not refuel their fleet in Brazil)

Otherwise it is not allowed to keep troops in your puppets territory unless you belong to one of the coded alliances. E.g. Japan can't have troops in Manchuoku until Japan/Manchuou joins Axis.

 

[unmerged(14035)]

After suggestions from Aldo I edited the house rules again, now called v1.032.

Changes made:
2.8: Added restrictions for strat redeploying into provinces where combat is taking place
3.5: Changed the text to allow non-alliance nations to be able to base their troops in provinces that belong to their puppets

Concerning strat redeploying into a combat: I think I've tried this, and from what I remember it doesnt work. The new division just sits there and does nothing, simply watching the fight. But I added the changes anyway, just in case.

 

[unmerged(16124)]

?

I see your point but it feels more like wordplaying, since its allowed to have troops in puppets you controll - I dont see the problem with Japan having them in Machukko even with the old rule.

Why not just replace it all with;

You are never allowed to ask for millitary acess (exception: you can ask for military access from a puppet your alliance control).

 

[unmerged(15723)]

I see your point but it feels more like wordplaying, since its allowed to have troops in puppets you controll - I dont see the problem with Japan having them in Machukko even with the old rule.

Why not just replace it all with;

You are never allowed to ask for millitary acess (exception: you can ask for military access from a puppet your alliance control).

It is certainly wordplaying. Your suggestion would be shorter but just as good as far as I reckon.

3.5 Military access: You can not ask for military access (exception: you can ask military access from a puppet you control). You may only base your units, refuel aircrafts or ships in a nation in your alliance (you don’t need military access for this) or a nation that is your puppet. You may not attack from neutral land or make an amphibious assault from neutral ships. (example: a non-Axis Japan may not have their units on German or Italian soil, the UK and USA may not have their units on Soviet soil and vice versa, Japan can not refuel their fleet in Brazil)

Could be be shortened to:

3.5 Military access: You may not ask for military access (exception: you can ask military access from a puppet you control). You may not attack from neutral land or make an amphibious assault from neutral ships.

Further restrictions regarding where you can base your troops/ships/planes would be unnecessary. You will get MA from your puppets when not in alliance and you will get automatic MA from all your allies (including their puppets) when you are in an allience.

 

[unmerged(14035)]

Changed the house rules again, now called v1.033.

Changes:
3.5: Shortened it all down to about 1/3 of previous text, from Aldos example. I guess there is no need for the "example: bla bla bla" stuff, since you can't ask for military access anyway.