DEFINITELY more diplomacy

[DesertSnow]

I miss some of diplomatic options that can be found in other paradox games.

1. Add a "guarantee independence" option. If I am Rome, and Illyria is almost conquered by Macedonia, i should be able to strike a deal with the Illyrians.

2. Add a "sell province" option, so that i can finally give my allies, the Egyptians, the lands they have cores in (or have the same culture).

3. Generally, i can't understand why Paradox gave their new game such a "poor" diplomatic system, when they could have implemented a lot of the choices present in EU3 and it's expansions.

 

[Kasimal]

1) guarantee independence? This is not hoi, indepent states are not even invented. Other countries are either allies or trade partners or to be feared or to be ignored or to be conquered, nothing else. If you want an ally try to get one, peace time is the ideal time to make some diplomatic offers like that. In war countries have other things to do than asking every john and bob for want to be my ally. If you want to attack Macedonia do so, Illyria is nothing to bother for the great empire of rome.

2) Ok cleopatra, i give you this nice little province counting 10000 people of your culture, what do you give me? Are you kidding? What is in the empire stays in the empire, except another empire has the better 'arguments'.

3) seeing such silly suggestion, i understand them adding no other diplomatic options

 

[Fleisch Wanze]

1.) An alliance works somewhat like that.

2.) An idea i do like, at least it offers an alternative to: "ok, we club each other witch hundreds of thousands of dead over this issue."

3.) Right, if someone doesnt want to use it let it be, but this is the contrary of development, taking more and more out of what has been there allready.

4.) Kasimal, where you born this way, or did you have to train it, to behave like an a**hole.

 

[unmerged(102644)]

I would like the option to demand countries to stop trading/allying/allowing access to other countries. Fighting Carthage is a pain when they can go through Egypt's land and I can't.

 

[Swamp Rat]

1) guarantee independence? This is not hoi, indepent states are not even invented. Other countries are either allies or trade partners or to be feared or to be ignored or to be conquered, nothing else. If you want an ally try to get one, peace time is the ideal time to make some diplomatic offers like that. In war countries have other things to do than asking every john and bob for want to be my ally. If you want to attack Macedonia do so, Illyria is nothing to bother for the great empire of rome.

Thats not quite true. Advanced treaties were made and is known as far back as the Ancient Egyptians (the Amarna Letters specifically). Lots of advanced treaties was made between the Greek city states, and the "guarantee independence" option would be somewhat near to the excuse the Romans made for engaging in the Second Punic war. Of course as the guarantee independence would just mean that, an excuse, and nothing else, probably the "warning" option would be a better solution for this.

Overall it seems you concept of the ancient world is way too simplistic, advanced diplomatic options would neither be unrealistic or uncalled for in terms of added gameplay.

 

[Kasimal]

4.) Kasimal, where you born this way, or did you have to train it, to behave like an a**hole.

I have indeed to train to use the right words facing stupid suggestions, but I did quite well I think, maybe you should try that too.

Here are some more stupid suggestions for you to train on:

There should be Aircraftcarriers in EU:Rome (they are in a lot of others paradox-products, arn't they?)
It should be possible to colonise america (c'mon, every bearded viking with a rowboat can do that)
Invention should't stop before rocketscience (Hey, I invent much faster than those silly romans, I even learned how to use electricity posting this, they didn't)
You should be able to create the NATO or the UN (the best alternative to hit each other with clubs is to unite, isn't it?)

hmm no more ideas...maybe I should train stupid suggesting too. Anybody want to give me a second leason?

oh and i have nothing against more content in the game or serious suggestions

Edit: I'm quite sure in the Armarna letter is nothing even near to a guarantee of independence stated, best related contents would be about friendship of countries or beeing vasalls, both existing in EU:Rome too.

 

[JakethX]

i think they should make it so your troops can listen to metallica when thier conquering, that would raise thier morale a bunch dont you think?

 

[DesertSnow]

First, go read a history book. Then you will understand why the comparison you make : "if we add guarantee independence, then we should add aircraft carriers. I am so smart!"

is really out of place.

If you actually knew a b it of history (or even a bit of diplomacy), then you would understand why my proposals are realistic.

A. What is so irrational with having Rome warning Macedonia? Illyria is too close to my borders. If you attack them, i will send my legions against you. This option would actually "add" your military power to the calculations made by the macedonian AI when it decides whether it will declare war against a third party or not.

B. Try to ally with Illyria as Rome and you will understand that the current diplomatic system lacks important options. I can understand why a "safe" Illyria doesn't want an alliance with me even at 200+ relations (different culture/religion), but a "we are fighting for our lives" Illyria should be more eager to accept my help.

When the Athenean league decided to send an armada against the city of Syracuses (in hope of ultimately controlling Sicily), the Spartans were more than eager to help the besieged city, even though they had a truce with athens during that period. I know that the Peloponnesian war is older than the game period, but read some history anyway.

C. Since empires in the game find it appropriate to give land to barbarians in order to secure their borders, why can't i give AWAY some land i don't need in exchange for better relations with a major power? Using/manipulating other nations to achieve your own goals is an ihnerent trait of paradox games.

Finally, an advice for Kasimal: believe me, i have faced people much more irritating (and better at making sarcastic comments) than you. Maybe you found in my post a chance to protest against the "this game sucks" posts found in this forum, but this is not the case. I bought the game the very day it came out, and i enjoy it immensely.

 

[Kasimal]

A) A guarantee of indepence is something different than giving a warning, the first one does not belong here, the second one would be a strange way to interact with ai. In fact I can imagine warnings only in multiplayer, but there is no ingame option needed for such an action. Anyway, warnings is not the topic you tried to start joking about here.

B) So you want an option that lets you declare war by getting into an alliance that is in war already. The game mechanic wants a declaration of war has it's drawbacks. Your way would let you avoid this and so it's not wanted to work like that. If you want to stop them, just declare war. You may even ask for military entrance to fight on illyrian territory and defend them.

C) Sorry i have no clue what you are talking about here. Which empire is giving land to barbarians. How? When? Where?

If you enjoy the game make suggestions that would make it better.

 

[DesertSnow]

First, i am happy we got back to being civil. I thank you for that. And i apologise for my "go read a history book" comment.

A. I prefer "guarantees of independence" (don't get stuck in the name, i just mean a "we cannot tolerate anyone conquering this land" statement), because that would allow more for more specific actions. In order for it not to become gamey, i agree that sth different should be implemented. Using the Illyria-macedonia as an example, i would suggest sth like this:
Rome "guarantees" the illyrian territory, meaning that macedonian AI takes into account your armies before attacking that specific target. If they decide to attack, that gives Rome two choices: either attack Macedonia, taking a
-1 stability hit (so no full casus belli against Macedonia, unless pre-existant), or doing nothing, with a -2 stability hit or some severe diplomatic penalty with other nations of the same culture.

C. I meant the "create client kingdom" option, where you essentially give land to barbarians in exchange for loyalty (and them acting as a shield against other barbarians). So why would an option to offer land to a normal state be unrealistc? It could even serve as a means of securing one's border (i give Egypt their core provinces, so they no longer have a casus belli on me-or even get a more harsh stability hit if they decide to attack me).