Defense platforms continue to be useless

[MGSteve]

This is not a change in 2.3. Nor is it a bug. It is the way the game has been working the last year and a half and it is working as designed.

FTL inhibitors on starbases and planets have stopped fleets from leaving through another lane than they entered by since 2.0. It was a major design change in the 2.0 FTL revamp (as described in this old, old, developer diary on the upcoming FTL changes: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...y-92-ftl-rework-and-galactic-terrain.1052958/)

I'm a bit amazed that you've only noticed it now.

Ah - perhaps this is the key thing I've missed, you can add FTL inhibitors on Planets (which I knew, just didn't realise the significance vs having it on the station before) - I suspect that's what happened here, perhaps with 2.3 the AI builds them a bit more frequently than before.

 

[MGSteve]

But in this case there are no ways to defend or even stall the opponent for any reasonable amount of time.

To be fair, there is - just have a strong base & a fleet nearby. If you're saying that because you're playing wide, that's one of the issues with that play style, your empire can become too wide to defend effectively.

 

[Zoolimar]

To be fair, there is - just have a strong base & a fleet nearby. If you're saying that because you're playing wide, that's one of the issues with that play style, your empire can become too wide to defend effectively.

Or you can just have a big fleet and win. The very problem with current defences is that if you don't have a big fleet they do not give you much of an advantage against an attacker and a lot of the time can be even detrimental to your ability to defend the territory.

 

[Peter Ebbesen]

Ah - perhaps this is the key thing I've missed, you can add FTL inhibitors on Planets (which I knew, just didn't realise the significance vs having it on the station before) - I suspect that's what happened here, perhaps with 2.3 the AI builds them a bit more frequently than before.

That might explain it.

I haven't played with the default AI since 2.0, so I don't know how assiduously the default AI has been building FTL inhibitors (fortresses) on planets in the past.

Be that as it may, the hard block in 2.0+ Stellaris until jump drives become available is a fortress planet in a chokepoint system (and FTL inhibitor tech researched); Enemies either have to find a way around that system using other hyperlane connections or wormholes, or they have to bombard the fortresses on the planet into oblivion, invade the planet successfully, or destroy the planet. (Once jump drives are available it becomes trivial to bypass a fortress system, but the cost of -50% damage and speed during the 200 day cooldown is not negligible if caught by an enemy fleet.)

 

[Beagá]

Platforms are pretty good if you want to spank marauders relatively early. It´s the only situation where you can destroy a fleet by mid game and get all the goodies, specially better thrusters.

Apart from that... well as usual depends on which galaxy people play. In medium or large with standard number of AIs, the galaxy is colonized early and wars happen early as well, so predicting the path of invasion is crucial if you can´t rely on allies for 2 front wars.

 

[Aed]

Yes. Only if they actually destroyed your station you would have a chance to throw them out of your space because they won't be able to repair there or use its guns against you. They'll need to move to their own system with a base that could do repairs and you could take your system back with your fleet while they do it. Or if they try to push into your empire with damaged fleet you could wreck them using your fresh fleet. Either way it's not a given they can get a foothold within your territory.

With how system setup now it favours the attacker. The AI is kind of not very good at exploiting it but players very much could and do use it to their advantage.

Again not seeing a problem here. Your argument seems to be that gaining tactical advantages shouldn't exist because it makes it harder for the other side to win...

And the situation is no different to how planets operate now. If an enemy captures you planet its defence armies regenerate and they can use the planets buildings against you. Why is it fine there but not for stations?

 

[Monturiol]

And the situation is no different to how planets operate now. If an enemy captures you planet its defence armies regenerate and they can use the planets buildings against you. Why is it fine there but not for stations?

Well the obvious answer here is that defense armies are trivial to overcome but fully-spec'd stations aren't.

 

[Rinholm]

Well the obvious answer here is that defense armies are trivial to overcome but fully-spec'd stations aren't.

This is completely backwards, a fortress world or habitat takes far longer to conquer then a bastion does.

 

[Zoolimar]

Again not seeing a problem here. Your argument seems to be that gaining tactical advantages shouldn't exist because it makes it harder for the other side to win...

I'm saying the side that is already winning should not be getting additional advantages. Each time they take a station it means they have a staging point deeper into your empire where they can repair and just wait for reinforcements. Because you can't even remove them from there through attrition due to the fact that they will just repair after each battle.

Compare situations:

1) Current situation - it doesn't matter that their reinforcements arrive slower than yours due to the fact that they can use the base to repair and provide additional fire support allowing them to wait for them as much as they want.
2) Without station - even if they have more powerful fleet and economy it is not a given they can keep pushing forward due to accumulating damage over multiple battles. In this case attacker either needs an overwhelming advantage or actually aiming to try and break the economy before delivering a finishing blow.

And the situation is no different to how planets operate now. If an enemy captures you planet its defence armies regenerate and they can use the planets buildings against you. Why is it fine there but not for stations?

It's not bar the fact that planets with small number of armies are easy to take and fortress worlds would sustain a lot of collateral damage to buildings before falling. There is also the fact that planets can't shoot back.

 

[princess69420]

This is completely backwards, a fortress world or habitat takes far longer to conquer then a bastion does.

wut? my bastions are well over 500k and enemy empires don't even bother to try to invade because of it

 

[krios41]

wut? my bastions are well over 500k and enemy empires don't even bother to try to invade because of it

Because its AI. I bet those 500K is partially due to repeatable techs and therefore that 500K is litle more than an inflated number, not to mention that defense paltforms die so quickly all their theoretical damage outpust is almost purely that: theorethical. It can't shoot if its dead after all.

 

[Beagá]

To be honest if you have 500 k in a system, the game is over because, how large is your fleet? Just DOW and win the game already.

 

[princess69420]

Because its AI. I bet those 500K is partially due to repeatable techs and therefore that 500K is litle more than an inflated number, not to mention that defense paltforms die so quickly all their theoretical damage outpust is almost purely that: theorethical. It can't shoot if its dead after all.

Except they don't die quickly.

 

[princess69420]

To be honest if you have 500 k in a system, the game is over because, how large is your fleet? Just DOW and win the game already.

My fleet is sitting at 7000~ ships and all of my systems have ion cannons and defense platforms. I also use a mod that gives me heavy defense hangar platforms. I plan on conquering the Galaxy once I've dealt with the Crises (and maybe EotC).

 

[PirateJack]

Defence platforms will always be useless simply because the borderline zone where they're just powerful enough to win against an enemy is so small as to be functionally invisible. You will always either be way stronger (in which case there wasn't any point in the platforms) or not strong enough, in which case you'd be better off putting those alloys into a fleet that can defend as well or better than the platforms but can also be used to attack.

 

[Rinholm]

wut? my bastions are well over 500k and enemy empires don't even bother to try to invade because of it

With the way space combat works someone can always stack more fleets then your bastion has fleet power and wipe your bastion because all the fleets can attack you at the same time. With fortress worlds even if an opponent attacks with superior numbers they are limited by how many can attack simutaneously so it takes alot long to conquer a fortified world.

The fact that your bastions are 500k sounds irrelevant at this point in your game since if your sitting at 7000 naval cap Im asumming the ai are all pathetic to you wouldnt attack you anyways.

 

[Person012345]

What the hell do people expect from stations? Do they want them to halt 5x strength endgame crisis fleets in their tracks unsupported? Whilst I'd like to see a little more variety (bringing back the player's ability to build different size and strength platforms etc allowing more buff buildings on the station), they're currently functional. A 50k fleet power station, whilst it's not going to stop an enemy 70k blob fleet, will give you the edge if you also have a 70k blob in the same system. And they will stop minor incursions from non-blobs. This is what they're for. They're not there to stand as an absolute defense for the borders of your empire. If they did that there would be endless crying about it and rightly so as it would make invasion flat out impossible. I'm not sure what exactly you people WANT from defense stations. If that was better defined we could look at ways of making them fit that function. For me they work, they're nto a substitute for fleet but if you're at your cap they're a place to put alloys to give you an edge in fleet combat in certain systems or maybe prevent the enemy from splitting their forces and hitting you in numerous places.

 

[Person012345]

This is not a change in 2.3. Nor is it a bug. It is the way the game has been working the last year and a half and it is working as designed.

FTL inhibitors on starbases and planets have stopped fleets from leaving through another lane than they entered by since 2.0. It was a major design change in the 2.0 FTL revamp (as described in this old, old, developer diary on the upcoming FTL changes: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...y-92-ftl-rework-and-galactic-terrain.1052958/)

I'm a bit amazed that you've only noticed it now.

If I'm not mistaken FTL inhibitors are provided to planets by strongholds and to starbases simply by virtue of being upgraded (provided you have FTL inhibitor tech of course).

 

[Mauer]

What the hell do people expect from stations? Do they want them to halt 5x strength endgame crisis fleets in their tracks unsupported?

I actually had a single station fend off the Khan twice, killing her the second time and granting me her throne lol, they're really strong if you stack home territory bonuses.

 

[Peter Ebbesen]

If I'm not mistaken FTL inhibitors are provided to planets by strongholds and to starbases simply by virtue of being upgraded (provided you have FTL inhibitor tech of course).

Correct: The T1 stronghold and T1 outpost don't provide it, but the T2 fortress and T2+ starbase, starhold etc do.