"Defenders of Dievas" worth it?

[SSA]

If you go unyielding, it's not worth going Defenders of Dievas, so it depends on what nature you want your Romuva religion to be. (Resistant to proselytization doesn't stack). You can go Unyielding and Ancestor Veneration for the same benefits of Defenders of Dievas, with Pagan sainthood added to the mix.

Go either Dogmatic or Proselytization if you want Defenders of Dievas to have full benefits, and maybe take Unreletnting to go with it.
Leadership is up to you, but odds are you will likely be the only Romuva kingdom by the time of reformation, so I don't advise on going Autocephalous.

 

[TheDarkMaster]

Good analysis, thanks for that. I can definitely see how Temporal is the most powerful option, but like you said it is sometimes more interesting to not take the power path. I find that having a High Priest separate from my character makes the religion feel more fleshed out.

Thanks. I did forget to include one more factor about temporal, which is that your moral authority will always be higher with it than any other option. A secular ruler is not randomly generated on succession, so they'll probably have better traits, better diplomacy, and can earn far more piety. The pope is the only theocratic religious leader that can come close, since they're chosen from the College of Cardinals.

Randomly generated religious leaders also have an unfortunate tendency to get the bad priest trait, which gives a -10% modifier to you MA.

 

[eastcoastceojam]

Random question- if you pick Temporal leadership, can your player character also personally own a holy site temple?

I know if you have hierocratic leader and give them a holy site temple, it gives you a +5% to Moral Authority, and helps build up their piety faster. Is this also possible under the temporal setup?

 

[SSA]

Random question- if you pick Temporal leadership, can your player character also personally own a holy site temple?

I know if you have hierocratic leader and give them a holy site temple, it gives you a +5% to Moral Authority, and helps build up their piety faster. Is this also possible under the temporal setup?

You can't hold temples yourself.

 

[Dimitri Cosmos]

Random question- if you pick Temporal leadership, can your player character also personally own a holy site temple?

I know if you have hierocratic leader and give them a holy site temple, it gives you a +5% to Moral Authority, and helps build up their piety faster. Is this also possible under the temporal setup?

You can hold a temple, but you get an opinion penalty for that, as you get notification "The holding is of wrong type".

However, if the priest of the holy site temple is your direct vassal, you still get piety bonus, which is small (+0,05). You can increase that piety bonus by building specific improvements to the temple.

Also, the religion gets +10% moral authority per holy site, not 5%.

 

[eastcoastceojam]

You can hold a temple, but you get an opinion penalty for that, as you get notification "The holding is of wrong type".

Also, the religion gets +10% moral authority per holy site, not 5%.

Thanks, I was thinking that was too good to be true.

The +5% to MA when your religious head holds a holy site is in addition to the usual +10% for having the holy site controlled by your religion. When you are Catholic and the Pope holds Rome, he gets an extra +5% for that, along with the extra MA bonus for his diplomacy stat and his accumulated piety.

 

[Dimitri Cosmos]

Thanks, I was thinking that was too good to be true.

The +5% to MA when your religious head holds a holy site is in addition to the usual +10% for having the holy site controlled by your religion. When you are Catholic and the Pope holds Rome, he gets a +5% for that, along with the MA bonus for his piety and diplomacy.

Hm, I haven't played as a Christian since my learning playtrough as an Irish king. As a pagan, the religion always got 10% MA, if the site was controlled by that religion. But perhaps it's because in its unreformed state it had no religious head and in the reformed state the religious head was me. So I didn't notice the difference, if there even was one.

 

[TheDarkMaster]

Hm, I haven't played as a Christian since my learning playtrough as an Irish king. As a pagan, the religion always got 10% MA, if the site was controlled by that religion. But perhaps it's because in its unreformed state it had no religious head and in the reformed state the religious head was me. So I didn't notice the difference, if there even was one.

That's an entirely different bonus. All religions get +10% if they control the site, 5% if the holder is of that religion and 5% if the top liege is.

In addition to this bonus, there is an extra 5% that can also be earned if the religious head personally controls at least 1 holy site. So you can potentially have 5 separate +10% bonuses from the religion controlling the five holy sites and an extra 5% on top of that if the religious head controls at least one holy site personally.

 

[Dimitri Cosmos]

That's an entirely different bonus. All religions get +10% if they control the site, 5% if the holder is of that religion and 5% if the top liege is.

In addition to this bonus, there is an extra 5% that can also be earned if the religious head personally controls at least 1 holy site. So you can potentially have 5 separate +10% bonuses from the religion controlling the five holy sites and an extra 5% on top of that if the religious head controls at least one holy site personally.

I don't see those 5% here. So, I guess, it's a Christian thing.

 

[TheDarkMaster]

It applies to any religion, as long as the ruler personally has the holy site holding in their demesne list. Since all holy site holdings are temples, this generally is not applicable to temporal religious heads. Only Muslim Caliphs and a temporal Bon Dalai Lama can hold a holy site without penalties. In nearly all starts, the Catholic Pope and the Orthodox Ecclesiastical Patriarch hold holy sites so their religions start with the +5% bonus.

 

[Dimitri Cosmos]

It applies to any religion, as long as the ruler personally has the holy site holding in their demesne list. Since all holy site holdings are temples, this generally is not applicable to temporal religious heads. Only Muslim Caliphs and a temporal Bon Dalai Lama can hold a holy site without penalties. In nearly all starts, the Catholic Pope and the Orthodox Ecclesiastical Patriarch hold holy sites so their religions start with the +5% bonus.

Ok, now, I see what you mean. But yeah, it's not applicable to temporal leaders, unless you don't mind the penalty.

 

[Wakizashi]

It applies to any religion, as long as the ruler personally has the holy site holding in their demesne list. Since all holy site holdings are temples, this generally is not applicable to temporal religious heads. Only Muslim Caliphs and a temporal Bon Dalai Lama can hold a holy site without penalties. In nearly all starts, the Catholic Pope and the Orthodox Ecclesiastical Patriarch hold holy sites so their religions start with the +5% bonus.

So basically, in a Hierocratic system, the ruler can increase the religion's MA by granting temple holdings to the religious leader? Does it have to be the religious head's personal fief, or does it count if I for example transfer vassalage of a temple holding?

 

[eastcoastceojam]

So basically, in a Hierocratic system, the ruler can increase the religion's MA by granting temple holdings to the religious leader? Does it have to be the religious head's personal fief, or does it count if I for example transfer vassalage of a temple holding?

The religious head needs to hold the temple title personally if you want the +5% to MA. And it doesn't stack, so the +5% is the same whether the religious head owns 1 holy site temple or 4 of them.

I think they only way you can pull this off as a Temporal leader is to play as Reformed Bon (they can own temples w/o penalty) or play as Muslim Caliph.

 

[Dimitri Cosmos]

The religious head needs to hold the temple title personally if you want the +5% to MA. And it doesn't stack, so the +5% is the same whether the religious head owns 1 holy site temple or 4 of them.

I think they only way you can pull this off as a Temporal leader is to play as Reformed Bon (they can own temples w/o penalty) or play as Muslim Caliph.

I guess you can play as a temporal head and give your religious head title to one of the holy site temple owners and still get those 5%. But is it worth the hassle of choosing the right priests (who are old enough and don't have children so that the title reverts back to you)? Just look at my screenshot. I easily reached 100%, even with my stupid vassals declaring holy wars that they can't win.

 

[Wakizashi]

By the way, regarding my questionin the OP, I have eventually decided on a Proselytizing/Defenders of Dievas/Unrelenting/Hierocratic combination.

So far it's been working well with the aggressive expansion I've been carrying out. Here's hoping it works out in the long run too.