Defender of the Faith should be fixed

[moorsonthecoast]

It doesn't make sense historically, and isn't terribly fun, that England will be called into a war defending Poland against Muscovy in relation to this title "Defender of the Faith."

What would make sense and would be fun is if the Defender of the Faith benefit did this:

Bonuses:

• Grants Papal Influence bonus (for Catholics). Either this, or it costs, say, 200 Papal Influence to get.
• Tolerance of the true faith bonus
• Manpower/tax bonus in provinces of the true faith
• Religious Unity bonus
• Missionary bonus
• Prestige bonus
• Force religion claim bonus
• AE bonus among co-religionists when annexing, &c., heretics/heathens

Maluses:

• Manpower/tax malus in heretic provinces, larger for heathen provinces.
• Larger stacks of heathen/heretic rebels.
• Maluses to tolerance of heretics.
• Large maluses to tolerance of heathens.
• Relations hit against heretics/heathens
• Reputation hit against heretics/heathens

Also, it should not be claimed only by male monarchs, as this doesn't make any damn sense.

Multiple countries should be able to claim it at once.

yerm says:

I would argue it should be a prestige and legitimacy boost, a corresponding religious value boost (PI, piety, PA, etc), and allow relation-free guarantees for the same faith, possibly with a cap on how many of these you can toss around. The missionary is fine too.

The cost would be serious relations hit with heretics and heathens. I think -tolerance might even help balance it.

The military and tech aspects, not sure why they're there, and while it would really suck to lose the -WE aspect (the reason to grab it) I think it should go. It's honestly kind of OP for its -WE anyway.

 

[Subbak]

This would radically change what DoF does and radically alter Russian and Ethiopian (and QQ/Bahmanis, to a lesser extent, as you still have to wait for the other to die) strategies. Free DoF when no one else has your religion is great. On the other hand, it would probably be a positive change.

I think it could be interesting to replicate some of the function of the old one by allowing you to guarantee countries of your religion without using a dip relation slot, and costing you extra prestige when you refuse defensive call to wars to protect the true faith against heretics or heathens. If this is done, it could be possible to keep the -WE aspect in, as you really don't want to refuse any call to arms.

Another thing I'd do is to not other with a PI cost or bonus, but require that catholics have >0 relations with the pope to get DoF. I'd also add a relation boost with countries of same religion, which would imply a small PI bonus since the Pope is catholic.

 

[moorsonthecoast]

Allowing to claim it for free when you are the only country of your religion is an excellent idea. I had no idea that was a feature. (Sort of new, only 140 hours in.)

Also excellent:

I think it could be interesting to replicate some of the function of the old one by allowing you to guarantee countries of your religion without using a dip relation slot, and costing you extra prestige when you refuse defensive call to wars to protect the true faith against heretics or heathens. If this is done, it could be possible to keep the -WE aspect in, as you really don't want to refuse any call to arms.

Another thing I'd do is to not other with a PI cost or bonus, but require that catholics have >0 relations with the pope to get DoF. I'd also add a relation boost with countries of same religion, which would imply a small PI bonus since the Pope is catholic.

Maybe that last part can be a free dip relation status. Ask other countries to vouch for you. Or, more simply, make it a soft check from other countries nearby. Median reputation from all coreligionists you know of? (Median rather than average.)

 

[ringhloth]

What exactly is the point of even having defender of the faith as a game mechanic?

 

[moorsonthecoast]

What exactly is the point of even having defender of the faith as a game mechanic?

I assume it's to replace the Crusades, which get phased out by 1550, and also to replicate the "Wars of Religion" dynamically.

 

[Subbak]

Allowing to claim it for free when you are the only country of your religion is an excellent idea. I had no idea that was a feature. (Sort of new, only 140 hours in.)

It still costs money. It's "free" because you don't get any defensive CtA from it, and noone can steal it from you, so the only way you can lose it is by losing a war.