I don't understand what allying someone who is losing a defensive war would do for me, can you explain?
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Defender of the Faith is still ridiculous
- Thread starter Zaddy
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Drag you into their war, because defensive wars have unlimited CTA, allowing you to evade DotF
It is certainly odd, considering what sufficiently strong states in history might have done. Is it really outside plausibility that a militant Hindu nation would use it as a tool against Islam in a drastically different historical picture in India?
Similarly, for new world faiths any successful nation there would almost necessarily feel pressure of influence from Christianity. It's not hard to imagine a state capable of defending itself + preventing European expansion clamping down on that.
Part of the problem is just that most religions in the game can't convert effectively, even if they take religious. Allowing DotF would make this a little more tenable, but it would probably still be true for religions like Judaism, Mayan or Zoroastrianism...still not enough missionaries. Buddhism could probably manage then though. Maybe a better solution is to buff the conversion power offered by religious, or to re-work tolerance/country policies on religions.
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I think the biggest problem is for countrys like Serbia, who are too close to catholic nations, when Spain defends Hungarians before fifteenhundreds, it breaks the game or will force the conversion, which is ahistorical for most nations. Had a game, where Spain took it in 1475. For Musvovians, this can mean war against the Spanish well before Spain should even have heard of their existence. (wich is another point were they rival themselves well before the sixteenhundreds, wich is also too soon). I also feel like the ai takes it over debt repayment, and the ai defends someone with over 500 debt, because of the defensive war modifier, make it an offensive war, that would help a lot, no alliance means offensive xd.
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I fully agree that defender of the faith needs a nerf. I'm playing an alodia game where I had to sit around and do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING for 80 YEARS because the mamluks took DotF and never lost to the ottomans.
They Had twice my force limit constantly until my colonies finally got going, and I was able to use dirty, completely unintended tricks to rip it off of them. I then expanded explosively, and got blocked again by them when they took the title back 5 years later. I was only able to continue expanding due to a glitch where they didn't get called in when I attacked Yemen. Perhaps the game still thought they were shia? They converted to sunni though.
Anyways, what I did to trick them was quickly siege down the entire target country in order to float my warscore to the point that they would peace out for 1 ducat, and since that technically counts as "win", they were forced to give up DotF for 5 entire years. Whoop dee doo. But maybe it'll work for you, if you time it carefully. I guess.
Defender of the faith badly needs a nerf. You should only be able to call the dotf in if you're within a certain distance of them and known of by them, and you shouldn't be able to come in against nations that are too small.
They Had twice my force limit constantly until my colonies finally got going, and I was able to use dirty, completely unintended tricks to rip it off of them. I then expanded explosively, and got blocked again by them when they took the title back 5 years later. I was only able to continue expanding due to a glitch where they didn't get called in when I attacked Yemen. Perhaps the game still thought they were shia? They converted to sunni though.
Anyways, what I did to trick them was quickly siege down the entire target country in order to float my warscore to the point that they would peace out for 1 ducat, and since that technically counts as "win", they were forced to give up DotF for 5 entire years. Whoop dee doo. But maybe it'll work for you, if you time it carefully. I guess.
Defender of the faith badly needs a nerf. You should only be able to call the dotf in if you're within a certain distance of them and known of by them, and you shouldn't be able to come in against nations that are too small.
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Arabia is on the Asia continent, mamluks is on the African continent, defender only works on same continent
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For the defenders of the current DotF setup—and in general defenders of the status quo in the face of criticisms of game mechanics—I think a lot of that position boils down to this makes the game challenging; you just want everything to be easier. In less generous terms, it's a git gud argument.
But this isn't about making the game easier; it's about making it make sense. The game should be challenging (or, more accurately, it should be able to present a broad range of difficulties depending on settings), but it should not use sloppy or arbitrary mechanics as a crutch to provide that challenge. AI army behavior should be less exploitable, naval invasions should be a legitimate possibility instead of a joke, etc., but even in the absence of those changes, leaning on an ahistorical and unrealistic DotF system isn't the solution.
In this sense, it doesn't matter whether there is a way around the roadblock, because the problem isn't the delay it causes you; it's the fact you have to take a nonsensical detour at all.
But this isn't about making the game easier; it's about making it make sense. The game should be challenging (or, more accurately, it should be able to present a broad range of difficulties depending on settings), but it should not use sloppy or arbitrary mechanics as a crutch to provide that challenge. AI army behavior should be less exploitable, naval invasions should be a legitimate possibility instead of a joke, etc., but even in the absence of those changes, leaning on an ahistorical and unrealistic DotF system isn't the solution.
In this sense, it doesn't matter whether there is a way around the roadblock, because the problem isn't the delay it causes you; it's the fact you have to take a nonsensical detour at all.
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This is not true- Mamluks will get called in for all the local Asian and European minors, karaman, candar, hisn kayfa, even Otto themself.
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DoTF works for brothers in faith that are on the same continent OR borders the DoTF directly. Meaning that while Hisn Kayfa, Yemen, Candar and Karaman aren't affected by the Mamluks' DoTF on game start, if they somehow manage to get a border with them (by the Mamluks annexing Hijaz for example), they now would be.
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You know, the occasional threads like this, or about the revolution or the new HRE system makes me more glad of still having not bought Emperor.
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Please elaborate.
I am yet to see one decent argument coming from the people which like the current situation which is more than a half-witted remark.
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I like the current system because of its limits of expansion, but do wish that the AI wouldn't take it so readily
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The old system was better the ai took it starting from the sixtenhundreds so you had time to build up, atm it prioritises it too much.
As one of you already suggested, lock the option becoming DotF behind a minimum of prestige let's say 50.
That would be simple and effective. It prevents awful starts, but doesn't prevent AI from picking it later in the game.
If you still struggle with DotF later, it's just your fault either swapping religion too soon or not waiting for a good moment to attack.
That would be simple and effective. It prevents awful starts, but doesn't prevent AI from picking it later in the game.
If you still struggle with DotF later, it's just your fault either swapping religion too soon or not waiting for a good moment to attack.
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