Was just wodering, im not looking at the world record etc or anything, but playing vs the AI, if war begins in June 37, what kind of date should Japan be lookijng at for China to fall?
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Vayasen said:
If I undestood correctly, you're playing Japan and launched your invasion of China in '37.
As far as I know, your chances of actually defeating every China that you're facing are quite low if a)you have no new allies and b)if the Chinas are united (and especially c)if you're at war with the Comintern and/or the Allies and/or USA). Usually the war starts at around that time, but usually Japan also fails.
You'll need to be patient with your advance so as not to turn it into an epic failure due to overestimation of own military prowess and power. Build a vast army with superior weapons and doctrines; focus on maintaining a steady supply to your invading armies; keep your TC high; don't declare unnecessary wars; don't be too happy for a few (even major) victories.
China concists of a vast amount of mountains; they're a bugger to conguer. While China is not united, it still has a high chance of ganging up on you. They prefer even the Commies to you.
All in all, it'll probably take a few years to take all of China; you should be able to do it during the 30s if you don't make any major mistakes, but it could also turn into an annexet Manchukyo.
I've been looking at the Chinese front no matter which country I play, and I find that it resembles the Eastern front of Europe in many respects; while the invades (Germany) have a huge lead on leader skill, organization, equipment, etc, the Soviet Union gains the upper hand eventually - that is, usually it does. The Germans might be as far as Moscow and still get turned back.
The point I'm making is, China's pretty much like the Soviet Union in that respect - I've seen Japan capture everything but the provinses closest to the border of Xibei San Ma, and still get beaten - hard.
Also, USA likes China - a lot.
you should just build few airplanes because they are great, and start invasion by landing near their capital and moving towards west without attacking the small warlords, when you will control nearly all vp of nat china you will get an event that allows you to annex all. I think this is reachable by between 38-39.
Hmm, what did I do heh.
The war began with the Marco Polo Bridge incident in June 37, I had conquered ALL..ie every single Chinese faction by December 37.
Every little local tactical plan worked to a perfect ending, with Chinese surrounded time after time, each invasion down the coast netted more and more each time, with China never once establishing a solid front against my Imperial Soldiers.
The Nationalists surendered aroudn Dec 20th 1937, they had just a few VPs left in their hands and the only following surivors were very quickly decimated.
I didnt even build up an overwhelming army, just used the available troops and about 29 Infantry divisions + Engineer brigades.
The only downside was ht eloss of 3 tactical bomber sqaudrons, who somehow vanised as some Chines retreated trhough a province (really odd)
The war began with the Marco Polo Bridge incident in June 37, I had conquered ALL..ie every single Chinese faction by December 37.
Every little local tactical plan worked to a perfect ending, with Chinese surrounded time after time, each invasion down the coast netted more and more each time, with China never once establishing a solid front against my Imperial Soldiers.
The Nationalists surendered aroudn Dec 20th 1937, they had just a few VPs left in their hands and the only following surivors were very quickly decimated.
I didnt even build up an overwhelming army, just used the available troops and about 29 Infantry divisions + Engineer brigades.
The only downside was ht eloss of 3 tactical bomber sqaudrons, who somehow vanised as some Chines retreated trhough a province (really odd)
Vayasen said:
Either you're vastly superior to me or we're playing different difficulty levels - or I dunno...
Vayasen said:
I've played Nationalist China more than Japan, but the conquering and annexing of Nat Chi was always difficult for me. It's taken me from Summer of '40 and as late as Summer '41 to do so. AND I have to produce more units than 29 INF w/ENG to do it. So bravo to you!
And to the Captain posting above me, I do not play DD because I cannot find it in a brick and mortar. And I need an answer to one vital question: DD expands the end through sometime in the 50's, but what is the earliest start year, '36? Please tell me '36!
Attacking from multiple directions is key from me. Don't just come down through Manchuko and the province you own next to China, get some marines for amphibious attacks. Attack Shanghai, Hainan and some province in between the two and you should be ready to roll. The key for me is building mountain troops and marines as opposed to regular infantry. The marines will make the amphibious attacks easier and the mountain infantry will allow you to advance at a pace that is not unbelievably slow. I usually conquer China in about a year (each change in the difficulty level seems to increase/decrease that time by about 2-3 months).
The main downside to this strategy (for me anyway), is that I have to divert my IC away from shipbuilding, which means I'll have a somewhat tougher time dealing with those pesky Americas. Of course, I can just invade them and conquer them right after I conquer China.
The main downside to this strategy (for me anyway), is that I have to divert my IC away from shipbuilding, which means I'll have a somewhat tougher time dealing with those pesky Americas. Of course, I can just invade them and conquer them right after I conquer China
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i've been able to get them by the end of 37. some of the techniques i used were 1. build about a dozen cav's level 3.(no oil use), have at least 3 mountainers (but dont go overboard) and add inv divisions (24?). (you can add armor and air, but i've done it with out building more of these) 2. make sure to invade along the coast to open up a couple of attack routes. 3. attack from different angles but only have one province army move to take the new province. Dont rest, as soon as you take a province, attack the next one, again from various provinces. 4. its "gamey", but in 36, you can GI Nat china and when GC delcares war on them, you declare war on GC. You can usually get a strong base in south after the war is over and then in 37 use that as another attack point. hope this helps.
I know that everyone says to wait for the Marco Polo event, but I like taking out Shanxi right off teh bat, then, as soon as things are positioned, take out Communist China.
As soon as I can (perhaps late '36) I start going after Nationalist China. This has the advantage of having them still at war with Gianxi and at least one of the other minors. I do not ever accept alliance with any of the minors.
When the Marco Polo event does fire, China cedes everything to me (if I want) - including all of the minors, even if they were still at war with them. (I actually like it if China has Tibet, etc. at that point).
This gets me all of China usually early-mid 1937, with a lot of time to look towards the next target before Germany starts stirring up the hornet's nest in 1939 and 1940.
I know it is gamey, and was actually wondering if this was how the Marco Polo event was supposed to work.
As soon as I can (perhaps late '36) I start going after Nationalist China. This has the advantage of having them still at war with Gianxi and at least one of the other minors. I do not ever accept alliance with any of the minors.
When the Marco Polo event does fire, China cedes everything to me (if I want) - including all of the minors, even if they were still at war with them. (I actually like it if China has Tibet, etc. at that point).
This gets me all of China usually early-mid 1937, with a lot of time to look towards the next target before Germany starts stirring up the hornet's nest in 1939 and 1940.
I know it is gamey, and was actually wondering if this was how the Marco Polo event was supposed to work.
I usually do it that way:
economic part
1. research priorities: inf, cav, mar, mo, art, ground doc + tac tech /docs
2. upgrade the old divisions
3. build first mountaineers + art brig (12-18) and group them in stacks of 3
4. as soons as marines are available (normally ~mid'37) build 12-18 divs+art in stacks of three
5. build some inf in times of surplus ics + maybe 1-3 hqs
6. research carrier tec in '37
military part
1. group all available land units you start with in manchuko in stacks of 6
2. after marco polo rush down south through shanxi. the line changzi-quindao should be reached easily
3. one beach landing shanghai or nantong with mountaineers and strike for nanjing, 6-9 divs should be sufficient, you can also use the gar divs to garrison your beaches while the regulars move inland
4. nat china will move the bulk of their troops up north to face your manchuko armies -> make a landing in fuzhou or xiamen with mountaineers (a 3 div stack should be sufficient). if this is not working try to expand your nanjing beachhead further south
5. soon the front line will be from the borders of com china in the east to the east china sea in the west and down south to bao'an. at this point most of the units you built as written in the economic part should be ready for duty
6. use the new-built mo/mar to conquer south nat china / guanxi clique. the nat china troops concentrated in the east/north will now fall back to defend their threatened capital so you can easily advance through china
7. attack always from different provinces, use the advantages of mountaineers (speed+attack/defence) in south china to create pockets
8. build + use 2 full stacks of tac bombers to hammer down the org of nat chinas divs
9. don't go for kills - you have the advantage of much higher organization than nat china, so you don't have to rest after taking a new province. push your troops foward as soon as possible, use the bombers to kill retreating troops
with this strategy you should celebrate victory in '38-'39, which spares two more years in gearing up for the US. The nice one: You got already enough special divisions (mo/mar) and a core carrier task force for war in east india / pacifica and later at the us beachheads and can now concentrate on air tech / equipment and building some mech/mot/arm armies... and the one or another nuclear reactor
economic part
1. research priorities: inf, cav, mar, mo, art, ground doc + tac tech /docs
2. upgrade the old divisions
3. build first mountaineers + art brig (12-18) and group them in stacks of 3
4. as soons as marines are available (normally ~mid'37) build 12-18 divs+art in stacks of three
5. build some inf in times of surplus ics + maybe 1-3 hqs
6. research carrier tec in '37
military part
1. group all available land units you start with in manchuko in stacks of 6
2. after marco polo rush down south through shanxi. the line changzi-quindao should be reached easily
3. one beach landing shanghai or nantong with mountaineers and strike for nanjing, 6-9 divs should be sufficient, you can also use the gar divs to garrison your beaches while the regulars move inland
4. nat china will move the bulk of their troops up north to face your manchuko armies -> make a landing in fuzhou or xiamen with mountaineers (a 3 div stack should be sufficient). if this is not working try to expand your nanjing beachhead further south
5. soon the front line will be from the borders of com china in the east to the east china sea in the west and down south to bao'an. at this point most of the units you built as written in the economic part should be ready for duty
6. use the new-built mo/mar to conquer south nat china / guanxi clique. the nat china troops concentrated in the east/north will now fall back to defend their threatened capital so you can easily advance through china
7. attack always from different provinces, use the advantages of mountaineers (speed+attack/defence) in south china to create pockets
8. build + use 2 full stacks of tac bombers to hammer down the org of nat chinas divs
9. don't go for kills - you have the advantage of much higher organization than nat china, so you don't have to rest after taking a new province. push your troops foward as soon as possible, use the bombers to kill retreating troops
with this strategy you should celebrate victory in '38-'39, which spares two more years in gearing up for the US. The nice one: You got already enough special divisions (mo/mar) and a core carrier task force for war in east india / pacifica and later at the us beachheads and can now concentrate on air tech / equipment and building some mech/mot/arm armies... and the one or another nuclear reactor
in my current game as usa (with ccip mod), i'm watching the war between china and japan. japan easily broke through the defenses of shanxi, and they were quickly defeated. japan managed to reach the northernmost river which were the border between china and shanxi, and they also put up a landing in shanghai and for a while they held the coast from shanghai to tianjin. China forged the unified front, and were eventually getting the advantage, and managed to push the japanese out of china and into manchuria, where both sides have settled down and neither one can advance. it is 1943 or so, and china have more than double the amount of troops compared to japan, and more ic as well (144 base ic i think, they've got LOADS from lend-lease events) so eventually china will win.i have only traded with china, as i suspect the ai is programmed to do as well. no "cheap" trades, just accepting everything they offer unless it's too bad deal for me
well... usually, japan seems to be winning in my games, but this game is fun since they are actually resisting really well.
well... usually, japan seems to be winning in my games, but this game is fun since they are actually resisting really well.