Defeat after Deceit 2

[Aladar]

Game name: Universalis I

Game Day: Thursday, 1st session 21st of august (optional 28th)
Timeslot: 19.00 to 23.00 CET
Requirements: WatK3v1 mod
Scenario: Based on the 1419 for WatK.
GMs: Aladar
Tracker of points: We need someone
Editor in Chief: Aladar and anyone willing to help
Host: Aladar

This should be the finished and edited scenario. Please inform me/Aladar if there still are things that don't seem right/fair.

Download the modded religion.csv here. For easier readability, it looks like this:

Rooster:

Aladar - Holland
HAL - France
PJL - Lithuania
Martmol - Japan
ShoGul - England
Bluelotus - Spain
R3lic - Portugal
Miozozny - OE
King John - Venice
Tonioz - Austria
Absolut - Brandenburg
Devil - Denmark
Admiral Drake - Hyderabad
SorelusImperion - Russia

Subs: Bunka, DSYoungEsp

Awaiting answer from:
Mulliman, EarendilHE

Europe: POR, SPA, FRA, ENG, RUS, DEN, BRA, AUS, VEN, HOL, LIT
Arabia: OE
India: Hyderabad
Asia: Japan

European nations will be populated first, then moving east

Mods so far made to the standard 1419-campaign:
- Increased size of Indian tribes in North America core provinses
- Increases size of Chimu and Inca to core provinses
- All african minors below northcoast of Africa/Mameluks converted to pagans
- Sri Lanka and all oceanic minors converted to pagans
- All playernations have been added the colonial culture
- All player nations will start with 1/1/1/1 stats
- Made fewer AI's in Europe, especially in the HRE.
- Added culture to some of the nations, like gaelic to England, berber to Portugal, Ugric to Denmark etc.
- Slightly raised manpower in HRE, specially aroind Austria
- Minor increase of population in Europe, especially in Portugal and Scandinavia
- Increase manpower in some player capitals to min. 2,5
- Deleting all historical leaders
- Inital starting cash based on income/size
- Cores on capitals

Major edits to the campaign:
- no historical leaders
- all playernations have orthodox tech
- colonial culture

Claiming of new cultures:
If you hold 30% of a cultures provinses for 30 years, you may adopt the culture. A maximum of 2 cultures can be added, and once added can not be lost. Other nations cultures can be claimed, like english, french and so on.

Random leaders:

Before 1. session all nations will get 4 great generals and admirals generated, 1 each century living for 25 years.

Generals: Max stats 6/6/6/3 generated with 16-18 points
Admirals: Max stats 6/6/6 generated with 15-16 points

Each session every nation will get 2 general and 2 admirals, mimimum 2/2/2/0 max 4/4/4/2 average 3/3/3/0,5, lifetime: 15 -25 (20 average).

From 1550 1 explorer and 1 conquistador, same stats as the random leaders, lifetime: 5-10 (7,5 average)

Instead of ontime bonusses and AAR-rewards a new pointsystem will be introduced, awarding points for ontime, playing, warfare, COTs and human vassels.

[B]Instructions:[/B]
All province specific actions must be sent with ID number. 
All provinces must be owned and controlled.
When a session starts, a nation may only keep 80p in its pool. Any point over that limit will be lost.
The deadline for sending in orders for point usage is 24h before session start.
Any action must be paid by the same country from that country's available pool of points.

[B]Points are gained according to following:[/B]
10 points for being on-time.
1 point for every year played/session.
3 points for every war won (player vs player).
1 point for every war lost (player vs player).
2 points for every CoT (at end of session).
10 points for every human vassal (at end of session).

[B]Points can be spent in different ways:[/B]
Lower badboy. 6p/1bb.
Raise manpower. 10p/.5mp. Only for provinces with <12mp.
Raise tax. 10p/1bt. Only for provinces with <15bt.
Gain gold. 1p/25d. (40p for 1000).
Deflation. 20p/0.5%.
Buy core. 8p. Must border an existing core. If you have no existing core on the continent then you can pick a beachhead province
from which to expand.
Convert province religion. 20p if state culture, 40p if other.
Convert province culture. 40p if non-state culture. 20p if state-culture. 10p if colonial culture. (All go to primary culture)
Hire general/admiral. 10p + 5p/stat on top of template 3/3/3. Max 17 total stats. Max 6 in any one stat. Lives for 25 years.
Hire explorer/conquistador. 10p. 4/1/1. Lives for 5 years. Max 4/session. Only available after 1550.
Build manufactory. 30p + 8p/manufactory already owned. Double cost if required Infra level is not researched.
Build shipyard/CC. 35p + 10p/every CC/shipyard already owned. Double cost if required land/naval level(s) is not researched.
Raise population. 5p/1000 if city >1000pop. 20p/1000 if 0<1000.

[B]Penalties:[/B]
Late for session without warning 12 hours in advance, or reasonable explanation: -10p.
Rule breach. GM decides the deduction according to the severity of the error.

Rules
1. Obey the GM.
2. The GM reserves the right to edit out the effect of a bug, when he thinks this is necessary. See rule 1.
3. There's a stab hit rule to prevent eternal wars:
* If you have been at war for 5 years or more with another nation
* and that nations sends you a stabhitting peaceoffer
* and you are at stab -3
* and the peace offer is based upon a warscore of -99 for you, then you must accept the stab hit peace offer.
Note: it is recommended that you pause the game and inform your opponent that you are about to force him to a peace this way, then he can check the current WS.
4. Naval/Land sliders will be limited between 3 and 7. Any further moves will be reset after session.
5. In 1575 and 1650 I will edit in 1% inflation for each 3 gold mine you own outside Europe. TP's count too. (Spanish bankruptcy events will be slept)
6. Prussia will be created no matter what.
7. If you get vassalised by a human player you must stay that way for 20 years, unless the overlord chooses to break it. After 20 years the vassal can break vassalage, the overlord can then choose to attack them after that again or let them go.
As a vassal :
* You cannot enter any other alliance than that of your overlord.
* You must accept a proposal of TA/MA from your overlord.
* You are not allowed to start any wars without permission of your overlord
* You cannot give or aquire MA to any power withour your Overlord's consent.
* You are *not* required to dow someone at the command of your overlord, send him cash at his command or generally help your overlord if *he* is the agressor in a war.
8. Using certain exploits is forbidden. See below for more details:
9. If Holland is still alive in 1580, the Dutch will be formed.

General rule: if you think something is an exploit, then it is likely that it is one. When in doubt ask the GM.

The following is forbidden. The list is probably not complete.

* Attacking an enemy fleet with pirates, as well as comparatively very
small fleets, only made to inhibit loading/landing.
* Releasing one or more vassals during wartime, to hinder an enemy.
* Force-burning of manufactories, i.e. repeated move and halt orders to an
army in a province with a manufactory.
* Using lag to your advantage. This includes (but is not limited to):
Sending lag colonists, building lag fortresses, sending lag missionaries,
using lag diplomats. (The exception is using lag diplomats to send cash).
* Declaring a 'fake' war on a country, with the aim to:
o Increase the stability of the nation you declare war on.
o Change the religion of a protestant or Counter-Reformed-Catholic
nation back to Catholicism before the Edict of Tolerance.
* Exploiting Simultanity: Using the game engine to break a deal, that would
occur simultaneously in the real word. This includes (but is not limited
to) the 'sale' of something in game.
* Converting from Catholiscism to either Counter-reformed-Catholicism or
Protestantism and then switching back to Catholiscism before the Edict
of Tolerance.
* Trading maps with the AI.
* Sending loans to the AI.
* Signing a peace deal with the AI, that bankrupts it in the same day.
* Breaking a truce, except when the truce is a result of a province swap
deal in game. You are not allowed to dow AI alliance members of
someone you have a truce with.
* exploring with 100 ships (and thus avoiding attrition).
* Ceding TPs to reduce Bad Boy.

The following is allowed:

* Not leaving a human alliance, despite the alliance leader asking you to do
so.
* Landing armies in the port of a country you are in war with, because you
still have Military Access.
* Sacking capitals for maps
* Stealing sieges

The follwing is prohibited:
- Pirates
- DOFT

 

[Tonioz]

i want other gamename

 

[Aladar]

Post 1

Since DaD will soon be over, probably ending tonight, i've started to make plans for DaD2, which will use the good parts of DaD to enhance the game even more.

I have many ideas and i've already talked to some people who also have some good ideas.

With my 20/20 mbit conn i should also be able to support a lot of players, so i'm aiming for 15 players to be placed all over the world, not just in Europe.

I'm not yet sure if i'm going for a 1419 campaign, but it would open up some interesting nations like Burgundy instead of France perhaps.

If we can gather 15 players, nations like Japan, something in India, Persia and China could be played.

Game won't start till end of August or early september i recon, so ideas are welcome.

A few set rules are in place thou:

- commen colonial culture
- random leaders only
- random explorers and conquistadors for all

*******************************************************

Not really getting much work done today, due to hangovers from the barbecue last night, so i might as well put up some ideas.

I just had a brief look at the 1419-campaign map. This certainly opens up some interesting possibilities for nations.

Europe: SPA, FRA, ENG, RUS, SWE/DEN, BRA/POL, AUS, VEN, HOL
Arabia: OE and Timirud Empire
India: Vijayanager
Asia: Mongol and Japan (i fear China would be too large from start)

Europe would need a bit of editing, so that certain nations can't simply wipe out neighbors from the start.

Probably increase the size of the natives in Americas a bit, so they might be a bit more of a challenge to conquer, perhaps added with LT5.

African minors should be pagan so it's open to all not just OE, same LT as Americas. Oceanic minors the same.

Perhaps a bit fewer cultures around Vietnam/Cambodia to make it interesting to conquer.

I'm sure we can figure out a new name for the game.

Would nations with exotic religions like Japan, Vijayanagar and Mongols be left in the dark ages while the usual european religions race ahead?

Also they would receive fewer colonists than the Europeans.

 

[Mats_SX]

I like many ideas.

Would nations with exotic religions like Japan, Vijayanagar and Mongols be left in the dark ages while the usual european religions race ahead?

Also they would receive fewer colonists than the Europeans.

One could edit them to more pleasant techgroups, of course, but also one could edit the different religion modifiers, to balance things up. Europe could be latin, as usual, with Russia, OE and Timurids in Orthodox, Vijayanagar, Japan and Mongol/Manchu in Muslim. Also, religion tech modifiers could be set to one value for all religions.

It takes to think about.

 

[unmerged(95243)]

well, this sounds interesting, dad is on the WATK map, right?
if you don't mind having a relatively newbie player i'd love to join

 

[admiral drake]

I like many ideas.


One could edit them to more pleasant techgroups, of course, but also one could edit the different religion modifiers, to balance things up. Europe could be latin, as usual, with Russia, OE and Timurids in Orthodox, Vijayanagar, Japan and Mongol/Manchu in Muslim. Also, religion tech modifiers could be set to one value for all religions.

It takes to think about.

might be worth to think about tbh
even if you move orthodox/muslim techgroup to the same speed as latin they will stil suffer due less players for neigborsbonus in there techgroup

 

[Mats_SX]

might be worth to think about tbh
even if you move orthodox/muslim techgroup to the same speed as latin they will stil suffer due less players for neigborsbonus in there techgroup

Ah, there's those modifiers as well. Hehe, I was thinking about the state religion modifier on tech, as shown in this graph.

But there are many things to modify, it is clear

 

[unmerged(49459)]

i would be interested in this campaign but i have one idea that we should go different way than first part, TA should be allowed.

 

[Aladar]

TA can be allowed, but i think it should be limited to perhaps 2 per nation.

I've decided that to have all these nations, a 1419 WATK campaign is needed.

The following edits have been done so far:
- Increased size of Indian tribes in North America
- Increases size of Chimu and Inca

I still need to figure our what LT they should have.

- All african minors below northcoast of Africa/Mameluks converted to pagans
- Sri Lanka and all oceanic minors converted to pagans

I think that instead of Vijayanager perhaps Hyderabad is better as nation in India.

Needs to be done:

Make fewer AI's in Europe, especially in the HRE.
Add culture to some of the nations, like gaelic to England, berber to Portugal, Ugric to Denmark etc. All nations will be added the colonial culture.
Increase number of provinses and shields for minors nations
All player nations will start with 1/1/1/1 stats and 500d.

 

[Mats_SX]

All player nations will start with 1/1/1/1 stats and 500d.

Why not 0/0/0/0?

 

[Aladar]

You need lvl 1 trade as far is i remenber to send merchants and setlers. Besides lvl 1 will cost only a few hundred ducats, so nieghbor bonuses and such will quickly get it there anyway.

I was however thinking of making starting cash scaled, so that nations with less provinses receive a higher amount of starting cash as compensation.

E.i. a nation like Spain who starts out with 12 or so provinses, should get far less initial cash than say a 4 provinses Brandenburg. This should also take income from the provinses in question into account thou.

E.i. initial starting cash is 1000d. For every provinses withdraw 50D or simply deduct 1 years income from the starting provinses. Thus making is more even.

AAR and ontime bonuses are ofcourse nice, but should be more limited in my view. Perhaps 0,25% deflation for being ontime and 0,50% inflation for being late.

 

[Mats_SX]

You need lvl 1 trade as far is i remenber to send merchants and setlers. Besides lvl 1 will cost only a few hundred ducats, so nieghbor bonuses and such will quickly get it there anyway.

Yes you do, but I still think we should start at 0/0/0/0. It means you have to choose if to make infra 1 first, for TCs, or trade 1, for merchants. 'Course, won't take long until all has both, but still.

AAR and ontime bonuses are ofcourse nice, but should be more limited in my view. Perhaps 0,25% deflation for being ontime and 0,50% inflation for being late.

I think they should also be rising in magnitude as the game progresses. In the 18th Century, 500 ducats isn't any money, and 1 deflation isn't that cool either.

I say an increase every 50 years should be nice. So starting with 0.25 in 1419, we get 0.4 in/after 1450, 0.6 in/after 1500, 1.0 in/after 1550, 1.5 in/after 1600, 2 in/after 1650, 3 in/after 1700, 4.5 after 1750, 6 after 1800 (if there is any).

Also, after 1550, we could add 1 DP click as alternative option.

 

[Aladar]

The game was never meant to end at near 0% inflation, so i don't want to give people that much advantage.

Every time we set up more "rewards" we make the game easier, which really wasn't intended imo.

Post 1 updated btw.

 

[Mats_SX]

The game was never meant to end at near 0% inflation, so i don't want to give people that much advantage.

Every time we set up more "rewards" we make the game easier, which really wasn't intended imo.

Post 1 updated btw.

Well, I don't think anyone would really spend any effort for the sake of 0.25 deflation after 1500. Of course, there are other reasons to be ontime or write an AAR.

Oh, and I would prefer to not use Tuesdays for this game.

 

[Aladar]

The 0.25 deflation was for showing up on time, not an AAR. 0,50% inflation for being late however.

All but mondays, fridays and saturdays are actually fine for me, all we need is to find a day where 14 players can attend.

 

[Mats_SX]

All but mondays, fridays and saturdays are actually fine for me, all we need is to find a day where 14 players can attend.

Which is an accomplishment in itself :rofl:

 

[Aladar]

well, this sounds interesting, dad is on the WATK map, right?
if you don't mind having a relatively newbie player i'd love to join

New players are always welcome

 

[admiral drake]

since aladar asked my opinion about religions
i have the following suggestion since you guys will be playng with people in asia & europe

watk religion file

;Techspeed;Stab bonus;Prod. Eff.;Trade. Eff.;Tax Income;Morale;Ann.Col;Ann.Dip;Ann.Miss;x
Protestantism;3;-300;10;0;30;0;200;200;50;x
Reformed;5;-300;0;10;-10;10;300;200;50;x
Counterreformed;-3;600;0;-10;0;50;300;300;200;x
Catholicism;-1;600;0;0;5;10;300;300;100;x
Orthodox;-3;800;0;0;0;0;200;100;100;x
Sunni islam;-3;600;0;0;0;0;0;100;100;x
Shiite islam;-5;600;0;0;-20;50;0;0;100;x
Paganism;-25;-500;0;0;0;0;100;0;0;x
Confucianism;-15;1000;0;0;-20;0;-100;100;0;x
Buddhism;-10;500;0;0;-20;0;0;0;100;x
Hinduism;-15;-300;0;0;5;50;0;0;0;x
END;;;;;;;;;;


my suggestion is
nerf protestantism back to vanilla
wich basicle means the religion is good but not overpowert
back to +10% production +10% taxes

delete the taxpenalty for buddism/shitty
and nerf the +morale for hinduism & shiite
+0.25 will stil be a very good bonus while +50 is redicilous
the -20taxes for smaller countrys(countrys like mongols aren't really playable with this) is cripling if you wan't a descent competitive game

give all religions
2 diplomat
2 colonist
2 missionaris
a year instead of 0 for some and +3for others

 

[HALNY (HAL)]

Right now I'm thinking about some EU3 game, but first I need to buy In nomine. So if I will not buy it till august I'm in here. But the only countries I'm interested in are ENG and FRA .

 

[Aladar]

I would actually like to start a bit earlier on this campaign, summer as usual, is not comming in Denmark.

So who is interested?