Default Mech Loadouts?

[Anthropoid]

The game should list this for each model in game, but apparently it does not.
Anyone know of an online resource that simply lists the "default" loadout for each mech model?
Or did I miss something in-game?

 

[_Firefly]

Sarna.net is your friend. Every model of every 'mech we have in game is listed there.

 

[Jade_Rook]

There is a button in the mech bay to check the default loadout. I think it is in the center, between the legs? Try the "i" next to "stock combat role." Don't have access to the game right now to check.

You can also check sarna.net for all of the canon variants. It doesn't list locations and there are some parts of this game which don't match canon.

MasterBLB has created an editor for mech designs which works pretty well. https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?forums/battletech-mech-designer.1051/

I generally use Solaris Skunk Werks when I want to check full mech loadouts. It was made for TT, so it doesn't exactly match this game, but I find it close enough.

 

[Hobbes__]

Sarna.net is your friend. Every model of every 'mech we have in game is listed there.

Sarna.net is a great resource but it merely describes the 'Mechs loadout of weapons without technical indications.

For a precise description of what goes exactly inside a 'Mech: http://mordel.net/ - it contains all the record sheets

 

[Anthropoid]

Cool, thanks folks
Say, what is a "good" lance to have by about the time you get access to the Argo?
I had one campaign where I made it that far and a bit farther but the impediment I was facing: I only had access to the Restoration worlds (as well as the periphery where you start). All the missions in the couple Restoration worlds were like 2+ skulls, and even in the periphery a lot were 2+. In order to get 1-ish I had to go all the way back to the starting worlds. Lets just say, I felt like I was seriously outmatched with the crew and lance I had going at most of the 2+ skull missions.
It almost seems like it is NOT a good idea to advance too quickly with the campaign.
I have restarted and doing better with the knowledge of game mechanics, etc. but I'm curious what the going meta is on the campaign?
It seems like the developers like to draw a fairly narrow path for the player to traverse down, but at the same time there are all these cues that I should be wandering free and gallivanting as a freelance (e.g., a popup about getting access to a black market IF I had reasonable relations with pirates).

 

[Jade_Rook]

You start with three mediums and are given a fourth with the Argo. That should be enough to handle most 2 skull missions. You'll take a beating on some 2 skull missions, so be cautious about how you engage and don't be afraid to use the Retreat button (top right) if things are going poorly. If you are about to lose a mech, but think you can still finish the mission, the Eject command (lower left, by mech status) is probably better.

The big upgrades you should be looking for to improve the starting lance are 50 and 55 ton mechs. Shadow Hawks, Hunchbacks, Centurions, Wolverines, etc. Get one or two more of those and you should start looking for a heavy, probably through assassination missions.

Advancing the story will increase the difficulty of all the planets, so save those missions for when you feel confident you can take on a new challenge. There is no time limit, so wander taking procedural missions until you feel like you have a good lance ready.

Another point, when you start doing 2 skull missions all of your mechwarriors should have at least one, possibly two of the level 5 abilities. A good base line of pilot skills will help a lot once you get to those missions.

 

[_Firefly]

In my last playthrough I took my sweet time to build a stronger lance. I bought two CN-9A Centurion components from a store (silly, I know, but I love Centurions and wanted to get my hands on one as quickly as I could) and salvaged a second Shadow Hawk 2H. I then got another Centurion component and was thus able to do the Argo mission with two Shadow Hawks (including the one you start with), a Centurion and the starter Vindicator (I tend to like trooper 'mechs). You get another Centurion when you finish that mission and by then you have a pretty nice little lance available, with the Vindicator and Blackjack in reserve. By that point I'd sold both the Spider and the Locust to keep my company going through hard times, but with a solid medium lance and ever-improving pilots you should be able to take 2-skull missions without too many issues. If you need a recon 'mech, I suggest using the Firestarter and dropping the flamers and MGs for 2 more MLs and armour.

At this point you can start thinking about doing Assassination missions @Jade_Rook mentioned - one of these netted me my first heavy, a Catapult. After that salvaging becomes easier - prioritise salvage over C-bills and you'll make your living off of repaired 'mechs, keeping the best ones for yourself.

Once you get the Argo your 'mech refits will progress far quicker, so you have more opportunities to change your loadouts. Based on personal experience I'd recommend outfitting a Centurion with an AC/5 (w/ two tonnes of ammo), 2 MLs, 1 SRM-6 (w/ one tonne of ammo) 4 JJs and 3 HS. That leaves you with 10,5 tonnes for armour, which is very solid for a starter tank build. You can capitalise on that by giving its pilot Bulwark once you reach Guts 5.

By the time I got to the second storyline mission I had a TDR-5SE Thunderbolt as well as the Catapult and mediums mentioned above. I sailed through with no issues. Do note that every single one of my 'mechs has JJs on - this allows you to make full use of the varied terrain in BT.

Further down the line I'd consider hiring and diversifying your MechWarriors to the extent that you can field two fully self-sufficient lances with mutually-supporting skillsets. Assuming 10 MechWarriors (including your character) I'd go for 4 Vanguards (Master Tactician really comes into its own in the latter half of the campaign), 2 Outriders (my favourite build for recon pilots who don't need Sensor Lock), 2 Lancers (your go-to assault 'mech pilots) as well as a Gladiator (best used with heat-intensive 'mechs or when you absolutely, positively have to fire off one more Alpha strike) and a Scout. You could also consider getting a Skirmisher or a Flanker, though I prefer the former because of the way Multi-Target and Breaching shot synergise. Have a look here to go through all the pilot builds.

 

[Anthropoid]

Thanks again for the advice!
Really great game; a true masterpiece! Easy (relatively) to learn, hard to master. Right at about 58 right now and I think I'm making the transition from Apprentice to Journeyman. Missions that I would have lost pilots or mechs to I now come out with just one beatup mech. I have seen more than one commentator say that "just best to leave the designs with their default setups, and while that is a safe bet, I'm increasingly suspecting that subtle changes to mech loadout-in combination with the right pilots and tactics-can generate quite satisfying multiplicative effects. Nothing seems inherently "OP" nor does the design seem to rely on the 'ol DPS FTW scheme that is far too common in so many Sci-Fi type of military games. Planning, training, design, "recon" (in the sense of paying attention to info the game feeds you), and most importantly tactics all are key to creating unexpected wins . . . or so it seems.
A couple of thoughs along these lines: many of the mechs seem to be designed with an inherent flaw of one sort or another. Two of the few exceptions I've encountered so far are the Shadow Hawk SHD-2H and the Spider SDR-5V.
Given each machine has to fit into a certain discrete category, i.e., there is no "perfect do-it-all mech," the Shadow Hawks only real deficiency it seems is, it can only leap 120m instead of 150. LRMs are pretty weak but I suppose with high Tactics they are much more effective. Also, I expect there are better ammo or models of the weapons systems to be found in later game . . . I certainly have used a Sensor Lock soldier with a couple of LRM accoutred mechs to kill plenty of pesky enemies at a distance . . . tedious but it works.
That Spider is pretty close to "perfect" for a scout, but I have been tinkering with some of the others to try to achieve results that are comparable though with alternate strengths/weaknesses . . . but right now they are under repair and it is a pain to open the game window and recount the changes I made so I'll hold off on that.
The one big flaw that many of them seem to suffer (the Commando IIRC and the Blackjack for certain) is not nearly enough heat dissipation.

 

[Jade_Rook]

A lot of the stock mechs have flaws. Either not enough armor, poor heat management, or not enough guns.

For my playstyle, the Shadow Hawk is over-sinked (too many heat sinks for its weapon load) and under-gunned. It is also unfocused with 4 different weapons, three of which use different types of ammo. It can be improved by dropping the SRMs and switching in another LRM or vice versa. Also dropping a heat sink for extra jump jets will likely be an improvement.

As you play more you will figure out your preferred playstyle and can better tweak mechs to fit how you like to play.

 

[Prussian Havoc]

Part of the Journeyman to Master transition will include your improving appreciation for the benefits to you of Terrain as realized by certain tactics as well as how you can disadvantage your opponent by using Terrain and certain Tactics against him.

It is during this transition that you will come to we’ll understand the strengths and weakness of the AI.


Good luck and Good Hunting! : )

 

[Anthropoid]

I have made modifications to most all of them, though in some cases very minor like moving the ammo into the chest from an arm or side. But as an example of my logic here is how I refit the Centurion CN9-A
Head: 45/45 no modules
R arm: 60/80 AC/5, L arm same armor no modules
R & L torso: 95/120f 35/60b 1 jump 1 heat
Chest: 100/160f 40/80b PPC & AC/5 ammo
R & L legs: 70/120 1 jump 1 heat
This yields
Firepower: 2
Movement 5 (with a 90m jump)
Durability: 5
Heat: 8
Avg Range: 9
Melee: 5
I put my player character toon into that one with specializations in pilot and gunnery, though I have yet to get the level 2 pilot specialization.

 

[Prussian Havoc]

One thing suggestion I have is to consider and maybe test out the use of asymmetric builds. If you have your main weapon in an partially Armored Arm (but no weapons in he other arm) go ahead and redistribute some Armor from Arm to Arm to better protect a very good expensive and hard hitting weapon.

I often look to use such asymmetric builds to establish a “Shield” Arms or even “Shield Arm and Side Torso.” Then when maneuvering across the Battlefield from Covered Position to Covered Position, I focus on twisting that Shield toward the direction of the my most dangerous opponent.

The Centurion even has the visuals of an Arm Mounted Shield. But I have found great success with more traditionally symmetric builds such as the Catapult, Blackjack and JagerMech too.

 

[Anthropoid]

One thing suggestion I have is to consider and maybe test out the use of asymmetric builds. If you have your main weapon in an partially Armored Arm (but no weapons in he other arm) go ahead and redistribute some Armor from Arm to Arm to better protect a very good expensive and hard hitting weapon.

I often look to use such asymmetric builds to establish a “Shield” Arms or even “Shield Arm and Side Torso.” Then when maneuvering across the Battlefield from Covered Position to Covered Position, I focus on twisting that Shield toward the direction of the my most dangerous opponent.

The Centurion even has the visuals of an Arm Mounted Shield. But I have found great success with more traditionally symmetric builds such as the Catapult, Blackjack and JagerMech too.

I had thought of taking armor off of the arm without a module and distributing it around to other parts. In fact, I think I did do that on my modified Commando 1D. Is that what you mean?

 

[Prussian Havoc]

I had thought of taking armor off of the arm without a module and distributing it around to other parts. In fact, I think I did do that on my modified Commando 1D. Is that what you mean?

Yes. I have found that there is a fine line to walk here. Take too much and you may lose the Arm/Side Torso with a corresponding increase to repair costs. But if you’ve got the time and Cbills to cover the occasional lost section in the near term, in the long term keeping those fully Armored Weapons and CT in the fight longer, it usually prevents a forced withdraw or destoryed CT.

All in all I have found such Mech mastercrafting to be as much fun as the battles themselves. : )

 

[_Firefly]

@Anthropoid, while your Centurion build seems fairly well-rounded for a long-range plinker, that isn't really what this 'mech is made to do. Being slower than the 55-tonne quartet (Griffin / Shadow Hawk / Kintaro / Wolverine) it can devote proportionally more of its weight to arms and armour, and as such it's traditionally been recognised as a competent brawler. I'd advise to use long-range weaponry on more fragile 'mechs, ones which you normally keep behind the main assault (think Jagermech). I tend to prefer balanced 'mech designs, which is why my preferred Centurion build has a little bit of everything except indirect fire capability. Just a word of warning though - DO NOT BY ANY MEANS stick your ammo in the CT. While it's usually the best protected area of the 'mech, there's a chance that a hit to internal structure will cause the ammo to go off, blowing up the engine and gyro and thus instantly destroying your machine. This is why the very first thing you do when you obtain a Thunderbolt is to move the ammo to one of the side torsoes. Otherwise you risk losing your 'mech the second someone penetrates your armour.

I like @Prussian Havoc 's suggestion - my Centurion has 60 LA armour and 80 on the RA. Just remember not to strip the "empty" component too much - PH made a good point about cost and time of repair versus armour scheme effectiveness. Also a quick note about rear armour - I always make it a point to have at least 25 points on the back of my 'mechs. With fire support machines like the Catapult you can easily take some off the back and stick it at the front, while a brawler or even a skirmisher can benefit tremendously from having 50+ (typical PPC damage). It all depends on your tactics and the role of a given 'mech.

I'm really glad you're liking the game so far. The BT universe is vast and incredibly rich in stories and tech alike, so I'm sure you'll eventually find something for yourself - whether it's a favourite 'mech or a noble house you'd like to serve. Have fun!

 

[Jade_Rook]

I would consider moving the ammo from the center torso (CT) to a side torso. I think the devs fixed the CT crit chances, but having ammo explode in the center is still much worse than the side.

If it blows in the center, the mech is down and the pilot is probably dead.

If it blows in the side you lose the torso and arm, but the mech is still functional. The pilot will be injured, but it isn't an immediate survival roll.

The ammo is probably a little more vulnerable in a side torso, but the consequences of a CT ammo explosion are just too devastating. Granted, I use the CT loss permanent destruction difficulty setting. If I have a CT destroyed the mech is gone permanently, no chance to repair it.

 

[ronhatch]

I'll add my voice to the "never put ammo in the CT" crowd.

Though I'll also add that the AI crit chance is heavily nerfed (1/5th of the player's chance), so with the stock game it's not an entirely unreasonable choice. One of the first parameters I modded on my system was setting "AICritChanceBaseMultiplier" in the CombatGameConstants file to 1. The AI has enough disadvantages already without the game cheating in my favor.

Regardless of the exact odds, the consequences are seriously nasty if it gets hit. Even without mech destruction turned on, a crit on the ammo there will instantly remove your mech from the current fight.

 

[Blade_mercurial]

I have made modifications to most all of them, though in some cases very minor like moving the ammo into the chest from an arm or side. But as an example of my logic here is how I refit the Centurion CN9-A
Head: 45/45 no modules
R arm: 60/80 AC/5, L arm same armor no modules
R & L torso: 95/120f 35/60b 1 jump 1 heat
Chest: 100/160f 40/80b PPC & AC/5 ammo
R & L legs: 70/120 1 jump 1 heat
This yields
Firepower: 2
Movement 5 (with a 90m jump)
Durability: 5
Heat: 8
Avg Range: 9
Melee: 5
I put my player character toon into that one with specializations in pilot and gunnery, though I have yet to get the level 2 pilot specialization.

As others have said, get that ammo out of the CT! Way too risky in this game to ever put ammo in the CT. Admittedly, I also play with modified settings, so my AI has much higher chances of scoring crits and my AI is tweaked to be more deadly than the default AI settings, so perhaps you can get away with CT ammo for most of a campaign, but considering how long a campaign can go, really, its only a matter of time (regardless of your settings) that you get an unlucky CT ammo explosion that takes out the entire mech (and maybe kills the pilot unless its your commander). My suggestion is to put the AC/5 ammo either directly in the arm with the gun (since if arm is blown off, you no longer have to worry about losing another part of the mech due to a later unlucky ammo explosion); or else put the ammo in the Right Leg. The game does have a slight tendency to favour torso/arm hits more often than leg hits (although this is very much affected by RNG, so by no means dependable!). If you DO find the enemy has gotten numerous hits on that vulnerable leg, since you have jump jets, you can easily rotate your mech's positioning relative to the enemy to always keep the LEFT side facing the enemy (thus reducing the chances of losing the leg or taking an ammo explosion).

That aside, I think one other change you should consider is trading the PPC for a large laser. The difference in range is not noticeable in the base game, frankly. The Large Laser saves you 2 tons (which I recommend using one to beef up armour and using the other to get a medium laser). At the end of the day, your mech becomes much easier to manage heat and ultimately you have more firepower with no meaningful loss in long range punch.

However, ultimately, probably the 'best' Centurion build is either as an LRM carrier (a role that is quite out of place considering its 'traditional' role) or else a 'brawler' (with medium laser & SRM spam). Unfortunately, the weapon balance in the base game is a little off, especially with rare weapons (those denoted with 1 - 3 '+' symbols), and so both types of missiles, as well as medium lasers, tend to be the most 'efficient' weapons by quite a lot (compared to others). I've modified all the weapons in my game to improve 'balance' (making each weapon more enticing); and put significant nerfs to all rare weapons (those with '+' symbols). The devs REALLY went overboard on those in my opinion (the +4 damage SRM is just crazy OP, for example).

 

[Anthropoid]

Interesting that there is a chorus of "do not put ammo in the CT," but I have to say: having played for 86 hours now, I've only been "got" by this once, so I'm gonna have to disagree.
Chest is where you can put the most armor. It seems pretty obvious from the way the combats play out that chests get hit less than arms which get hit more than sides, which get hit less than legs. So something like: Head/Legs < Chest < Sides < Arms.

The point being: if your chest armor is breached you are near death anyway, and the difference it makes to have ammo stored there is--in my experience to date--negligible.

 

[Prussian Havoc]

I twist Torso and shoot from the corners of my firing arcs quite a bit. I usually fully Armor one Leg and store my Ammo there. While I occasionally fall down (in real life too it would seem : ) ) I never lose an otherwise pristine Mech to CT/Rear CT luck shots. The peace of mind in knowing that is to me, more than worth the price of a fully armored Leg and the occasional fall. :bow: