Decreasing Dissent

[unmerged(21924)]

I've read some good threads about lowering dissent, but here's a question or two that I haven't found answers for:

Is there any kind of "formula" for knowing exactly how fast I can lower dissent? I've tried experimenting with this, but it seems random. Right now, as Germany in vanilla 1.06, my dissent is 3%. I'm about to annex Iraq, and want to DOW Saudi Arabia, Persia and Turkey in preparation for war with Russia. That will shoot my dissent up to 9%. My CG needs right now are about 145. When I put 20 more into CG, sometimes the bar at the top indicates that dissent will decrease -0.01% per day, sometimes -0.02% per day. I've had it as high as -0.04% per day, but can't seem to get back to that. SO, does anyone know at what "extra" amount, or percentage, of CG the amount of decrease will rise?

Also, is there a certain point at which the game calculates the dissent reduction? I know that trades and convoys are done at 0:00 hours each day, is it the same to check for dissent? I've also tried experimenting with this, but found no answers.

Related, has anyone ever had problems running out of supplies (not resources or IC)? I'm always over 95,000, but I always keep my slider between +3 and +8 of what I need. I thought about dumping most of my supply production into CG for a while, but don't know if that will come back to haunt me, as my flaunting of oil reserves has done in the past?

Thanks,

Chris

 

[unmerged(15618)]

its % dependant but the value differs between goverments and your war/peace status

a supply buffert is allways good to have and there is a dissent penalty if your supply is 0 and you dont produce enough

everything is checked at 00:00h

 

[unmerged(3221)]

You need an extra percentage of IC added to your CG requirement to reduce dissent. Download the updated user manual found in the sticky on this forum and you will find a formula which you can use to guestimate how much extra CG you need to another rounded whole number for the dissent reduction shown as 0.xx on the tooltip.

Approximate extra CG needed to get x dissent reduction.
2% 0.01
6% 0.02
10% 0.03
14% 0.04
....
98% 0.20

As long as you have some supplies, you don't have to produce supplies for a while in order to speed up your dissent reduction. It also helps to switch ministers to a minister that reduces CG needs (laissez faire) or decreases dissent (which is another way to say that CG needs are reduced).

 

[unmerged(15618)]

nice table but...

i did a quick test , if you giv a country twice base value of CG you get

as Germany in peace 36' scenario -0.09 and if at war -0.05

as Italy -0.02 and -0.02

as SU you cant double CG at start of the scenario but at +50% CG you get -0.08 both in peace and at war

if you then start changing ministers those numbers may change again so IMO you cant represent this with a single table

 

[unmerged(26083)]

Related, has anyone ever had problems running out of supplies (not resources or IC)? I'm always over 95,000, but I always keep my slider between +3 and +8 of what I need. I thought about dumping most of my supply production into CG for a while, but don't know if that will come back to haunt me, as my flaunting of oil reserves has done in the past?

You don't need to have 95,000 supplies. You can run your supply production at 0% for awhile. Don't let it hit zero that would be bad..

I don't like seeing my supplies below 10,000, if you go to war and need to start resuppling (reinforce to maximum) units then you will chew through those supplies. It also depends on what country you are. Germany probably wants around 20,000 supplies, since they have more units and more armour. I once played a game as russia where I could not afford to resupply my armour. That was very bad

 

[jdrou]

nice table but...

i did a quick test , if you giv a country twice base value of CG you get

as Germany in peace 36' scenario -0.09 and if at war -0.05

as Italy -0.02 and -0.02

as SU you cant double CG at start of the scenario but at +50% CG you get -0.08 both in peace and at war

if you then start changing ministers those numbers may change again so IMO you cant represent this with a single table

Percentage values aren't relative to your CG demand they are relative to your available IC. 2% of your available ICs going into CG in addition to the minimum to meet demand will give the same reduction regardless of what your CG demand is. To get the full details check the Manual Project download john heidle mentioned. He and I have analyzed this pretty thoroughly and it takes more than a brief post to cover it all.

 

[unmerged(3221)]

nice table but...

i did a quick test , if you giv a country twice base value of CG you get

as Germany in peace 36' scenario -0.09 and if at war -0.05

as Italy -0.02 and -0.02

as SU you cant double CG at start of the scenario but at +50% CG you get -0.08 both in peace and at war

if you then start changing ministers those numbers may change again so IMO you cant represent this with a single table

I should have been more precise in my posting. In my first line I said:
You need an extra percentage of IC added to your CG requirement to reduce dissent. In the table I said
Approximate extra CG needed to get x dissent reduction.

I should have made clear that the extra CG was the percentage of IC that has to be added to the normal CG. How fast you reduce dissent is always dependent upon what % of IC you devote to that task beyond the normal CG requirement. Jdrou figured that out. You can't figure out from CG what the dissent reduction rate is going to be as dissent reduction is based upon % of IC. I should have been clearer about that.

As you point out, ministers that reduce CG needs help reduce dissent quicker because they reduce the daily CG needs. Dissent reduction is essentially =
CG + %IC So anything that reduces the daily CG need frees up IC for other uses such as decreasing dissent.

I have a spreadsheet that's pretty precise about this though it does need a country factor to make it work. It's not perfect but for Germany it's very close. I can predict the CG needed to get either a 0.03 or a 0.04 or even a 0.20 dissent reduction rate with this spreadsheet. The formula for that is also given at the very end of the online revised manual. I will update that portion of the manual at some point when TwoCoats tells me that he's ready to work on the manual again.

Email me heidlejf@yahoo.com if you want a copy of the spreadsheet.

 

[unmerged(3221)]

Another example for dissent reduction using the Soviet Union in a 1936 very hard game. SU starts with 15% dissent.

Put all IC into CG to reduce dissent at the maximum rate. Note results. Then do the usual province improvements for the SU on note the results on day 2 after the IC reduction due to the improvements kicks in. The dissent reduction rate is basically the same because it is based upon a percentage of IC.

• .............................................. IC / CG need / Dissent rate reduction on screen

• 
  On day 1 without improvements 261 / 159.21 / 0.10

• 
  On day 2 with improvements 223 / 136.03 / 0.10

If you typically want to get rid of the 15% dissent and still want to upgrade IC in many provinces, the best way to do that would be this rush method. In about 5 months at a .10% dissent reduction rate, dissent would be zero absent other events or actions.

During this period the CG needs for the SU is also rather high, so your net usable IC isn't that great. But if you rush the dissent reduction and still do all the province improvements, in 1937 and following you will have a lot more net usuable IC. Since the percentage of CG/IC goes down as war entry increases for the SU, you should end up with higher net usable IC by combining these two methods.

The downside to this approach is that your primary research gets delayed until June 1 because you do not have enough net usable IC to have even the 24 or 25 IC needed for the major research areas.

 

[unmerged(21924)]

Excellent Post

Another example for dissent reduction using the Soviet Union in a 1936 very hard game. SU starts with 15% dissent.

Put all IC into CG to reduce dissent at the maximum rate. Note results. Then do the usual province improvements for the SU on note the results on day 2 after the IC reduction due to the improvements kicks in. The dissent reduction rate is basically the same because it is based upon a percentage of IC.

• .............................................. IC / CG need / Dissent rate reduction on screen

• 
  On day 1 without improvements 261 / 159.21 / 0.10

• 
  On day 2 with improvements 223 / 136.03 / 0.10

If you typically want to get rid of the 15% dissent and still want to upgrade IC in many provinces, the best way to do that would be this rush method. In about 5 months at a .10% dissent reduction rate, dissent would be zero absent other events or actions.

During this period the CG needs for the SU is also rather high, so your net usable IC isn't that great. But if you rush the dissent reduction and still do all the province improvements, in 1937 and following you will have a lot more net usuable IC. Since the percentage of CG/IC goes down as war entry increases for the SU, you should end up with higher net usable IC by combining these two methods.

The downside to this approach is that your primary research gets delayed until June 1 because you do not have enough net usable IC to have even the 24 or 25 IC needed for the major research areas.

Thanks for the great post. What are "the usual province improvements?" Does that mean upgrading IC for all 1, 2, and 3 IC provinces?

 

[unmerged(14102)]

heck, i've just memorized the numvers from playing.

GER at war ... 100% IC to CG => 0.21% dissent / day
ITA at war ... 100% IC to CG => 0.19% dissent / day
Everyone else max reduction is 0.16%/day.

simple ...