December 8th beta - Feedback thread - Includes updated extra-text!

[Redporscheman]

Desme penalty related to intrigue?

Well I guess I missed that. Maybe I am off the mark here, but does that really make sense. Maybe it was playable issue. Thanks for all the feed back guys. Did not mean to be out of the loop, just was not prepared for such dramatic changes in the beta. This is the first beta I had loaded. Now that I know about the intrigue I can understand the game better.

Thanks,

John

 

[Veldmaarschalk]

Well I guess I missed that. Maybe I am off the mark here, but does that really make sense. Maybe it was playable issue. Thanks for all the feed back guys. Did not mean to be out of the loop, just was not prepared for such dramatic changes in the beta. This is the first beta I had loaded. Now that I know about the intrigue I can understand the game better.

Thanks,

John

It was mostly done for gameplay reasons. In patch 104a stewardship was everything and intrigue didn't mean a thing. With a high stewardshiprating in 104a, you had a large demesne and would make loads of money which resulted in large regiments.

Now all for 4 (martial, diplomacy, intrigue and stewardship) are more or less important.

 

[unmerged(21937)]

Yea sorry i was in a rush at not someplace where i could look up the exact spelling.

Yes, well, it might be that random neighbour can only target overland neighbours, which would point out why they bounce at Faeryar.

 

[unmerged(2456)]

Yes, well, it might be that random neighbour can only target overland neighbours, which would point out why they bounce at Faeryar.

Well if I forcibly exile him (because he's clamoring for a post), it works.

 

[unmerged(21937)]

Well if I forcibly exile him (because he's clamoring for a post), it works.

So could you pinpoint the circumstances where exactly it does bounce back? It sounds really weird that they bounce back at some events, but not on others if both use same command.

 

[unmerged(2456)]

So could you pinpoint the circumstances where exactly it does bounce back? It sounds really weird that they bounce back at some events, but not on others if both use same command.

Event 7302 (triggered by a lot of events):

immidiate = {#A prestigious Courtier leave our court !
		effect = { type = trigger for = ruler value = 7303 }
		[COLOR=Yellow]effect = { type = courtier_defect value = best_neighbor }[/COLOR]
		effect = { type = loyalty value = 1.0 }
		}

This event bounces the character back 100% of the time.

"I could be a better..." events. Starting with event #7339

	action_c = {
		effect = { type = loyalty value = 1.0 }
		[COLOR=Yellow]effect = { type = courtier_defect value = random_neighbor }[/COLOR]
		effect = { type = loyalty for = marshal value = 0.3 }
	}

This actually works.

I do not know about the others though.

 

[unmerged(2456)]

Another thing...this requires a very minor tweek in 1 file...

poor and stuggling provinces should lower the amount of money given upon pillaging them. It makes no sense for them to have more than normal and for normal provinces to have the least. And its been shown there is no problem with giving negative values for looting.

 

[unmerged(21937)]

So by logic, apparently best and (presumably) worst neighbour rely on having land neighbours, while random swishes them away correctly. That's rather interesting find, though I don't know is it very important problem, considering there are something like a dozen single province islands of 850 land provinces.

Regarding pillaging and prosperity effects, yeah they need attending after 1.5. My concern about them rather being the disproportionate piety penalty now involved, making pillaging normal provinces always profitable activity, but others a dubious benefit.

 

[unmerged(2456)]

So by logic, apparently best and (presumably) worst neighbour rely on having land neighbours, while random swishes them away correctly. That's rather interesting find, though I don't know is it very important problem, considering there are something like a dozen single province islands of 850 land provinces.

Well it can be if you're capital is on one of them. There are several events, most notably courtiers wanting to be rewarded for human players, that fire because of this. Either we could make seperete ones for islands (and probably the 2 greenland provinces at 90% they are in the same demesne), or change it to be random_courtier. In some cases its very important that they be moved out of court...

Regarding pillaging and prosperity effects, yeah they need attending after 1.5. My concern about them rather being the disproportionate piety penalty now involved, making pillaging normal provinces always profitable activity, but others a dubious benefit.

Well...i am thinking that piety should increase as they get poore. Robbing people who can barely afford to keep living is generally not a pious act. What probably should happen is for the top two tiers there could be a prestige hit instead.

 

[unmerged(28030)]

This might be a dumb question but.....when I extract the beta files using WinRar, do I have to extract the file "Crusaders.exe"? There is no such file in the Crusader Kings program folders.

 

[LordLeto]

Just the general CK folder.

When I extract I highlight it all and choose the main CK folder and unpack like that. Works fine.

 

[unmerged(28030)]

Yeah, ussually that's what I do too, but I had an error when I tried it with Dec. 8. I had to totally reinstall everything and it works now.

 

[Hermes]

Is the extra_text.csv included in the latest beta patch now or do i still need to install the fixed extra_text-csv?

 

[Riddermark]

yes no

 

[Starforge]

Cultural Conversion

After 100 years as Poland, I had conquered all of Poland, most of Lithuania, one quarter of Russia and a few sundry provinces elsewhere (Hungary, Cuman). I was trying to build buildings / place rulers / set power levels / set laws such that Cultural conversion would be facilitated. After those 100 years, exactly 2 provinces converted and none of the 4 provinces that I had under my direct rulership for from 50 - 90 years (depending).

Frustrated by this, I went into the provincial conversion file and set the months = 1

With that value set to 1 it took 5 years to convert the 37 remaining Catholic provinces and 2 of the 4 provinces that my ruler directly controlled. This somewhat confirming my "gut" feel that if I wanted provinces converted, give them away, since, from the least developed to the most developed and from crappy rulers to supreme leaders ALL of the NPC realm provinces converted while 2 of my 4 carefully watched and managed for conversion provinces under my above average for the job leader didn't convert.

While the devs will probably say "WAD" and be done with it (/shrug), I also noticed that even with the months set to 1 not 1 of the provinces that Hungary, Germany, or (amazingly) the Turks (after conquering Byzantium and everything else around it) experienced cultural conversions. Was this disabled somehow for the other realms or turned off deliberately?

Personally I think this needs some major tweaking. Yes, it needs to be slow but having 1 province convert every 50 years seems a bit off and the modifiers seem to not function properly for the player. I saw on another thread that this was to be possibly looked at after 1.5, but thought you'd want to know about the lack of conversions for the non-player realms with the current patch and if someone else can confirm it. I'm running on the latest download but it's over older patches not a fresh install. Shouldn't matter but /shrug. It's easy to check and only takes a few years after setting the months to 1.

 

[Vharzul]

Actualy sTarforge a fresh isntall can, alter the outcome of the new patch, isntalling a patch over an older one can have unforseen effects, so best you try fresh install, its always recommended you do so when Beta testing patches, other wise you could be giving none correct data over. But amybe others have ahd the same problem have to see what others say.

 

[Riddermark]

supporting Starforge on this, it should be reviewed

 

[Starforge]

Actualy sTarforge a fresh isntall can, alter the outcome of the new patch, isntalling a patch over an older one can have unforseen effects, so best you try fresh install, its always recommended you do so when Beta testing patches, other wise you could be giving none correct data over. But amybe others have ahd the same problem have to see what others say.

Hehe, while I've seen it posted that it shouldn't matter, I'm not disagreeing with your suggestion but....hoping one of you who have a fresh install would be kind enough to give it a whirl rather than reinstall everything . Also - better to have more than one pair of eyes see the problem.

 

[Veldmaarschalk]

Well it also depends on where you start if you start in 1066 and then have played a 100 years, you will not have seen many cultural conversions, but later in the game (mid-13th and 14th century)conversions become more frequent, or at least they should. Since some later advances/buildings increase the likelyhood.

In a previous thread about this subject, that is what MrT told, or some other official beta-tester, don't remember it clearly, it has been a few months ago.

 

[Starforge]

Well it also depends on where you start if you start in 1066 and then have played a 100 years, you will not have seen many cultural conversions, but later in the game (mid-13th and 14th century)conversions become more frequent, or at least they should. Since some later advances/buildings increase the likelyhood.

In a previous thread about this subject, that is what MrT told, or some other official beta-tester, don't remember it clearly, it has been a few months ago.

There is a slight (very slight) adjustment based on the time, but the timeframe has nothing at all to do with the disproportionate conversion rate of player controlled versions player realm npc controlled provinces or the total lack of conversions of, say, all the Pecheng provinces which were owned by Hungary after the first 10 years of that 100.

As a side note...I'm no expert on all the variables in the text files but it's possible that the realm NPC provinces convert faster due to the the "Miscellaneous Modifiers". Since the computer tends to split all their holdings up into individual provinces and the modifier for "Capital Value = yes" is absulutely huge, it might go far to explaining the near 2x conversion rate of your player realm npc Duke / Count capitals versus your player controlled provinces as you'll not be converting your capital unless it's moved.