Death ray of Chaos

[Audoucet]

I tried a new tactic today, to stop Ummayad from destroying France.

I just put a permanent assassination plot on the Ummayad's head... But without trying to actually kill him. I just let it like that.

My hope was that every time a vassal becomes malcontent for some reason or another, he'd join the plot, would be discovered, and an imprisonment attempt would be made.

it should need way more testing, but I'm under the impression that it's a very effective tactic ! They don't seem to stop having revolts, and they even lost a crusade for Aquitaine, even though France was divided between around 10 different rulers and Asturia is long dead.

 

[jpinard]

I have the same problem with Ummayad right now. A few questions:

1. When your plot is found out isn't it much more likely for Ummayad to declare war on you? I don't know how big you are but I am almost king of little Burgundy in Southern France and Inthink the Ummayad's have 3x as many troops as I do.

2. Why wouod revolts be more likely if people don't like him are imprisoned as traitors? Wouod that actually make thighs more stable for his Empire?

3. Last, don't you need at least 100% for plots to move forward so someone can be discovered as plotting? I had a plot on someone for 15 years stuck with just 2 peel and nothing ever triggered with it.

Curious what you think of the above questions!

 

[Audoucet]

Well, I am Carpathian, so the first question is moot. He isn't going to attack me.

2 : Well, simply because when he tries to imprison a duke, it will start a war each time he fails to catch the guy... He will not to be any more stable, for the simple reason that well muslims are already over stable, so...

 

[jpinard]

Well, I am Carpathian, so the first question is moot. He isn't going to attack me.

2 : Well, simply because when he tries to imprison a duke, it will start a war each time he fails to catch the guy... He will not to be any more stable, for the simple reason that well muslims are already over stable, so...

Ok. So I have to hope I get to be friends with a Duke, who also hates the King of Ummayad's. That makes sense.

Sorry for all the typos in my questions. Surprised you could figure out what I was asking lol

 

[Audoucet]

Well, it isn't necessary to be friends with anyone. You just have two wait for some duke to be ambitious or to be angry against the Boss for some reason, and he will automatically join your plot.

 

[Dragatus]

I have the same problem with Ummayad right now. A few questions:

1. When your plot is found out isn't it much more likely for Ummayad to declare war on you? I don't know how big you are but I am almost king of little Burgundy in Southern France and Inthink the Ummayad's have 3x as many troops as I do.

2. Why wouod revolts be more likely if people don't like him are imprisoned as traitors? Wouod that actually make thighs more stable for his Empire?

3. Last, don't you need at least 100% for plots to move forward so someone can be discovered as plotting? I had a plot on someone for 15 years stuck with just 2 peel and nothing ever triggered with it.

Curious what you think of the above questions!

1. I'm fairly sure the AI bases who it wants to attack purely on military strength and available CBs. If they find out you're plotting, they'll hate you but you're already on their kill list, so it changes nothing.

2. There would simply always be a war whenever they want to revoke a duchy from a plotter, causing a constant drain on their economy.

3. No, you don't need 100% plot power. You can even assassinate people with less that 100% plot powoer. It just takes really long and if you have 10% plot power the victim is more likely to die of old age than for an assassination even to occur.

 

[LackNull]

If the AI is playing in a remotely intelligent way, wouldn't this just make them far more stable overall? When an imprison attempt is made either the troublemaker will be stuck in a cell unable to form factions or anything else, or he'll rebel alone and be immediately defeated, meaning he ends up in a cell *and* a title can be revoked. Only factions with several powerful vassals stand a chance of disrupting the Umayyads at all, single vassal rebellions are unlikely to accomplish anything.

Either way it seems like you're doing the Umayyads a favour to me, I'd love for someone to give me a free imprisonment reason for any problematic vassals like that.

 

[Steel_atlas]

Actually killing the Umayyads is from what I have observed at best neglible in its effect on weakening them and at worst makes them stronger.

1. If you get un-lucky early and manage to assassinate them before they have a ton of sons, the Abbasids can inherit their land.

2. Decadence needs to have a ton of sons out an about and possibly landed before it does anything (not that it does much) so killing rulers early just shortens the ammount of time they have to boost their decadence.

3. Your only going to be able to kill bad rulers its basically natural selection.

The only consitent way to stop the Umayyads from forming the Empire of Hispania is by either destroying them yourself or by many many prayers to RNJesus. Francia can lose to the Umayyads even pre-Empire tier.

I have formed the Empire of Hispania as Asturias on Very Hard Ironman on Beta but it involves allies with Charlie/Karoloman and the ERE and getting tons of gold from the relentless failed attacks of the Umayyad vassals.

 

[Garranger]

The AI also takes opinion into account afaik, I've never been attacked by a friendly Ummayad/Tulunid Sultan or Abbadasid Caliph when playing small christian neighbour, it used to be my usual tactic; keep my big neighbour happy while I built up my demesne and got rid of troublesome vassals.

That tactic changed after Conclave due to aggressive vassals, since I can only appease a single ruler at the time.

 

[Audoucet]

If the AI is playing in a remotely intelligent way, wouldn't this just make them far more stable overall? When an imprison attempt is made either the troublemaker will be stuck in a cell unable to form factions or anything else, or he'll rebel alone and be immediately defeated, meaning he ends up in a cell *and* a title can be revoked. Only factions with several powerful vassals stand a chance of disrupting the Umayyads at all, single vassal rebellions are unlikely to accomplish anything.

Either way it seems like you're doing the Umayyads a favour to me, I'd love for someone to give me a free imprisonment reason for any problematic vassals like that.

Maybe, as I said, it needs more testing, but for now, they haven't done anything since the beginning of my current game and they are always in a revolt.

Anyway I'm not sure if I'll be able to continue that save, the nomads just arrived at my door, and I can't do anything against 30k stacks...

 

[Xinkc]

I have formed the Empire of Hispania as Asturias on Very Hard Ironman on Beta but it involves allies with Charlie/Karoloman and the ERE and getting tons of gold from the relentless failed attacks of the Umayyad vassals.

Your allies actually help you against holy wars? I've gotten things like West Francia continually marching troops from Flanders to Bavaria (despite being in only the one war with no rebels) without going anywhere near Iberia.

 

[Steel_atlas]

Your allies actually help you against holy wars? I've gotten things like West Francia continually marching troops from Flanders to Bavaria (despite being in only the one war with no rebels) without going anywhere near Iberia.

I have found that rallying your army to umayyad territory in Navarre right on the Frankish border causes them to come join you, along with the Breton OPMs. Plus betrothing to Charles and Karolomans sister gives you a fairly good shot at beating them back.

Once you have survived the intial wave or two you should have like 3k gold and a child to betroth to the ERE be able to start the reconquesta even with Francia forming.

 

[klopkr]

Just use your chancellor to keep them at +100 and use favours to marry into them. I think that's the most effective way to protect from a threat.