On the positive side, these threads are always so entertaining. Time to grab some popcorn and read through all 10 pages or so.
Death or Dishonor - New Country Pack Announced!
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The dev diary says this is a country pack, rather than a full expansion like TfV was, so less focus on mechanics, all about the countries featured.
And that for New Zealand, Auckland is in state with the rest of the North Island cities. No way would the rest of the country be caught dead in the same state as Aucklanders
I'm one of the people that understand the development problems that HoI4 had in the beginning and I didn't care about the "amount" and "speed" of contentreleases we get, but this really starts to worry me.
I spent over 250€ for EUIV, over 260€ for ck2, almost 100€ for stellaris and of course I bought without questioning the HoI4 Field Marshal Edition (89,99€). I never regretted spending any € for euIV, ck2, stellaris and I for sure will throw money at paradox for the next awesome expansions/dlc for these games to come.
Sadly HoI4 starts to begin very questionable. I really hope its a bad joke that TfV+DoD are expected to be 2/3 (or 1/2?) of the expansion pass content. Especially because usually the expansion pass gives their owners a little advantage (by price or by content) above the "normal" later buying people. Here it seems more and more that actually your expansion pass supporters are the trash costumers that only deserve "hitting in the face".
I mean come on, did you even read your own "lessons learned" dev diary !!!two!!! weeks ago?
It clearly says:
"So that was the first big lesson: new content needs to tie back to major countries, particularly Germany. Thankfully, we had already decided that our next DLC should focus more on the Axis, so we wouldn’t have to try too hard to come up with reasons why Germany should be involved."
IN THE WHOLE ANNOUNCEMENT TODAY GERMANY ISN'T EVEN MENTIONED ONCE!!! There is NOTHING at all in this "dlc" for germany.
PS: You really should remove this sticky post https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/expansion-pass-faq.975687/ because "we've decided to release a smaller expansion at first" is far beyond being a total joke.
Well, as a reminder, when we purchased the Expansion Pass #1, a year ago, we where told that we would get two huge expansions worth $50.
But then, after six months, the first expansion was TfV. A small one worth $14,99.
So, they promised us that TfV was just an hors-d'œuvre, before we get the two real huge expansions that we have paid for. Hoorah.
And, once again, after six months, they announce DoD as the second expansion. But, oh, surprise, this one is even smaller than TfV. $9,99.
But, hey, apparently, that's part of their new plan, so everything's okay! Now, they really promise it, the third and last expansion will really be a huge one, this time!
I really love Paradox, and I really want to love HoI 4. But for now, they are juste lying, all over again.
So... two sides of the argument here.
In the defense of the developers, developing focus trees and doing research is a time consuming activity in its own right. Planning and creating content is a time management nightmare and I understand content and ideas in general undergo serious changes before anything gets shown or released. When it comes to Hearts of Iron 4, a game with particularly many variations of outcomes, I can only imagine how frustrating and time consuming it must be to make sure everything sits well.
All that being said, I will say it is a shame not to see Bulgaria and Greece included and in general some Italy and Germany national foci trees not get updated (actually for the latter two maybe it would be better if those were free). Both countries had some serious challenges at the time. While I fully applaud the chosen countries, I cannot help but feel it would be even better with the addition of these two. While I am not a Field Marshal edition purchaser, I do feel for them since this content is just short of being truly great. I will most certainly buy it as it is, but in its current state, I see it as only good content.
All that being said, I disapprove of comparisons of relevant/irrelevant countries or in general the "jump to conclusion" about devs having preferential treatment for countries. Their job is hard enough without everyone riding their back.
In the defense of the developers, developing focus trees and doing research is a time consuming activity in its own right. Planning and creating content is a time management nightmare and I understand content and ideas in general undergo serious changes before anything gets shown or released. When it comes to Hearts of Iron 4, a game with particularly many variations of outcomes, I can only imagine how frustrating and time consuming it must be to make sure everything sits well.
All that being said, I will say it is a shame not to see Bulgaria and Greece included and in general some Italy and Germany national foci trees not get updated (actually for the latter two maybe it would be better if those were free). Both countries had some serious challenges at the time. While I fully applaud the chosen countries, I cannot help but feel it would be even better with the addition of these two. While I am not a Field Marshal edition purchaser, I do feel for them since this content is just short of being truly great. I will most certainly buy it as it is, but in its current state, I see it as only good content.
All that being said, I disapprove of comparisons of relevant/irrelevant countries or in general the "jump to conclusion" about devs having preferential treatment for countries. Their job is hard enough without everyone riding their back.
Whine some more. Devs clearly stated that they don't want a 100% accurate simulation, but more sandboxish approach. Your problem, not ours, lol
Finland along with Bulgaria really would have been way better then Romania or Czechoslovakia as Finland would have been interesting as well as Bulgaria they could have done something with Bulgarian want of there old lands back. Also why make a tree and stuff for a country that will be steamrolled.No Finland and Bulgaria?
Well, as a roleplayer before anything else so I am happy about it. The price is also fair I would say, if you compare it with similar DLCs in Eu4 or Ck2.
I had a small list of countries even before release that I RELLAY wanted a flavor and NF packs for because they felt just boring in game while being super interesting historically. It was India (got it now), China, Poland (day one so...), Turkey, Finland and especially Hungary (coming). Hungary is coming now, so I will probably buy it day one just for 50-60 hours balkan madness.
I had a small list of countries even before release that I RELLAY wanted a flavor and NF packs for because they felt just boring in game while being super interesting historically. It was India (got it now), China, Poland (day one so...), Turkey, Finland and especially Hungary (coming). Hungary is coming now, so I will probably buy it day one just for 50-60 hours balkan madness.
I want to say that I'm glad that you're open to mechanics specific to the situation in China and look forward to what you have to show us im the future.
Also, wouldn't Bulgaria work nicely in a Turkey/Greece/Albania/Bulgaria DLC?
Maybe in a Winter War focused pack? Includes scorched earth and guerilla warfare?
Maybe I am in the "Wargamer Forum Warrior" minority but all joking aside, I think you guys are ridiculous and lack context. This DLC costs less than one hour of honest work at a marginal low paying job.. is it really not worth that?
I thank God that a company like Paradox makes these sorts of games and I gladly pay them for it. They have earned my trust and I know I get great value out of it. If you prefer the competition so be it... though I imagine you will be quite lonely.
Keep praying for cheap stuff or sacred modders to give you things, I will continue to put my money in Paradox.
I thank God that a company like Paradox makes these sorts of games and I gladly pay them for it. They have earned my trust and I know I get great value out of it. If you prefer the competition so be it... though I imagine you will be quite lonely.
Keep praying for cheap stuff or sacred modders to give you things, I will continue to put my money in Paradox.
Have you really read this thread?
All the rant is because Paradox was talking about huge expansions for HoI 4, but this far, we'll only get two petty DLC.
It's not about money. It's about costumer service and work done.
When after TfV they promised a true, bigger expansion for axis, we were expecting... a true, bigger expansion for axis.
However, we end up with a ridiculously cheap add-on.
Right, so with the Commonwealth DLC the allies had 5 new country DLCs and with this "Axis" DLC we get two Axis countries and two Allied ones? Makes sense. They really listened to the people wanting more Axis content.
I was sooooooo excited to play a Bulgaria game with some focuses and whatnot but now my dreams have been shatteredNo Finland and Bulgaria?
Really activates my almonds huh...
Paradox sure did drop the ball for Hoi4 compared to the more community engaging Stellaris with @pdx_wiz
Add some motha**** aluminum to Asia, and for the love of god if you do not do HARDCORE pacific focused DLC for next expansion with JAPAN overhaul, CHINA, PRC, MANCHUKUO, and PHILIPPINES focuses + fix to naval mechanics and create some meaningful partisan activity / core defense bonuses to the Chinese you will surely have the expansion pass owners riot. You think that 38% positive reviews for TFV is bad?
You will be surprised at what the future may hold...
Add aluminum to Asia
Add the ALUMINUM
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Not too hard to see where the controversy has come from I guess, as the impression earlier was that TfV would precede more involve 'mechanics' expansions based on air, land and sea - so disappointment amongst folk is only natural, and it's the internet so disappointed folk are likely to get excited and express it quickly, perhaps without thinking as much as they may.
However, it's also worth keeping in mind that the AI and foundation for a game like HoI is exponentially harder than for the likes of Stellaris, EU4 or CK2. Warfare in CK2 and Stellaris is pretty much one-dimensional (it's on land or in space, with sieges/planet invasions), with very small numbers of discrete on-map units involved (often single-digit). EU4 is a little more complex, with a greater naval element, but the number of units involved is still tiny. Logistics for all three are so threadbare as to be close to non-existent.
Compare this with HoI4, and you've often got more discrete on-map units under a single field marshal for one nation than all the units of all the nations in a large war in any of the other three games. You've also got a more complicated logistics model, more complicated units themselves, and three levels of warfare (air, land and sea).
In that context, I suspect that it took more work than was expected to get the 'base' AI where the devs wanted it to be, so they switched focus to a smaller DLC and more resources spent on making the base game work better. Ie, a smaller DLC means we're getting more for free in the 1.4 patch.
There's always a little adjustment required when plans change (I was hoping for a larger DLC as well), but it's worth keeping in mind:
Personally, while initially a little disappointed that we're not getting a larger DLC (which I'd bet good money is because the base game is still causing the devs more headaches than I suspect they expected), I'm very happy that the devs have decided to double-down on getting the base game working better - if I had to choose between "improve base game because it's not where we want it to be" and "spend more effort on a larger DLC pack and do less work on the base game", I'd go the core improvements every time .
However, it's also worth keeping in mind that the AI and foundation for a game like HoI is exponentially harder than for the likes of Stellaris, EU4 or CK2. Warfare in CK2 and Stellaris is pretty much one-dimensional (it's on land or in space, with sieges/planet invasions), with very small numbers of discrete on-map units involved (often single-digit). EU4 is a little more complex, with a greater naval element, but the number of units involved is still tiny. Logistics for all three are so threadbare as to be close to non-existent.
Compare this with HoI4, and you've often got more discrete on-map units under a single field marshal for one nation than all the units of all the nations in a large war in any of the other three games. You've also got a more complicated logistics model, more complicated units themselves, and three levels of warfare (air, land and sea).
In that context, I suspect that it took more work than was expected to get the 'base' AI where the devs wanted it to be, so they switched focus to a smaller DLC and more resources spent on making the base game work better. Ie, a smaller DLC means we're getting more for free in the 1.4 patch.
There's always a little adjustment required when plans change (I was hoping for a larger DLC as well
), but it's worth keeping in mind:- A larger DLC without the work on the AI would just have everyone bellyaching that Paradox are selling DLC without spending an effort on the base game (which people do a lot of anyways). Here's evidence of Paradox putting a lot of effort into the base game (which is a very complex game at that) at the expense of DLC.
- Assessing the DLC without taking into account the work going into 1.4, particularly given the smaller size of the DLC (and the very reasonable price), would be horrendously unfair. Sure, the mechanics changes in the DLC may turn out to be relatively minor, but if the AI changes and air war rework are substantial, then that's still a huge step forward for the game (and one which everyone gets without having to pay for). This is not a bad thing (and, under the HoI3 model, it would all be in the DLC).
- Even for people that never play these countries, their altered behaviour via the focus trees (as well as altered strengths) will have a substantial impact on the overall game.
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