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Castimirr

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It's also very rare that your personal combat skill will be higher than the enemy commander's, so you're just increasing the chances you die by dueling him. They should lower the chances for these events immensely.

I was going to disagree about this part and then remembered I'm doing a pagan run and in a warrior society, so my PCS is ridiculously high. Being on the receiving end of it is brutal. I'm enjoying it at the moment but it really needs to be toned down I think. It's too much of an "I win" button currently.
 

Tryvenyal

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The game makes zero differentiation between generals (say, a king directing his troops as a general might) and front-line warriors leading troops into battle (say, a Viking warlord leading his men). The game just assumes that the leader is both, charging headlong into battle while at the same time choosing tactics and strategy for the next phase of battle...

The game does simply put not have generals. A flank-leader is where the flank is. The center commander is higher than the others but still with the flank. Commanders are just commanders, whether they are also counts or emperers after all.

The problem is that there are usually no good events in a battle. It's always something terrible.
-you lose your pet
-you lose a limb
-you lose an artifact
-you get PTSD (this is the only one that makes sense imo)
-you DIE

It's also very rare that your personal combat skill will be higher than the enemy commander's, so you're just increasing the chances you die by dueling him. They should lower the chances for these events immensely.

Thats why emperes and kings Employ commanders. :)

My charachters leading troops allways are higher in PC than the enemy commanders. I look that up moments before battle. Me or my heir never battle commanders with higher PC. We also - therefore probably rarely dies.

Battles are a big risks - big rewards. If you don't lead, you rarely get artifacts or improved combatability - which makes sense. And I think few people survive 20 vicious battlefields.
 
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Rags17

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What is broken? Isn't war about killing in battle? What protects your warrior king? Except his clothes draws attention to him, making him a target for enemy archers etc? Even in a melee, he can make clumsy move, fall over his recent kill and become a easy target for the most untrained opponent.

Being brave does not help him. That makes him take hasty decisions for the glory :)

Skill can reduce the chance/risk but being commander means you might die!

Based on my experience with various medieval reenactment groups as well as lots of reading on the subject it is my belief that a commander's chance of death in combat should be very rare unless their side lost the battle by a very large margin AND the enemy had a significant advantage in mounted troops.

Consider.

First off, apart from the usual collection of aides, couriers and lieutenants, the King himself would ALWAYS be surrounded with a small group of the absolute best fighters in the kingdom, all sworn to defend him to the death. These might only number half a dozen or so, but they in turn would be protected by the King's own personal guard, numbering in the score or more. This would be a much larger unit, but would also be manned by picked and highly trained troops all tightly focused on their one primary objective which is to keep the King alive. Supporting these troops would be the rest of the King's retinue of anywhere up to 250 troops, which would again be filled with highly trained troops devoted to the King's safety - that is after all pretty much all they are being paid for.

The King himself may or may not choose to advance into the fray, but even if he did then his elite minders and personal bodyguard would do whatever it took to keep the king safe. Their own personal glory would (should !) be subordinate to keeping an eye on the King - accidents and distractions can and would always happen (arrow to the eye anyone ?) but in most cases if the King was wounded in any way then he would quickly be shuttled out of combat and back to safety.

Helping here is the fact that the King would in most cases be mounted, but even if he wasn't then fast horses of some sort would be near at hand in case a quick escape was needed. This means that even if the King was wounded and even if his personal bodyguard was being smashed and even if his entire army collapsed, in most cases he should be able to flee to safety, unless he was facing an enemy with outstanding fast troops, ie light horse, horse archers etc.


TL;DR - The chance for sudden accidental death should always exist in combat, especially with Brave, Wroth, Arbitrary or otherwise reckless commanders, but the actual chance of death or capture should be very low unless the battle is lost AND the victor's surviving pursuit troops significantly outnumbered the loser's.
 

DPS

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There's nothing wrong IMO with any of the battlefield events except that they fire too often. Any fix should be limited to making them a bit less common.
 

Tryvenyal

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First off, apart from the usual collection of aides, couriers and lieutenants, the King himself would ALWAYS be surrounded with a small group of the absolute best fighters in the kingdom, all sworn to defend him to the death. These might only number half a dozen or so, but they in turn would be protected by the King's own personal guard, numbering in the score or more. This would be a much larger unit, but would also be manned by picked and highly trained troops all tightly focused on their one primary objective which is to keep the King alive. Supporting these troops would be the rest of the King's retinue of anywhere up to 250 troops, which would again be filled with highly trained troops devoted to the King's safety - that is after all pretty much all they are being paid for.

Sorry, this is in my opinion a great description of a general, not a commander :) Sadly, this game does not picture Generals at all. I chose to picture it as allways beeing a general when I´m not a commander in my own army. A commander can't have a lifeguard, though a general has. A general does not physically fight though a Commander certainly is.

TL;DR - The chance for sudden accidental death should always exist in combat, especially with Brave, Wroth, Arbitrary or otherwise reckless commanders, but the actual chance of death or capture should be very low unless the battle is lost AND the victor's surviving pursuit troops significantly outnumbered the loser's.

Sure! This would also reduce the number of positive events and.. francly.. mean exactly the same as not beeing in the army.

I withstand - a commander leads the flank. A general does not fight. As a general he has small risk, I agree. But also does not get any PC increasing events as he does not really fight on his own. As a rare event, he might upgrade his martial education or get a tactic. Alot more rarely than a commander.
 

Rags17

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I've written elsewhere that the chance of battlefield death or injury should go way down the larger the army. If you were Commander of a 30 man army then you would basically be the head of a football team and would be expected to be in the thick of it. If your army was 300 strong then you would have a movie theater sized crowd and may lead from the front or inspire from the rear. If your army was 30,000 strong then it would be almost certain that you would lead from the rear - there would be no way to provide overall direction of the battle while also hacking heads.

In actual fact the chance of death actually goes UP the larger your army - the chance of a battlefield event is checked every tick of the battle clock and larger battles naturally last longer and thus get many more "ticks" for events to happen. This is entirely counter intuitive but I can't see any way of fixing it short of adding a variable to the event chance that checks for army size and reduces the chance accordingly.
 

Tryvenyal

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I've written elsewhere that the chance of battlefield death or injury should go way down the larger the army. If you were Commander of a 30 man army then you would basically be the head of a football team and would be expected to be in the thick of it. If your army was 300 strong then you would have a movie theater sized crowd and may lead from the front or inspire from the rear. If your army was 30,000 strong then it would be almost certain that you would lead from the rear - there would be no way to provide overall direction of the battle while also hacking heads.

In actual fact the chance of death actually goes UP the larger your army - the chance of a battlefield event is checked every tick of the battle clock and larger battles naturally last longer and thus get many more "ticks" for events to happen. This is entirely counter intuitive but I can't see any way of fixing it short of adding a variable to the event chance that checks for army size and reduces the chance accordingly.

I can agree. With the change from "Battlefield death or injury" to "Battlefield events". If you are not physically fighting, you should have no battle events whatsoever :) You should have "General events" that affects your leadership and tactics, not your fighting ability.
 

Cal585

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AND the enemy had a significant advantage in mounted troops.

That'd be a fun additional use for cavalry.

I do feel like the game makes it feel like you're a coward if you're not leading an army and that if you're a militant character, then RP wise you should be commanding. It feels like you're either on the front lines, or back at home in your castle with no middle ground. Then you factor in the AI limitations and it could be worth a tweak to how things currently work.
 

Linred

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i think brave is actually a risky trait to have as a battle commander. it's decent for a duelist (personal combat bonus) and generally as a ruler trait (opinion bonus), but afaik it increases the chance that this combat death event happens. i've had some post battle pop up on some brave characters that awarded them bonus prestige for fighting bravely in the melee or whatever, but i guess it might even be a different outcome to that same event that can also end in instant death if it rolls a different result.

kinda makes sense i think. a glory seeker who ignores personal safety out of a feeling of honor would have much higher chances to die on the battlefield



pretty sure that event is supposed to represent https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posttraumatic_stress_disorder
i was suprised when i first got it (i think it was added with the holy fury update, never had it before), but it kinda makes sense. just because people back then didn't have a proper scientific word for it doesn't mean that it didn't happen.

Please.... This is another entry into the long list of paradox's presentism and biased representation that gives you a skewed perception of history.

I forgot the rules about linking to other sites, but here is an exceprt from sapere_avede on askhistorians on the topic of PTSD and ancient warfare that is still relevant for the CK2 time period.

I have finished my MA Thesis since I last responded to a post on this topic. Unfortunately, since responding to that post a year ago, my direction has changed. My focus is now on the question of whether or not a diagnosis of PTSD can be identified in the ancient world in general. As much as I had wanted to do this for soldiers specifically, the nature of the evidence makes it an extremely difficult argument to establish with any security. The reason for this is that 1) nearly all the sources we have which do hint at PTSD in soldiers are anecdotal and come laden with the author's biases and agenda, 2) among these anecdotes, there are actually very few which imply a link between trauma and the experience of combat, and none which directly state it, 3) material sources like inscriptions or papyri make little to no mention of trauma due to battle, and 4) in the field of Psychology itself the debate is still open whether the stimuli that can cause trauma are universal or are determined by individual experience. The closest we can get is the fact that in some papyri from around the Severan Dynasty there appears to be an acknowledgement of military discharge due to mental illness, but again, the sources do not tie this mental illness to experience in battle, explicitly or even implicitly. So if one wants to discuss battle-related trauma in the Roman army it is hard to do without speaking only in generalities. Nevertheless, there has been some good work done on this. Korneel Van Lommel, a Belgian historian, has published some good articles on mental impairment in Roman soldiers using the sources I just mentioned. Here is where you can find his work.

As far as my own research is concerned, I am really interested in posing a solid argument for Post-Traumatic Stress in the Roman world which, despite the problems of finding PTSD in soldiers, is not impossible to do when it comes to the general populace. I still make use of the cross-cultural model for PTSD which focuses on intrusive memory symptoms as the common point for all trauma victims, regardless of culture. In the medical texts of Celsus and Aretaeus, the fact that some of their patients claimed to see the ghosts of the dead is mentioned in no uncertain terms. Outside of medicine, Lucretius mention this same phenomenon and further notes that it happens both when the sufferer is asleep and when he is awake. On the less reliable side of things, this exact phenomenon is a big topos for historians like Tacitus, Plutarch, and Josephus. The fact that the same thing appears in medical texts and that Lucretius feels the need to address it as a natural phenomenon lends some weight to the anecdotal evidence. More importantly, our Roman medical descriptions fit perfectly with our cross-cultural PTSD model's description of intrusive memory symptoms. What's more, there are modern comparisons one can make. Several African tribespeople diagnosed with PTSD choose to describe their symptoms in terms of ghost haunting or witchcraft. The symptomatology is all there, in both ancient and modern sources. One of the main difficulties is the differing prisms through which ancient and modern physicians organize and describe mental illness. We like to have neat recipes for psychological disorders. A and B plus C or D equals a patient with Borderline Personality Disorder. Ancient sources prefer to have all the ingredients laid out before them. A or B or C or D can happen when a patient suffers from insania. These broad categories in ancient medicine disallow us from finding a clear-cut corollary for PTSD in ancient Rome, but they do allow us to say with a comfortable degree of certainty that PTSD existed, was noticed, was written about, and made its way into the public consciousness via myth and anecdote.

As to what could cause PTSD in ancient Rome, that is more difficult. Here we must rely mostly on stories in order to get a feel for what was and was not a trauma-inducing experience. Going off of the conclusions above, I've found very little which indicates that violence could induce trauma (that is, intrusive memory symptoms in the guise of seeing ghosts). Instead, this kind of thing crops up around individuals who have experienced a loss or violation of public honor or status. Going against the dictates of society or failing to live up to its expectations appear to have been a greater cause for trauma than risk of life and limb. Josephus gives my favorite example of this when he mentions a Syrian governor named Catullus, who harbors a fleeing Jewish rebel leader in the wake of the Great Revolt of 68-69. The governor uses intel from the rebel (which he knows to be false) as an excuse to put hundreds of Jewish families in his province to death and to seize their wealth. He then takes his booty and presents it to Vespasian, thinking that Vespasian will be pleased with his actions. Vespasian rejects the offer, calls the governor out on murdering innocent people, and proceeds to burn the governor's turncoat informant to death. Catullus himself gets treated with velvet gloves, even being given a room in the imperial palace. This is the point where the governor's mind breaks down. He begins to see the ghosts of the people he has killed and wakes up at night screaming. Ostensibly, we might link this development to guilt over ordering so many innocents to their deaths, but I think it is important to take note that Josephus has the governor lose his sanity only after Vespasian disapproves of his actions and relents from meting out the deserved punishment to Catullus himself. This series of events ties in very strongly to the differences in thinking between a "guilt culture" and a "shame culture." Time and time again, it is clear from our sources that public loss of face was much more devastating than personal dissatisfaction or guilt.

Therefore, if societal acceptance or rejection was the primary arbiter of mental trauma, it follows that killing on the battlefield would necessarily be less traumatizing in a society which approves of such behavior than in a society which does not. Based on what I've read, it appears that for a Roman soldier, running away from a battle (and being seen running away by your peers) would be immensely more traumatizing that the act of gutting a barbarian on the front lines.

But this approach has it's own issues: namely the ever-present problem that most of our sources speak exclusively from the aristocratic point of view. So it is difficult to say whether these conclusions could apply to Romans of every stratum. Anyhow, I hope that this answers your question somewhat. I wish I could give you more on the psychological impact of killing, especially since your question is exactly what set me on this path in the first place! Another source you may want to check out is Mental Disorders in the Classical World, William V. Harris, ed. It does not have any solid material on PTSD, but is the most recent and thorough research on mental illness in antiquity that I have found. I'd love to fill that gap someday, but have been much too daunted by the prospect of publication. That's what New Years resolutions are for I suppose! W.V. Harris himself is also a fantastic writer on emotions in antiquity. He has a great book on anger in antiquity called Restraining Rage.
 

bbatthew

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Please.... This is another entry into the long list of paradox's presentism and biased representation that gives you a skewed perception of history.

I forgot the rules about linking to other sites, but here is an exceprt from sapere_avede on askhistorians on the topic of PTSD and ancient warfare that is still relevant for the CK2 time period.
At least it makes more sense than "your cat took an arrow for you" or "you threw away your artifact so that you had a chance to escape"
 

Ixalmaris

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Death in combat was surely a pretty rare cause of death for Medieval monarchs?! Harold and Richard I are the only English kings I can think of during the CKII period. Byzantines only had 3 emperors killed in battle over a much longer time period (Nikephoros I, Constantine Laskaris and Constantine XI).

It's a very rare event, and the game would ideally reflect this.
And how many English kings did personally lead armies in the CK2 timeframe and how many battles did they fight?
How many Byzantine emperors preferred to stay at home and let others lead the armies?
And how many lesser nobles were cut downin service of their liege.

Leading a army in CK2 means leading an army in battle and not staying back to give moral support. And for that the chance of dieing is appropriate.

Edit:
In actual fact the chance of death actually goes UP the larger your army - the chance of a battlefield event is checked every tick of the battle clock and larger battles naturally last longer and thus get many more "ticks" for events to happen.

Actually the chance of death goes up if both sides are evenly matched. If only you have a large army you win within a few ticks. Same situation when the enemy vastly outnumbers you and you start running instantly.

It makes sense that the death count goes up when both sides think that they can win and keep on fighting.
 
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Hmmph, this thread was started yesterday, so I presume it relates to the latest version of the game but one thing OP didn't make clear is what DLC and/or mods/tweaks and settings were in place.

For me: having played around 200 or so hours starting from a Bohemian Count "Mnata" and having sent my leader into battle whenever it seemed like it was at least less than "Foolhardy," and avoided sending them into battle whenever it DID seem foolhardy . . . I have not seen a problem which would suggest to me that "the code is broken."

Starting in 769 and presently at about 850 and I think I've had about 6 leaders in all, and I've had MAYBE one get killed in battle. I think I also had one get killed in a duel and that was a shocker, given his opponent seemed to be quite an amateur . . . still, it can happen. David did supposedly slay Goliath . . .

Honestly, I'm afraid that the question of whether the code "is broken" or not really cannot be answered objectively from our standpoint as users. Anecdotes are NEVER going to be instructive about such a thing. However, presumably PDS has the capacity with a "test rig" sort of setup in their Visual Studio version of the source code to setup specific situations and then run them 1000 or 10000 times and see how they turn out. If they do NOT have that kind of capacity then they really should focus on developing that for Clausewitz Engine.

Assuming they did have that capacity, then it is a simple matter for a dev to reply to a thread like this to say: "What conditions do you want us to plug in? We'll run it 5,000 times and see the distributions for you . . . Nope, no problems. Distributions are turning out just like we expected."

The game does simply put not have generals. A flank-leader is where the flank is. The center commander is higher than the others but still with the flank. Commanders are just commanders, whether they are also counts or emperers after all.



Thats why emperes and kings Employ commanders. :)

My charachters leading troops allways are higher in PC than the enemy commanders. I look that up moments before battle. Me or my heir never battle commanders with higher PC. We also - therefore probably rarely dies.

Battles are a big risks - big rewards. If you don't lead, you rarely get artifacts or improved combatability - which makes sense. And I think few people survive 20 vicious battlefields.

I agree. If you are "prudent" about how you pay attention to details and choose your battles carefully, you can (with the right culture/society membership/focus choices, etc.) take your leader character from being an incompetent commander to being a God of War.

My present character, Svatopluk King of Bohemia started with an Martial of about 3 maybe 4 at age 16, and personal combat skill must have been may be 6 or 8. Here is he now . . .
75734B409581996E0743972E1586A37EBAB8D1E0

I think he has won at least a half dozen duels, probably more. Been in probably between more than 20 battles.

Now granted, I have ALL the DLC and I'm availing myself of the features that can benefit my toon from those! Artifacts, choices, duels, Warrior Lodge, etc. . . .
 
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Prince Ire

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They were not commanders, were they? I´d rather guess they were Generals. A general rarely lifts his blade, does he?
Generals were expected to participate in battle alongside their troops. If you will not fight for yourself, why should they?

It makes sense that the death count goes up when both sides think that they can win and keep on fighting.
During the Middle Ages, few casualties were taken in the battles themselves. The casualties mostly came in when one side broke and routed.
 
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I agree. If you are "prudent" about how you pay attention to details and choose your battles carefully, you can (with the right culture/society membership/focus choices, etc.) take your leader character from being an incompetent commander to being a God of War.

Well... CK2 is a Charachter driven game, isn't it? Not careing for these details is like not caring about your car in Need for Speed or not caring about your team in Football Manager :) IE, you SHOULD die on a forgotten battlefield!! :D
 

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Hmmph, this thread was started yesterday, so I presume it relates to the latest version of the game but one thing OP didn't make clear is what DLC and/or mods/tweaks and settings were in place.

For me: having played around 200 or so hours starting from a Bohemian Count "Mnata" and having sent my leader into battle whenever it seemed like it was at least less than "Foolhardy," and avoided sending them into battle whenever it DID seem foolhardy . . . I have not seen a problem which would suggest to me that "the code is broken."

Starting in 769 and presently at about 850 and I think I've had about 6 leaders in all, and I've had MAYBE one get killed in battle. I think I also had one get killed in a duel and that was a shocker, given his opponent seemed to be quite an amateur . . . still, it can happen. David did supposedly slay Goliath . . .

Honestly, I'm afraid that the question of whether the code "is broken" or not really cannot be answered objectively from our standpoint as users. Anecdotes are NEVER going to be instructive about such a thing. However, presumably PDS has the capacity with a "test rig" sort of setup in their Visual Studio version of the source code to setup specific situations and then run them 1000 or 10000 times and see how they turn out. If they do NOT have that kind of capacity then they really should focus on developing that for Clausewitz Engine.

Assuming they did have that capacity, then it is a simple matter for a dev to reply to a thread like this to say: "What conditions do you want us to plug in? We'll run it 5,000 times and see the distributions for you . . . Nope, no problems. Distributions are turning out just like we expected."



I agree. If you are "prudent" about how you pay attention to details and choose your battles carefully, you can (with the right culture/society membership/focus choices, etc.) take your leader character from being an incompetent commander to being a God of War.

My present character, Svatopluk King of Bohemia started with an Martial of about 3 maybe 4 at age 16, and personal combat skill must have been may be 6 or 8. Here is he now . . .
75734B409581996E0743972E1586A37EBAB8D1E0

I think he has won at least a half dozen duels, probably more. Been in probably between more than 20 battles.

Now granted, I have ALL the DLC and I'm availing myself of the features that can benefit my toon from those! Artifacts, choices, duels, Warrior Lodge, etc. . . .

Reading about your experiences I'm wondering if part of the problem is that the code was changed to balance out some of the benefits that were added in Holy Fury, which is a problem for me as I haven't bought that DLC (yet!). One of the reasons I started this playthrough is to see if I still love the game enough to shell out for the last few DLCs that came out since I played last, so I also don't have Jade Dragon, Rajas of India or Horse Lords, I'm maybe missing a couple of cosmetic DLCs, and I have no mods.

I'm aware that anecdotal evidence is not exactly the best form of evidence, but IMHO the results I'm seeing suggest that the code appears flawed in a way that just wasn't the case when I played CK2 to death a couple of years ago. One or two instances of weirdness is just "RNGeesus hates me!", but this happens way too often. I just saw an AI v AI war end almost the same instant it started and when I looked to see what the hell just happened, the Duchess who was the head of one of the factions fighting had been killed in battle. The year that this happened is about 1002, and even in my enlightnened and technologically advanced realm, women only have access to the spymaster role, so why was a Catholic Duchess leading the line? Why did a leader dies event fire within a day or two of the battle starting? Why didn't any enemy soldiers try to capture and ransom the only noble woman on the battlefield? How is there any way that it makes sense that a war between 2 Duchies started and ended because a Duchess (who wasn't a lunatic or anything similar by the way!) charged headlong into the enemy to get the battle started and insta-died?

Another example - I decided to risk leading another army with my king on roleplaying grounds, as it was against a Scottish noble that had tried to have my character assassinated when my character was still just the heir. My 5000 strong army, led by my king, caught a small unit from an enemy vassal before they could travel through to where most of their armies were assembling. Their vassal army was only about 400 strong, and we slaughtered them to a man with a loss of only 4 from our army, and yet a battle event fired that gave me two options. Option one was playing dead while my comrades were all cut down around me (with dark hints about how it would be an event that would haunt me later), option 2 was a duel with the enemy leader. How does it make sense for this event to fire in such a one sided rout? (In the event it worked out fine because my leader has a high personal combat skill, but that doesnt stop this from being dumb!)
 

Anthropoid

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Well... CK2 is a Charachter driven game, isn't it? Not careing for these details is like not caring about your car in Need for Speed or not caring about your team in Football Manager :) IE, you SHOULD die on a forgotten battlefield!! :D

Well, yes and no. I think it is "about halfway" between being a character-simulator and a Medieval dynasties simulator, but slanted toward the dynasties side of thing. With all the additional stuff in the DLC, they have done quite a bit to flesh out the "character side" of things; including the possibility to die in a duel, get severely wounded (and probably die) in battle, get your dog killed in battle, get maimed in battle, get ambushed and killed by highwaymen, die of depression, die of malnourishment, die of diarrhea, die of _insert two score alternative names of ailments_, etc.

Reading about your experiences I'm wondering if part of the problem is that the code was changed to balance out some of the benefits that were added in Holy Fury, which is a problem for me as I haven't bought that DLC (yet!). One of the reasons I started this playthrough is to see if I still love the game enough to shell out for the last few DLCs that came out since I played last, so I also don't have Jade Dragon, Rajas of India or Horse Lords, I'm maybe missing a couple of cosmetic DLCs, and I have no mods.

I think that is a quite likely explanation and I think it reveals one of the other downfalls of the product parsing and distribution method they have chosen.

The game is clearly MUCH better with all the DLC. So if you buy "Crusader Kings II" for $35 you don't actually OWN Crusader Kings II. You own the demo. The whole game is another ~$100+ and that whole game is markedly better in every way than the demo.

I'm aware that anecdotal evidence is not exactly the best form of evidence, but IMHO the results I'm seeing suggest that the code appears flawed in a way that just wasn't the case when I played CK2 to death a couple of years ago. One or two instances of weirdness is just "RNGeesus hates me!", but this happens way too often. I just saw an AI v AI war end almost the same instant it started and when I looked to see what the hell just happened, the Duchess who was the head of one of the factions fighting had been killed in battle. The year that this happened is about 1002, and even in my enlightened and technologically advanced realm, women only have access to the spymaster role, so why was a Catholic Duchess leading the line? Why did a leader dies event fire within a day or two of the battle starting? Why didn't any enemy soldiers try to capture and ransom the only noble woman on the battlefield? How is there any way that it makes sense that a war between 2 Duchies started and ended because a Duchess (who wasn't a lunatic or anything similar by the way!) charged headlong into the enemy to get the battle started and insta-died?

Another example - I decided to risk leading another army with my king on roleplaying grounds, as it was against a Scottish noble that had tried to have my character assassinated when my character was still just the heir. My 5000 strong army, led by my king, caught a small unit from an enemy vassal before they could travel through to where most of their armies were assembling. Their vassal army was only about 400 strong, and we slaughtered them to a man with a loss of only 4 from our army, and yet a battle event fired that gave me two options. Option one was playing dead while my comrades were all cut down around me (with dark hints about how it would be an event that would haunt me later), option 2 was a duel with the enemy leader. How does it make sense for this event to fire in such a one sided rout? (In the event it worked out fine because my leader has a high personal combat skill, but that doesnt stop this from being dumb!)

I hate to say it but . . . maybe get hold of the additional main DLC . . . :oops: If you skip out on all the portrait and unit packs and the additional two or three additional content packs for the Conclave and Horse Lords DLC then maybe you can get by at around an additional $35?

I will say: it isn't that the whole game "is not worth" $150. Its just that . . . that is a lot of money and a lot more than most games sell for.
 

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Its actually really simple. Sending a character into combat, and that is what being a commander represents, is risky, especally if he is not very good in combat either with leading troops or personal combat.
And even if the character is a very good combatant there is always the chance that some unnamed guy lands a crippling blow or that an ambush will leave him surrounded.

No matter what Paradox does, there will always be cases where people will rage because their character died in combat.
If you do not want to take the risk of your character dieing in battle don't make him a commander. Its as simple as that.
 

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At the very least, you have to admit that this is by far the most effective method of suicide. I'm not too much of a fan of dying in battle myself, but I make a habit of not leading, which is completely normal for any non pagan unless you are a cusader king of jerusalem and need every bonus you get to survive the first jihads
 

Tryvenyal

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Its actually really simple. Sending a character into combat, and that is what being a commander represents, is risky, especally if he is not very good in combat either with leading troops or personal combat.
And even if the character is a very good combatant there is always the chance that some unnamed guy lands a crippling blow or that an ambush will leave him surrounded.

No matter what Paradox does, there will always be cases where people will rage because their character died in combat.
If you do not want to take the risk of your character dieing in battle don't make him a commander. Its as simple as that.

Fully agree! The only change I can really see is a game rule where your ruler by default is not allowed to be commander but can be allowed via the sword/shield icon in charachter view. Except that, I love the game as it is :)
 

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At the very least, you have to admit that this is by far the most effective method of suicide. I'm not too much of a fan of dying in battle myself, but I make a habit of not leading, which is completely normal for any non pagan unless you are a cusader king of jerusalem and need every bonus you get to survive the first jihads

No, actually I'd have to disagree firmly with that idea. I have actually TRIED to get commanders killed this way and it never worked. I literally sent this one guy back into combat half dozen times, whittling a stack of 500 down to just literally ONE. He got wounded but never died, and then he recovered.

It MIGHT be more effective for the player character, or my anecdotes might not match up with someone elses, but that has been my experience.

ADDIT: I also feel compelled to add: I relish the passive-aggressiveness of this community So often I get a few "Respectfully disagrees" but then I almost never see anyone actually respond to anything I say and try to rebut it or explain disagreement. I do take some pride in that :D