Death Cult issue

[Nuclear Elvis]

Playing CK2 with all DLCs (Imperial Collection), with the Devil-worship cults turned off, and shattered retreat off, as my only deviations from Default settings (and in Ironman for achievements to remain possible). I'm playing the "White Hun" achievement path out, staying as starting culture "Saka" in Mohadavasaka (northwestern India province) but purposely changing from starting religion Hindu to one of the more likely religions for the White Huns of that time - Buddhist (which at the time of CK2 era the White Huns would have been more toward Buddhist or Nestorian Christian, a long story in itself "why" but not trying to derail thread). My quick summary on that account would be - Dev's should have changed starting religion to Buddhist for the single White Hun (Saka) county of Mohadavasaka (or Nestorian...but not Hindu).

So, I am very diligent in my playthrough to maintain Saka culture, Buddhism, proselytizing like crazy, always having Steward focus on the inward improvements that also bring better chances of Culture conversion. Micro-managing all marriages, training of children, forcing their education to "Heritage" to keep on Saka track and Buddhist as necessary, on and on, so the Dynasty's majority as it plays out, remains Saka culture and Buddhist religion.

Sigh...And then I start seeing these silly "Death Cults" that pop up here and there, sapping away enormous levels of income from multi-Temple counties (because as a Buddhist my leaders are typically in the Society for Buddhism and they often expect one to build Temples on all open squares of land). Here's what the Wiki stated from a Patch from long ago:

• Indian temple corruption and local death cults are now immediately removed if province owner is of a non*Indian religion.

Here's my problem with that - I'm Saka, not Indian, and Buddhism is not exclusively an "Indian" religion. Did this Death Cult issue ever get updated/patched later and fixed??? Apparently, I'm stuck with no way of removing these Death Cults from sapping much-needed money to fuel the expansion required to more effectively fight toward obtaining all the many Kingdoms (6x total) that result in the White Hun achievement. I have all DLCs running, and the Dragon/China related gameplay can make this very difficult also if the Western Protectorate gets too big, too soon (as it has done in my going play-throughs so far).

But the Death Cult doesn't seem to have a solution for me as an "Iranian" type of culture in Saka (which is arguable also, btw, as true White Huns north of Afghanistan were using Greek language letters but formed words in local dialects, and some scholars believe the real White Huns were of Greek descent from Alexander the Great's time that never went back to Greece, and a melting pot of Mongolians as well, so it was a more "white" caucasian/asian fusion of sorts. If anything, Saka is actually wrong and should be replaced with its own unique culture name of "Hephthalite" instead, to name the culture for the former empire they built and dominated with in the era prior to CK2's timeline. You will also see real historic references across both academia and wiki that argue that there were 2x separate groups labeled as 'White Hun" and the group that went east to northern India is actually not the Hephthalite variety but an offshoot from Afghanistan that settled there, with the real Hephthalites moving more toward Buddhism and Nestorian beliefs, perhaps that split their Empire, and they dissolved away as most Nestorian believing Hephthalites migrated away to be with other Christians.

Okay, I say all this not to ramble, but to show a point - Death Cults make no sense for a Saka cultured, Buddhist population that just happens to be in northern India. There's already the reduced "Foreigner" perspective of all non-Iranian cultures in that entire region of northern India, so you don't get a favorable starting position. But Death Cults - why? And why not enable them to be removed just like a Bandit or Thieves Guild gets removed in the game? It seems like the Dev's offered this "out" to remove Death Cults for the external forces to come in, like the Swedish invasion of India (that there's an achievement for...) or earlier than historically correct invasion of India from England, or wherever - so you bring in Christianity and your Anglo-Saxon ways, and then the Death Cults go poof.

So...why can't my near-Greek, mislabeled Iranian Saka dudes get rid of Death Cults also? Regardless if they are Buddhist? As a reminder, these Hephthalite empire remainders, the White Huns -- this is the empire that built the giant Buddha statues in Bamian, Afghanistan, that were blown up by the Taliban. They didn't have any evidence of Death Cult tendencies, Devil Worship, etc., and appear to have been very astute culturally speaking, and did have cities that supported them while riding out and raiding as if Huns, effectively, for many centuries as they dominated everything around themselves.

Interested in hearing if there is by chance "a way" to get rid of the Death Cults infesting my non-Indian territory (that is fully Saka Culture, Buddhist converted counties yet still retain Death Cults...).

 

[jonjowett]

So, you need to make a distinction between Indian religion (Buddhist, Hindu, Jain) and Indian culture (Indo-Aryan, Dravidian). The different ways of getting rid of death cults are split by religion, not culture.

If you follow an Indian religion (and you do, because you are Buddhist) then you need to get RoI.3516 to fire:

Spoiler: ...\events\roi_various_events.txt

# Local death cult removed - Indian
character_event = {
    id = RoI.3516

    hide_window = yes

    religion_group = indian_group

    is_triggered_only = yes

    trigger = {
        religion_authority = 0.5
        any_demesne_province = {
            religion = ROOT
            has_province_modifier = local_death_cult
        }
    }

    immediate = {
        random_demesne_province = {
            limit = {
                religion = ROOT
                has_province_modifier = local_death_cult
            }
            province_event = { id = RoI.3517 }
        }
    }
}

Specifically:

• Count must follow an Indian religion
• Count's religion must have at least 50% religious authority
• County must follow the same religion as the count (ie. convert the county or appoint a count with the correct religion)

Then, you need to wait for this event to be randomly chosen on the yearly pulse for that count. (There are a LOT of possible random events on the yearly pulse, so don't hold your breath.)

When the event fires, the death cult modifier will be removed from ONE county in the count's demesne. If the count has more than one province with the modifier then you need to wait for it to fire again.

If you want to maximise the chance of getting rid of the death cults:

• Ensure the count's religion matches that of the county
• Ensure that the count has exactly one county
• Try to ensure that the count doesn't have any other "interesting" options in their yearly pulse (eg. appoint lowborns with no dynasty or family) - but this is hard because most characters will develop over the years

---

Alternatively, give the province to a sacrificial character of non-Indian religion. Wait for him to clear the death cult (which should be near-instant, because it's an event with MTTH 1 day). Revoke the county or assassinate him. Give the county to the person you want to have it long-term.

Spoiler: ...\events\roi_various_events.txt

# Local death cult removed - non-Indian
province_event = {
    id = RoI.3551

    hide_window = yes
    
    trigger = {
        has_province_modifier = local_death_cult
        owner = {
            NOT = { religion_group = indian_group }
        }
    }
    
    mean_time_to_happen = {
        days = 1
    }

    immediate = {
        remove_province_modifier = local_death_cult
    }
}

 

[mattrhearn]

Death cults make total sense anywhere Buddhism is practiced. To really oversimplify things the whole "goal" of Buddhism is to die and not be reincarnated - not existing at all is the ideal. And while most Buddhist practices do more productive things with this idea there have, in every culture to practice Buddhism (or Hinduism or Jainism), always been groups who work towards it in a way that make them by definition death cults. Most recently/famously/violently you see it in Aum Shinrikyo in Japan, which got Buddhism from China which got it from Central Asia (including many in the cultural group you're playing) which got it from India.

 

[Nuclear Elvis]

@jonjowett - thanks for the detailed reply, as I really appreciate getting the more in depth explanation and actual coding involved. I knew it was a religious and not cultural thing, but the culture discussion is a bit ironic and let me explain --
Buddhism origins have some twists and turns related to this discussion, as Buddhism was NOT Indian in origin. This historical theory is controversial to some, but all facts point toward Gautama Buddha as a "Shakya" also known as "Saka" and historians would say - Shakya were of Scythian origin (you can google Shakya to see the many theories on their origin, which are now mostly agreed to be Scythian), and the Shakya were a totally separate people with different linguistics and a culture of their own, that moved into the Northern India area, and then assimilated into greater India over time. The Indians of that time wrote about the Shakya as if they were rude intruders who didn't speak the same language, who did not honor/respect Indian culture, etc. -- all clear signs that Shakya were not of Indian origin. This is, in fact, the irony of playing a "White Hun" in Northern India in CK2, as a "Saka" culture people. Now you see further why I say - Paradox made a mistake by starting the Saka people in Northern India as Hindu. They are literally the exact bloodline people that Gautama Buddha himself came from. However, it is also of doubt that Saka were ever Hephthalite, as they appear to be two separate "white" or Aryan types that get mixed up with each other. Not worried about solving it all, but it does make for interesting discussion.

Death Cults? Hmm, seems Paradox over plays that in many of their games. Death Cults are in Stellaris also. Someone at Paradox have a Death Cult fetish? Regardless, I don't agree with the way it's removed, as I would see it just like the Thieves Guild or any other nuisance presence/effect on a County. I'm surprised the Dev's did not give more options as to How/Why the Death Cults are removed. With all the many options that a player has, to include paying money to help assassinate someone, you'd think we could at least get some random events that enable paying off someone to make the Death Cults go away! Regardless, I do take your recommendations to heart, and will attempt to eradicate the Death Cults. Hey, I just had an idea, wouldn't the leader simply invite all the Death Cult members to an "event" where they all drink Kool-Aid and...you know...achieve their goals?

 

[DPS]

@jonjowett - thanks for the detailed reply, as I really appreciate getting the more in depth explanation and actual coding involved. I knew it was a religious and not cultural thing, but the culture discussion is a bit ironic and let me explain --
Buddhism origins have some twists and turns related to this discussion, as Buddhism was NOT Indian in origin. This historical theory is controversial to some, but all facts point toward Gautama Buddha as a "Shakya" also known as "Saka" and historians would say - Shakya were of Scythian origin (you can google Shakya to see the many theories on their origin, which are now mostly agreed to be Scythian), and the Shakya were a totally separate people with different linguistics and a culture of their own, that moved into the Northern India area, and then assimilated into greater India over time. The Indians of that time wrote about the Shakya as if they were rude intruders who didn't speak the same language, who did not honor/respect Indian culture, etc. -- all clear signs that Shakya were not of Indian origin. This is, in fact, the irony of playing a "White Hun" in Northern India in CK2, as a "Saka" culture people. Now you see further why I say - Paradox made a mistake by starting the Saka people in Northern India as Hindu. They are literally the exact bloodline people that Gautama Buddha himself came from. However, it is also of doubt that Saka were ever Hephthalite, as they appear to be two separate "white" or Aryan types that get mixed up with each other. Not worried about solving it all, but it does make for interesting discussion.

You could say the same thing about Hinduism itself--all of the Indo-aryan peoples of India have their origins in groups who moved into India from somewhere else, mostly via Afghanistan or Persia.

 

[mattrhearn]

You could say the same thing about Hinduism itself--all of the Indo-aryan peoples of India have their origins in groups who moved into India from somewhere else, mostly via Afghanistan or Persia.

Yes, the Vedas themselves were first recited in Central Asia, not India.