Dear Undead Platypi, (constructive criticism to improve Empire of Sin)

[Xavori]

I'm not totally disappointed with Empire of Sin, but not really thrilled either. As a long time fanboi of the undead platypi grand strategy games, tho, this is a worrying trend in terms of the quality of games y'all are putting out.

That said, this game has potential enough that I feel with some good constructive criticisms, it can be made into a very good game. Lots of bullet points to follow

-- Why the frak does it have different controls than every other Paradox (and honestly, most games in general)? After tens of thousands (No. That is not hyperbole.) of playing Paradox grand strategy games I fully expected to be able to hit spacebar to pause the game. Nope. That's not the default. Thankfully, at least that can be changed so now I can do that. Why isn't the middle mouse button mapped to camera rotation like, I don't know, every other frakkin' 3D game worth playing at this point.

-- Starting a speakeasy as a gangster was hard. Starting a protection racket, on the other hand, just required a couple tough guy friends and finding a neighborhood nobody else was in. Yet, guess what we can't do? Protection rackets, not speakeasies, were the foundation of the mafia (both in the real world and the romanticized versions) because of that. In fact, none of the street crime elements are available. No girls on the corners. No hustlers running numbers in bars. No warehouse break ins. Nothing but generic tycoon game building businesses reskinned with mob-ish names. And you spent how long copying Monopoly Tycoon to come up with this part of the game?

-- The AI is at its best bad and at its worst annoying. No. I do not want to fight 30 fights in a row of 3 random gangsters attacking my 2 random guards. I never want to do that. NEVER. But I don't have a choice because if I don't at least wound the guys outside, they'll steamroll right in and take my businesses, right? It's not like those fights are any fun at all. They are nothing but dice rolls. If you get lucky with your guys, you'll win. If not, you'll lose. That's not fun. That's something you put up with to get to the fun, and yet, Empire of Sin essentially turns that into the bulk of the gang war fighting.

-- Speaking of game wars, stop me if you've heard anyone mention skipping them and just going straight for the AI safehouse. Wanna guess why? It's the shortest path to the cheese, and also, it's the only way to avoid that previous comment about fighting boring generic fights over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over. Of course, if it was a real safe house, it'd be nearly unassailable and the boss would have an escape route. I mean, Al Capone didn't die in a hail of bullets, and it's not because nobody ever though of trying to give him that death. It's because he wasn't stupid enough to put himself in a position where just a handful of guys could trap him in a building with nothing but a handful of guards between him and said hail of bullets. Boss fights should be the end of a war, not the easy way to win them. So while you're fixing being stuck fighting generic fight over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over..., could you maybe teach the AI to put escape routes in their safehouses and tell the bosses to run if things are going badly in the fight. Then, give us more options when setting up those fights such as stationing groups at known entrances, using moles to ferret out any mouse holes the rat might scurry out or any stashes of extra weapons and gear they have squirreled away (I was totally going to keep going with more rodents, but this point is already getting long enough).

-- Diplomacy needs totally reworked. It's pointless now. We should be able to set up deals that grow into partnerships. Instead, we're stuck with a shallow, seemingly tacked on after the fact diplo system that makes the first EU look inspired (sorry, but I really hated EU 1's diplomacy way way WAY long time ago). It should be possible to make deals setting up territory, distribution, etc. This would be especially useful for things like protection rackets so the two 'allies' don't try shaking down the same businesses.

-- Getting back to the UI I mentioned at the beginning. Why exactly can I not set production at the brewer itself? Why can I not set what alcohol gets served where? Why is an entire neighborhood considered one economic level rather than the far more realistic good, bad, and mediocre gin joints you'd expect to have? Why is the sky blue? Why is grass green? Seriously, these are obvious things in a tycoon game that has actual depth to it.

-- Dear skeletal egg laying mammals, why does my boss have to do everything themselves? Sure, at the start of my little criminal enterprise, I need to be physically present at everything. But once I have a decent little turf carved out, I kinda should be able to simply give orders to my lieutenants (speaking of which, I should have more of those and they aren't for running safehouses) and they carry them out. I should be moving from the tactical to the strategic. But still let me fight tactical fights using my guys as long as they're not the generic goons vs generic goons that we have to fight over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over...

-- Did y'all hire the animators who made Mass Effect: Andomeda such a smashing failure at release? Seriously. There are kids in preschool putting out better animations. The fact you're using any default engine animations at all is a failure on your part. Admittedly, this point is this far down the list because animation isn't a high priority in a tycoon/tactical game, but c'mon. It's so bad it's distracting. And I'm not even going to get into the voice "acting" that y'all obviously didn't care about.

Now, this might have seemed pretty negative, because it was. This is not a game I'd have expected from Paradox a few years ago (although after Imperator Rome....). It's so painfully obviously not done, and the parts that were done are shallow and rushed-feeling. That said, it can be salvaged which is why I bothered to take the time to make this post.

p.s. If this is what Vampire: Bloodlines 2 is currently like, please delay it. I mean, Cyberpunk 2077 is coming out next week so it's not like I need another new game right away. I've had Vtm:B2 pre-ordered forever because I was such a huge fan of the original so I'm okay with y'all taking time to get it right.

 

[Eber]

I'm not totally disappointed with Empire of Sin, but not really thrilled either. As a long time fanboi of the undead platypi grand strategy games, tho, this is a worrying trend in terms of the quality of games y'all are putting out.

That said, this game has potential enough that I feel with some good constructive criticisms, it can be made into a very good game. Lots of bullet points to follow

-- Why the frak does it have different controls than every other Paradox (and honestly, most games in general)? After tens of thousands (No. That is not hyperbole.) of playing Paradox grand strategy games I fully expected to be able to hit spacebar to pause the game. Nope. That's not the default. Thankfully, at least that can be changed so now I can do that. Why isn't the middle mouse button mapped to camera rotation like, I don't know, every other frakkin' 3D game worth playing at this point.

-- Starting a speakeasy as a gangster was hard. Starting a protection racket, on the other hand, just required a couple tough guy friends and finding a neighborhood nobody else was in. Yet, guess what we can't do? Protection rackets, not speakeasies, were the foundation of the mafia (both in the real world and the romanticized versions) because of that. In fact, none of the street crime elements are available. No girls on the corners. No hustlers running numbers in bars. No warehouse break ins. Nothing but generic tycoon game building businesses reskinned with mob-ish names. And you spent how long copying Monopoly Tycoon to come up with this part of the game?

-- The AI is at its best bad and at its worst annoying. No. I do not want to fight 30 fights in a row of 3 random gangsters attacking my 2 random guards. I never want to do that. NEVER. But I don't have a choice because if I don't at least wound the guys outside, they'll steamroll right in and take my businesses, right? It's not like those fights are any fun at all. They are nothing but dice rolls. If you get lucky with your guys, you'll win. If not, you'll lose. That's not fun. That's something you put up with to get to the fun, and yet, Empire of Sin essentially turns that into the bulk of the gang war fighting.

-- Speaking of game wars, stop me if you've heard anyone mention skipping them and just going straight for the AI safehouse. Wanna guess why? It's the shortest path to the cheese, and also, it's the only way to avoid that previous comment about fighting boring generic fights over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over. Of course, if it was a real safe house, it'd be nearly unassailable and the boss would have an escape route. I mean, Al Capone didn't die in a hail of bullets, and it's not because nobody ever though of trying to give him that death. It's because he wasn't stupid enough to put himself in a position where just a handful of guys could trap him in a building with nothing but a handful of guards between him and said hail of bullets. Boss fights should be the end of a war, not the easy way to win them. So while you're fixing being stuck fighting generic fight over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over..., could you maybe teach the AI to put escape routes in their safehouses and tell the bosses to run if things are going badly in the fight. Then, give us more options when setting up those fights such as stationing groups at known entrances, using moles to ferret out any mouse holes the rat might scurry out or any stashes of extra weapons and gear they have squirreled away (I was totally going to keep going with more rodents, but this point is already getting long enough).

-- Diplomacy needs totally reworked. It's pointless now. We should be able to set up deals that grow into partnerships. Instead, we're stuck with a shallow, seemingly tacked on after the fact diplo system that makes the first EU look inspired (sorry, but I really hated EU 1's diplomacy way way WAY long time ago). It should be possible to make deals setting up territory, distribution, etc. This would be especially useful for things like protection rackets so the two 'allies' don't try shaking down the same businesses.

-- Getting back to the UI I mentioned at the beginning. Why exactly can I not set production at the brewer itself? Why can I not set what alcohol gets served where? Why is an entire neighborhood considered one economic level rather than the far more realistic good, bad, and mediocre gin joints you'd expect to have? Why is the sky blue? Why is grass green? Seriously, these are obvious things in a tycoon game that has actual depth to it.

-- Dear skeletal egg laying mammals, why does my boss have to do everything themselves? Sure, at the start of my little criminal enterprise, I need to be physically present at everything. But once I have a decent little turf carved out, I kinda should be able to simply give orders to my lieutenants (speaking of which, I should have more of those and they aren't for running safehouses) and they carry them out. I should be moving from the tactical to the strategic. But still let me fight tactical fights using my guys as long as they're not the generic goons vs generic goons that we have to fight over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over...

-- Did y'all hire the animators who made Mass Effect: Andomeda such a smashing failure at release? Seriously. There are kids in preschool putting out better animations. The fact you're using any default engine animations at all is a failure on your part. Admittedly, this point is this far down the list because animation isn't a high priority in a tycoon/tactical game, but c'mon. It's so bad it's distracting. And I'm not even going to get into the voice "acting" that y'all obviously didn't care about.

Now, this might have seemed pretty negative, because it was. This is not a game I'd have expected from Paradox a few years ago (although after Imperator Rome....). It's so painfully obviously not done, and the parts that were done are shallow and rushed-feeling. That said, it can be salvaged which is why I bothered to take the time to make this post.

p.s. If this is what Vampire: Bloodlines 2 is currently like, please delay it. I mean, Cyberpunk 2077 is coming out next week so it's not like I need another new game right away. I've had Vtm:B2 pre-ordered forever because I was such a huge fan of the original so I'm okay with y'all taking time to get it right.

So I agree with you on many of your points, but did have a few thoughts.

- Controls are different because it's a Romero Games development, not Paradox. Paradox is only the publisher. So it makes sense that space bar and other controls you're used to in Paradox games (like EU4, CK3, HOI) would not be in this game. But you do have a point on the camera control.

- I agree with the illegal businesses. I know they originally had protection rackets as an actual business but then changed it to the current way. I think it was a mistake. We also do need more illegal businesses. It does seem very tycoon like with a mob reskin.

- AI will improve with patches I believe. Not too worried about that. However, I do agree with combat and AI fights are incredibly repetitive. You're not the only one to mention the quick safehouse defeat so you don't get into a long slog of repetitive combat. It definitely needs to be worked on, and new ways to defeat your enemy. It is also worth pointing out that we should be able to hire goons like the AI does for menial tasks (patrol, bodyguard).

- I agree with diplomacy but I think that system will be fleshed out with DLCs honestly. At least, that's what I think will happen. It makes the most sense.

- More strategic elements, especially in combat would be useful. It is very tactical as you said. Auto-resolve would also be useful. And as I said before, the AI just throws goons at us while we can only fight with pricy gangsters.

- Lastly, I do want to reiterate that this is not a Paradox development. Also VTM: Bloodlines 2 is also not a Paradox development. They are only publishing both titles, so they only have so much control. Expectations and comparisons to their developed titles must be tempered to an extent.

 

[Xavori]

@Eber

It might not be a Paradox development, but they are the name everyone is going to see. What's more, so many of these mistakes and shallow gameplay bits are painfully obvious. Given how long this game was in development, I have no idea how it doesn't have more depth.

And relying on DLC to make a game good is a terribad idea. A game should be good and made better (see: CK2 for the absolute best example) via DLC. If ever Paradox truly goes all EA (I'm old enough to remember when EA made great games), I'll be terribly disappointed. I'm okay with DLC, but not if it's fixing things that should have been in the game originally.

Oh, and V:tM. Paradox owns the entire World of Darkness IP. I'm kinda hoping that means they take it very seriously instead of releasing a half-baked game like Empire of Sin.

 

[billcorr]

So it makes sense that space bar and other controls you're used to in Paradox games (like EU4, CK3, HOI) would not be in this game.

Hmm...point taken.

But a counter-counter-point might be:

"When in Paradox, do as the Paradoxians do"

(I'm assuming that gamers are different from the general population in that gamers more so appreciate sameness and predictability, more than the general population. Switching up the Paradox keyboard introduces the necessity to relearn one's Paradoxian muscle memory. )

 

[Zhuljin]

I'm not totally disappointed with Empire of Sin, but not really thrilled either. As a long time fanboi of the undead platypi grand strategy games, tho, this is a worrying trend in terms of the quality of games y'all are putting out.

That said, this game has potential enough that I feel with some good constructive criticisms, it can be made into a very good game. Lots of bullet points to follow

-- Why the frak does it have different controls than every other Paradox (and honestly, most games in general)? After tens of thousands (No. That is not hyperbole.) of playing Paradox grand strategy games I fully expected to be able to hit spacebar to pause the game. Nope. That's not the default. Thankfully, at least that can be changed so now I can do that. Why isn't the middle mouse button mapped to camera rotation like, I don't know, every other frakkin' 3D game worth playing at this point.

-- Starting a speakeasy as a gangster was hard. Starting a protection racket, on the other hand, just required a couple tough guy friends and finding a neighborhood nobody else was in. Yet, guess what we can't do? Protection rackets, not speakeasies, were the foundation of the mafia (both in the real world and the romanticized versions) because of that. In fact, none of the street crime elements are available. No girls on the corners. No hustlers running numbers in bars. No warehouse break ins. Nothing but generic tycoon game building businesses reskinned with mob-ish names. And you spent how long copying Monopoly Tycoon to come up with this part of the game?

-- The AI is at its best bad and at its worst annoying. No. I do not want to fight 30 fights in a row of 3 random gangsters attacking my 2 random guards. I never want to do that. NEVER. But I don't have a choice because if I don't at least wound the guys outside, they'll steamroll right in and take my businesses, right? It's not like those fights are any fun at all. They are nothing but dice rolls. If you get lucky with your guys, you'll win. If not, you'll lose. That's not fun. That's something you put up with to get to the fun, and yet, Empire of Sin essentially turns that into the bulk of the gang war fighting.

-- Speaking of game wars, stop me if you've heard anyone mention skipping them and just going straight for the AI safehouse. Wanna guess why? It's the shortest path to the cheese, and also, it's the only way to avoid that previous comment about fighting boring generic fights over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over. Of course, if it was a real safe house, it'd be nearly unassailable and the boss would have an escape route. I mean, Al Capone didn't die in a hail of bullets, and it's not because nobody ever though of trying to give him that death. It's because he wasn't stupid enough to put himself in a position where just a handful of guys could trap him in a building with nothing but a handful of guards between him and said hail of bullets. Boss fights should be the end of a war, not the easy way to win them. So while you're fixing being stuck fighting generic fight over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over..., could you maybe teach the AI to put escape routes in their safehouses and tell the bosses to run if things are going badly in the fight. Then, give us more options when setting up those fights such as stationing groups at known entrances, using moles to ferret out any mouse holes the rat might scurry out or any stashes of extra weapons and gear they have squirreled away (I was totally going to keep going with more rodents, but this point is already getting long enough).

-- Diplomacy needs totally reworked. It's pointless now. We should be able to set up deals that grow into partnerships. Instead, we're stuck with a shallow, seemingly tacked on after the fact diplo system that makes the first EU look inspired (sorry, but I really hated EU 1's diplomacy way way WAY long time ago). It should be possible to make deals setting up territory, distribution, etc. This would be especially useful for things like protection rackets so the two 'allies' don't try shaking down the same businesses.

-- Getting back to the UI I mentioned at the beginning. Why exactly can I not set production at the brewer itself? Why can I not set what alcohol gets served where? Why is an entire neighborhood considered one economic level rather than the far more realistic good, bad, and mediocre gin joints you'd expect to have? Why is the sky blue? Why is grass green? Seriously, these are obvious things in a tycoon game that has actual depth to it.

-- Dear skeletal egg laying mammals, why does my boss have to do everything themselves? Sure, at the start of my little criminal enterprise, I need to be physically present at everything. But once I have a decent little turf carved out, I kinda should be able to simply give orders to my lieutenants (speaking of which, I should have more of those and they aren't for running safehouses) and they carry them out. I should be moving from the tactical to the strategic. But still let me fight tactical fights using my guys as long as they're not the generic goons vs generic goons that we have to fight over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over...

-- Did y'all hire the animators who made Mass Effect: Andomeda such a smashing failure at release? Seriously. There are kids in preschool putting out better animations. The fact you're using any default engine animations at all is a failure on your part. Admittedly, this point is this far down the list because animation isn't a high priority in a tycoon/tactical game, but c'mon. It's so bad it's distracting. And I'm not even going to get into the voice "acting" that y'all obviously didn't care about.

Now, this might have seemed pretty negative, because it was. This is not a game I'd have expected from Paradox a few years ago (although after Imperator Rome....). It's so painfully obviously not done, and the parts that were done are shallow and rushed-feeling. That said, it can be salvaged which is why I bothered to take the time to make this post.

p.s. If this is what Vampire: Bloodlines 2 is currently like, please delay it. I mean, Cyberpunk 2077 is coming out next week so it's not like I need another new game right away. I've had Vtm:B2 pre-ordered forever because I was such a huge fan of the original so I'm okay with y'all taking time to get it right.

Great ideas i hope the devs listen to this!

 

[Xavori]

Welp. Scratch constructive feedback. This is a garbage release, and a huge stain on Paradox's reputation for letting a dev get away with this buggy mess.

The game has showstopping bugs. After the quest One For Me and Brew For You, the breweries don't reopen. Worse, no quests I did after that would update after the first step. For example, go talk to Jacques as part of the Whack a Mole quest, and it never moves beyond telling you to go talk to Jacques. Heck, even the quest to help the guy get his stolen wallet back that I'd ignored until I wanted to test quest updating didn't update even though I got the reward for completing it, and funnily enough, every fight I had after that gave me another stolen wallet.

At least until I went to reload my save games which now cannot be loaded. So I cannot finish that campaign.

Basically, it's a shallow, cheap looking game that doesn't even work.

For shame, Paradox. For shame.

 

[Corleonesi]

I'm not totally disappointed with Empire of Sin, but not really thrilled either. As a long time fanboi of the undead platypi grand strategy games, tho, this is a worrying trend in terms of the quality of games y'all are putting out.

That said, this game has potential enough that I feel with some good constructive criticisms, it can be made into a very good game. Lots of bullet points to follow

-- Why the frak does it have different controls than every other Paradox (and honestly, most games in general)? After tens of thousands (No. That is not hyperbole.) of playing Paradox grand strategy games I fully expected to be able to hit spacebar to pause the game. Nope. That's not the default. Thankfully, at least that can be changed so now I can do that. Why isn't the middle mouse button mapped to camera rotation like, I don't know, every other frakkin' 3D game worth playing at this point.

-- Starting a speakeasy as a gangster was hard. Starting a protection racket, on the other hand, just required a couple tough guy friends and finding a neighborhood nobody else was in. Yet, guess what we can't do? Protection rackets, not speakeasies, were the foundation of the mafia (both in the real world and the romanticized versions) because of that. In fact, none of the street crime elements are available. No girls on the corners. No hustlers running numbers in bars. No warehouse break ins. Nothing but generic tycoon game building businesses reskinned with mob-ish names. And you spent how long copying Monopoly Tycoon to come up with this part of the game?

-- The AI is at its best bad and at its worst annoying. No. I do not want to fight 30 fights in a row of 3 random gangsters attacking my 2 random guards. I never want to do that. NEVER. But I don't have a choice because if I don't at least wound the guys outside, they'll steamroll right in and take my businesses, right? It's not like those fights are any fun at all. They are nothing but dice rolls. If you get lucky with your guys, you'll win. If not, you'll lose. That's not fun. That's something you put up with to get to the fun, and yet, Empire of Sin essentially turns that into the bulk of the gang war fighting.

-- Speaking of game wars, stop me if you've heard anyone mention skipping them and just going straight for the AI safehouse. Wanna guess why? It's the shortest path to the cheese, and also, it's the only way to avoid that previous comment about fighting boring generic fights over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over. Of course, if it was a real safe house, it'd be nearly unassailable and the boss would have an escape route. I mean, Al Capone didn't die in a hail of bullets, and it's not because nobody ever though of trying to give him that death. It's because he wasn't stupid enough to put himself in a position where just a handful of guys could trap him in a building with nothing but a handful of guards between him and said hail of bullets. Boss fights should be the end of a war, not the easy way to win them. So while you're fixing being stuck fighting generic fight over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over..., could you maybe teach the AI to put escape routes in their safehouses and tell the bosses to run if things are going badly in the fight. Then, give us more options when setting up those fights such as stationing groups at known entrances, using moles to ferret out any mouse holes the rat might scurry out or any stashes of extra weapons and gear they have squirreled away (I was totally going to keep going with more rodents, but this point is already getting long enough).

-- Diplomacy needs totally reworked. It's pointless now. We should be able to set up deals that grow into partnerships. Instead, we're stuck with a shallow, seemingly tacked on after the fact diplo system that makes the first EU look inspired (sorry, but I really hated EU 1's diplomacy way way WAY long time ago). It should be possible to make deals setting up territory, distribution, etc. This would be especially useful for things like protection rackets so the two 'allies' don't try shaking down the same businesses.

-- Getting back to the UI I mentioned at the beginning. Why exactly can I not set production at the brewer itself? Why can I not set what alcohol gets served where? Why is an entire neighborhood considered one economic level rather than the far more realistic good, bad, and mediocre gin joints you'd expect to have? Why is the sky blue? Why is grass green? Seriously, these are obvious things in a tycoon game that has actual depth to it.

-- Dear skeletal egg laying mammals, why does my boss have to do everything themselves? Sure, at the start of my little criminal enterprise, I need to be physically present at everything. But once I have a decent little turf carved out, I kinda should be able to simply give orders to my lieutenants (speaking of which, I should have more of those and they aren't for running safehouses) and they carry them out. I should be moving from the tactical to the strategic. But still let me fight tactical fights using my guys as long as they're not the generic goons vs generic goons that we have to fight over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over...

-- Did y'all hire the animators who made Mass Effect: Andomeda such a smashing failure at release? Seriously. There are kids in preschool putting out better animations. The fact you're using any default engine animations at all is a failure on your part. Admittedly, this point is this far down the list because animation isn't a high priority in a tycoon/tactical game, but c'mon. It's so bad it's distracting. And I'm not even going to get into the voice "acting" that y'all obviously didn't care about.

Now, this might have seemed pretty negative, because it was. This is not a game I'd have expected from Paradox a few years ago (although after Imperator Rome....). It's so painfully obviously not done, and the parts that were done are shallow and rushed-feeling. That said, it can be salvaged which is why I bothered to take the time to make this post.

p.s. If this is what Vampire: Bloodlines 2 is currently like, please delay it. I mean, Cyberpunk 2077 is coming out next week so it's not like I need another new game right away. I've had Vtm:B2 pre-ordered forever because I was such a huge fan of the original so I'm okay with y'all taking time to get it right.

Both romero and paradox knew about the bugs, but for economic reasons the money spent on development must return. Simply, the money spent on development on 1 December returned. Now with our money in hand they put the game right, and decide the future of the game. Imagine an investor who gives you the money to develop an endless game and the day of the sale takes less than half the investment ...! basically paradox took the development money, without risking developing again and again with little sales. Since December 1st, with money in her pocket, she is calmer for the future ... and she says: yes, the game went well, so we are still investing in development, no, the game has sold little ... little investment for the future .

 

[Xavori]

Both romero and paradox knew about the bugs, but for economic reasons the money spent on development must return. Simply, the money spent on development on 1 December returned. Now with our money in hand they put the game right, and decide the future of the game. Imagine an investor who gives you the money to develop an endless game and the day of the sale takes less than half the investment ...! basically paradox took the development money, without risking developing again and again with little sales. Since December 1st, with money in her pocket, she is calmer for the future ... and she says: yes, the game went well, so we are still investing in development, no, the game has sold little ... little investment for the future .

So your argument is that it's okay to release a known broken product on consumers?

Remind me to never, ever buy anything from you.

There isn't just one or two showstoppers. There are a great many of them. So far:

- I've had my quests stop updating. All of them. Happened after One for me and Brew for You completed.
-I've had all my breweries shut down and be unable to reopen short of selling them and rebuilding all the upgrades.
-I've had NPC guards spawn outside the building (in the black area) making it impossible to kill them and impossible for them to kill me resulting in a combat that could not end.
-I've had the game stop letting me go inside buildings, buy buildings, or attack buildings.
-I've had the game just crash to desktop during a fight.
-I've had my save files become unable to be loaded.

Beyond that, the game has zero strategic depth. It's a bad tycoon game reskinned into mobsters paired with a very shallow tactical game that ultimately becomes meaninglessly easy even at the hardest difficulty. And it's from a publisher that I used to trust implicitly that has now had a couple major flop releases moving them into nope, don't trust anymore category. If VtM:B2 is bad, it'll likely be the last time I buy anything from Paradox despite all those badges you see under my name.

And no, that's not an empty threat. I don't buy anything from several game publishers at this point, and not surprisingly, I still seem to find a game or two a month that I really enjoy.

 

[Corleonesi]

So your argument is that it's okay to release a known broken product on consumers?

Remind me to never, ever buy anything from you.

There isn't just one or two showstoppers. There are a great many of them. So far:

- I've had my quests stop updating. All of them. Happened after One for me and Brew for You completed.
-I've had all my breweries shut down and be unable to reopen short of selling them and rebuilding all the upgrades.
-I've had NPC guards spawn outside the building (in the black area) making it impossible to kill them and impossible for them to kill me resulting in a combat that could not end.
-I've had the game stop letting me go inside buildings, buy buildings, or attack buildings.
-I've had the game just crash to desktop during a fight.
-I've had my save files become unable to be loaded.

Beyond that, the game has zero strategic depth. It's a bad tycoon game reskinned into mobsters paired with a very shallow tactical game that ultimately becomes meaninglessly easy even at the hardest difficulty. And it's from a publisher that I used to trust implicitly that has now had a couple major flop releases moving them into nope, don't trust anymore category. If VtM:B2 is bad, it'll likely be the last time I buy anything from Paradox despite all those badges you see under my name.

And no, that's not an empty threat. I don't buy anything from several game publishers at this point, and not surprisingly, I still seem to find a game or two a month that I really enjoy.

I never buy paradox games on the first day.

If the policy is to release games ... afterwards we fix them, that's not good. Or, at least it may happen once, now it is happening often.

people buy now, so they know they can fool us.

If at D1 people boycott, everything returns to the way it was before, and how it should have been.