Base cost for my current repeatable tech = 6000
Penalty per pop = 1% of base = 60
Max research points a pop can produce = 10*
*scales to around 13/14 with bonuses - excluding native tile bonuses
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Contrast this with early game tech scenario:
Base cost for early-game tech = 360
Penalty per pop = 1% of base = 3.6
I've excluded the planet penalty and orbital stations for simplicity ...the ultimate conclusion remains the same:
At some point, base research cost gets so high that the 1 % pop penalty (and 10% planet penalty) cannot be countered
The reason:
You've got a constant (max research per tile) chasing a positive linear variable (base research cost for repeatable techs).
I know the tall-vs-wide acolytes will argue that a huge empire should suffer such penalties but hear me out. Stellaris isn't a tall-compatible game. Tall will never protect you from the sheer size of enemy federations, FEs and end-game crises. A huge empire should be able to expand while preserving (and even improving research time).
Does anyone have any ideas on how to fix this via modding?
----
UPDATE: following responses by folk way smarter than me in the thread, my analysis was somewhat flawed. Yes, the extra penalty per pop does exceed the research that pop generates. BUT, that still decreases the Empire average research time of techs
Using my first example of that 6000 base cost tech:
Extra penalty of 60
divided by
extra research per pop of 10
= 6 (months),
which is still a LOT lower than the "pre-extra pop" average research time (+60 months in my current game)
So what's the optimum research per planet and pop penalty? I define optimum as anything that allows me to complete a repeatable tech in less than 60 months (that's comfortably way ahead of what the AI can achieve).
Repeatable tech base cost = let's just say 4000, it varies, this is a conservative estimate
Each extra pop adds a 67 penalty (assuming average planet size of 15 ...FYI, that number decreases the higher your average planet size ...to a max of 56)
So at 67 penalty per pop, for every 10 pops (670 penalty) you'd need ~11 in pop-generated research to stay at 60 months.
So unless you're in repeatable-tech-only end-game purgatory, 3 labs per planet of 15 (producing 30 research total) is golden (i.e. more than enough to beat the AI)
And by the time that base cost is 8000 however, you need around 19 research generation per 10 pops.
In conclusion, I was wrong, the research penalty is just fine
Penalty per pop = 1% of base = 60
Max research points a pop can produce = 10*
*scales to around 13/14 with bonuses - excluding native tile bonuses
-----
Contrast this with early game tech scenario:
Base cost for early-game tech = 360
Penalty per pop = 1% of base = 3.6
I've excluded the planet penalty and orbital stations for simplicity ...the ultimate conclusion remains the same:
At some point, base research cost gets so high that the 1 % pop penalty (and 10% planet penalty) cannot be countered
You've got a constant (max research per tile) chasing a positive linear variable (base research cost for repeatable techs).
I know the tall-vs-wide acolytes will argue that a huge empire should suffer such penalties but hear me out. Stellaris isn't a tall-compatible game. Tall will never protect you from the sheer size of enemy federations, FEs and end-game crises. A huge empire should be able to expand while preserving (and even improving research time).
Does anyone have any ideas on how to fix this via modding?
----
UPDATE: following responses by folk way smarter than me in the thread, my analysis was somewhat flawed. Yes, the extra penalty per pop does exceed the research that pop generates. BUT, that still decreases the Empire average research time of techs
Using my first example of that 6000 base cost tech:
Extra penalty of 60
divided by
extra research per pop of 10
= 6 (months),
which is still a LOT lower than the "pre-extra pop" average research time (+60 months in my current game)
So what's the optimum research per planet and pop penalty? I define optimum as anything that allows me to complete a repeatable tech in less than 60 months (that's comfortably way ahead of what the AI can achieve).
Repeatable tech base cost = let's just say 4000, it varies, this is a conservative estimate
Each extra pop adds a 67 penalty (assuming average planet size of 15 ...FYI, that number decreases the higher your average planet size ...to a max of 56)
So at 67 penalty per pop, for every 10 pops (670 penalty) you'd need ~11 in pop-generated research to stay at 60 months.
So unless you're in repeatable-tech-only end-game purgatory, 3 labs per planet of 15 (producing 30 research total) is golden (i.e. more than enough to beat the AI)
And by the time that base cost is 8000 however, you need around 19 research generation per 10 pops.
In conclusion, I was wrong, the research penalty is just fine
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