Dear Paradox, It's time for a dlc subscription service.

  • We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

McGown_r

Private
79 Badges
Apr 7, 2018
10
1
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Stellaris
  • Age of Wonders III
  • BATTLETECH: Flashpoint
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Victoria 2
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • BATTLETECH
  • Surviving Mars
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Prison Architect
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • BATTLETECH: Season pass
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Deluxe edition
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Teleglitch: Die More Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
Well first let me say thank you for keeping loot boxes and other such things out of your games and wow you all are putting out a ridiculous amount of good games. So much in fact that most of my gaming budget goes not to pick out what's new or even best but instead which product of yours is next of my purchase queue. For example, I would love to get megacorp and the new pack for stellaris or the DLC for Battletech but I'm still trying to catch up on ck 2 and eu 4 DLC and buying IR means I skip on the new mars terraforming dlc or planet fall.

Point is your competing with your self now and have a large enough offering that a subscription service makes sense. What I would like to see offered is a dlc sub service where for let's say hypothetically for 10$ a month I get access to all dlc of the base games I own. You could also spice it up with free trials of new base games or free base game of the month. Unlike say Humble monthly the dlc would still need to be bought to keep when off subscription. This would allow your customers to keep up with what's new with paradox and kick the feeling on games like eu 4 and ck 2 that I'll never catch up to full game status all while providing a nice stable revenue stream. I've seen you do special free trials of DLC on steam so I know you can technically do it. This is just a rough idea and needs further work but hopefully, some ideas can be generated in this thread to help make or break the case.

Please, Paradox you're killing my wallet here.
 

Alfray Stryke

Stellaris Game Designer
Paradox Staff
QA
136 Badges
Feb 21, 2014
2.689
13.130
  • PDXCON 2017 Gold Ticket holder
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • PDXCON 2018 "The Emperor"
  • PDXCon 2019 "Emperor"
At both PDXCON17 and PDXCON18 I've cornered Shams and suggested this same concept to him, he didn't seem convinced it was a good move at either time. :(
 

CookieMonk

Paradox Fanatic
164 Badges
Feb 4, 2012
366
115
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Magicka
  • Cities in Motion
  • King Arthur II
  • Supreme Ruler 2020
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Sengoku
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Pride of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Tyranny: Gold Edition
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Age of Wonders
  • BATTLETECH - Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44 -  Back to Hell
  • Commander: Conquest of the Americas
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • 500k Club
  • Tyranny - Bastards Wound
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • BATTLETECH
  • Crusader Kings Complete
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44
Well first let me say thank you for keeping loot boxes and other such things out of your games and wow you all are putting out a ridiculous amount of good games. So much in fact that most of my gaming budget goes not to pick out what's new or even best but instead which product of yours is next of my purchase queue. For example, I would love to get megacorp and the new pack for stellaris or the DLC for Battletech but I'm still trying to catch up on ck 2 and eu 4 DLC and buying IR means I skip on the new mars terraforming dlc or planet fall.

Point is your competing with your self now and have a large enough offering that a subscription service makes sense. What I would like to see offered is a dlc sub service where for let's say hypothetically for 10$ a month I get access to all dlc of the base games I own. You could also spice it up with free trials of new base games or free base game of the month. Unlike say Humble monthly the dlc would still need to be bought to keep when off subscription. This would allow your customers to keep up with what's new with paradox and kick the feeling on games like eu 4 and ck 2 that I'll never catch up to full game status all while providing a nice stable revenue stream. I've seen you do special free trials of DLC on steam so I know you can technically do it. This is just a rough idea and needs further work but hopefully, some ideas can be generated in this thread to help make or break the case.

Please, Paradox you're killing my wallet here.

I agree it is time for a subscription service, there is a lot of DLC to buy now. Maybe "Shams" will see it that way this time. (hopefully
 

AndrewT

The Full Monty Python
Moderator
116 Badges
Jun 29, 2001
85.067
3.593
  • Leviathan: Warships
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For The Glory
  • Gettysburg
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Impire
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • King Arthur II
  • Knights of Pen and Paper +1 Edition
  • Lead and Gold
  • Legio
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • The Kings Crusade
  • Lost Empire - Immortals
  • Magicka
  • Majesty 2 Collection
  • March of the Eagles
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Naval War: Arctic Circle
  • Pirates of Black Cove
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Rome Gold
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Ancient Space
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Cities in Motion
  • Cities in Motion 2
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • A Game of Dwarves
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Commander: Conquest of the Americas
  • Darkest Hour
  • Dungeonland
  • East India Company Collection
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
for 10$ a month I get access to all dlc of the base games I own.
So you pay $10 for one month, get say $200 worth of DLCs, then unsubscribe. What happens to those DLCs, do they go away then? Or you've got them permanently at a 95% discount?

Less money coming in for DLCs means fewer DLCs, simple as that.
 

Matt714

Repentigny, QC
129 Badges
May 14, 2009
769
1.539
33
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • BATTLETECH
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • BATTLETECH - Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury Pre-order
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • BATTLETECH: Flashpoint
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Premium edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Deluxe edition
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • BATTLETECH: Season pass
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Season pass
  • Teleglitch: Die More Edition
  • War of the Roses
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Magicka: Wizard Wars Founder Wizard
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Achtung Panzer
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
So you pay $10 for one month, get say $200 worth of DLCs, then unsubscribe. What happens to those DLCs, do they go away then? Or you've got them permanently at a 95% discount?

Less money coming in for DLCs means fewer DLCs, simple as that.

Like other streaming / subscription services, you would simply lose access.

What's the main issue is that Paradox would certainly make less money. $10 for the library is simply not enough, and anything over wouldn't bring in much. o_O
 

McGown_r

Private
79 Badges
Apr 7, 2018
10
1
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Stellaris
  • Age of Wonders III
  • BATTLETECH: Flashpoint
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Victoria 2
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • BATTLETECH
  • Surviving Mars
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Prison Architect
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • BATTLETECH: Season pass
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Deluxe edition
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Teleglitch: Die More Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
So you pay $10 for one month, get say $200 worth of DLCs, then unsubscribe. What happens to those DLCs, do they go away then? Or you've got them permanently at a 95% discount?

Less money coming in for DLCs means fewer DLCs, simple as that.

10$ is just a number I threw out and as I said in OT the dlc is not yours to keep. This would simply be an option that lets people enjoy the base games they bought without being overwhelmed with a dlc list in the hundreds of dollars per game at this point. You would still need to own the base game on the subscription. The sub price should be about the same as buying a new dlc each month and is geared more to people who own multiple PDS titles or are trying to catch up on older titles like ck2.
 

AndrewT

The Full Monty Python
Moderator
116 Badges
Jun 29, 2001
85.067
3.593
  • Leviathan: Warships
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For The Glory
  • Gettysburg
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Impire
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • King Arthur II
  • Knights of Pen and Paper +1 Edition
  • Lead and Gold
  • Legio
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • The Kings Crusade
  • Lost Empire - Immortals
  • Magicka
  • Majesty 2 Collection
  • March of the Eagles
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Naval War: Arctic Circle
  • Pirates of Black Cove
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Rome Gold
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Ancient Space
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Cities in Motion
  • Cities in Motion 2
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • A Game of Dwarves
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Commander: Conquest of the Americas
  • Darkest Hour
  • Dungeonland
  • East India Company Collection
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
10$ is just a number I threw out and as I said in OT the dlc is not yours to keep.
So for whatever charge per month you get any and all DLCs for all PDS (or maybe PI?) games until you stop paying. I see.

As it stands the income from an expansion pays for the development and testing of the free patch that comes along with it. How would that work in this model?
 

McGown_r

Private
79 Badges
Apr 7, 2018
10
1
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Stellaris
  • Age of Wonders III
  • BATTLETECH: Flashpoint
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Victoria 2
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • BATTLETECH
  • Surviving Mars
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Prison Architect
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • BATTLETECH: Season pass
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Deluxe edition
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Teleglitch: Die More Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
So for whatever charge per month you get any and all DLCs for all PDS (or maybe PI?) games until you stop paying. I see.

As it stands the income from an expansion pays for the development and testing of the free patch that comes along with it. How would that work in this model?

So looking at the new release page PDS is putting out roughly 2 dlc worth 30$ total a month. Now I don't have the data on buyers PDS have but for me and people like me, that's a bit steep and I will add the dlc to a list and when it hits a sale maybe I'll pick up one or two and as you know sales are super frequent. Under a sub model, which is not a replacement but a supplement, I pay let's say 15 $ dollars a month. PDS is still getting money for development but now there are more options on the consumer side and I can tell my buddy hey get ck2, yea its got a 125$ dlc list but don't worry get the sub and see for yourself what dlc you want to get. It can also help with internal telemetry by seeing which new dlc is actually having an impact on playtime vs the trickle of when can my customer base get around to buying it among the flood of stuff. I've seen paradox grow over the years and am truly amazed, but the downside now is so much is coming out that there is now a very real legacy barrier being built into the games. For example one of my top PDS games Stellaris has 3 dlc I don't have but want and I bought it at launch. I had to make choices such as do I want megacorp or Rome, and I feel punished for buying new games because I fall behind on the ones I already have. Paradox is willing to do free trials to get dlc in front of eyes for EU4, why not take it to the next level, have as part of the sub if you really like a certain dlc give like a 10% discount to encourage conversion.

I hope PDS can see that they aren't the little niche gaming studio anymore but have a proper and impressive growing library that could benefit from having a sub service.
 

Kayden_II

Banned
43 Badges
Jan 6, 2014
1.909
1.909
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Federations
It's a "better" idea to demand money for the actual "updates" / patches:
01. 2 sources of money ("updates" / patches as well as DLCs) instead of just 1 (DLCs) ...
02. Increased quality / Fewer technical debts since there's (finally) motivation (potential money) to complete, fix and optimize their games (through the payed "updates" / patches) ...
03. Since DLCs are just the second (instead of the only) source for money, they're (finally) able to develop new DLCs if they've good ideas and not because they have to ...

I've a model like this in mind:
01. 40 bucks for the V1.0.0-base-game and all "updates" / patches till V1.1.X are "free" ...
02. V1.2.0 will be an "update" / patch to demand XX bucks for. Additionally, PDS offers DLC A for YY bucks. Logically, in order to buy and play DLC A, the customer has to pay the XX bucks (for the "update" / patch of V1.2.0) before. All "updates" / patches till V1.3.X are "free".
03. Let me say, that V1.4.0 is the next "update" / patch to pay ZZ bucks for: I would recommend, that a V1.1.X-customer has just to pay the ZZ bucks to "upgrade" / patch his / her V1.1.X-version to the V1.4.0-one. All "updates" / patches till V1.5.X are "free".
 
Last edited:

Tyberius_D

Imperator
88 Badges
Sep 7, 2009
159
2
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • March of the Eagles
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Prison Architect
  • Cities: Skylines - Campus
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Supreme Ruler 2020
  • Victoria 2
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Divine Wind
I'm going to have to say no to this. If you need to value game, wait till the sale. Yes, you will be playing behind everyone else, but that's economics. You get what you pay for.
 

MaximusSC

Corporal
37 Badges
Sep 24, 2018
49
1
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Cities: Skylines - Campus
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
I'm going to have to say no to this. If you need to value game, wait till the sale. Yes, you will be playing behind everyone else, but that's economics. You get what you pay for.

Seconded.

Think about it. If you pay $10 a month for a monthly subscription and keep that subscription for a year you've paid $120 for nothing more than to have access to the DLC's. You don't get to keep the DLC's if you cancel that subscription. You, therefore, must still purchase the DLC's if you want to continue to play your games using said DLC's. This does NOT make economic sense for the player. You'd do better to save that $120 and use it to buy the DLC's of your choosing. Yes you might have to wait a while as you save that money but you, as the consumer, spend less in the long run.

Me, personally, I don't purchase any game that requires a subscription to play. That's why I no longer play console games. I'm a believer that since I paid money for a game I own a copy of said game to play at my leisure without additional cost. I disagree with these gaming companies policies who believe you are only leasing the right to play their game. Any other product you purchase you own. Video/computer games shouldn't be any different!!!
 

hunter02

Second Lieutenant
27 Badges
Apr 4, 2016
189
0
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Sword of the Stars
  • Rome Gold
  • Prison Architect
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Cities: Skylines
  • War of the Roses
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Victoria 2
  • March of the Eagles
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • The Kings Crusade
Just to play devil's advocate, there's a player benefit that a lot of people here are missing. The player gets a lot of variety for less price. If you spend $150 to buy ck2 + expansions on sale (last I saw it on steam anyway), and you buy nothing else for 15 months, then you are effectively paying $10 a month for that full ck2. But you can only play one game for that huge amount of time. I like pdx games, but i'd probably get bored if I only played one for 15 months straight. By contrast, if you paid $10 a month for usage of the entire pdx library*, you can play any game you want on any day.

* the title says 'dlc subscription' but it could easily be a subscription for the base game too.

P.S. i'm not advocating for it, I just wanted to make a point. I'm okay with the current system.
 

Jeankazuhiza

First Lieutenant
82 Badges
Sep 28, 2009
290
80
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: By Blood Alone
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Victoria 2
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
To this suggestion.... No, no, no and 1.000 times, no.
 

MaximusSC

Corporal
37 Badges
Sep 24, 2018
49
1
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Cities: Skylines - Campus
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
Just to play devil's advocate, there's a player benefit that a lot of people here are missing. The player gets a lot of variety for less price. If you spend $150 to buy ck2 + expansions on sale (last I saw it on steam anyway), and you buy nothing else for 15 months, then you are effectively paying $10 a month for that full ck2. But you can only play one game for that huge amount of time. I like pdx games, but i'd probably get bored if I only played one for 15 months straight. By contrast, if you paid $10 a month for usage of the entire pdx library*, you can play any game you want on any day.

* the title says 'dlc subscription' but it could easily be a subscription for the base game too.

P.S. i'm not advocating for it, I just wanted to make a point. I'm okay with the current system.

I know that I'm not 'missing' a thing. I know that I'm not missing a thing because I know which games of Paradox I own and which DLC's I own and how long I've owned them in addition to how much time I've invested into playing these games. You can get a vague idea just by looking at the icons to the left of this post. This is how I know you own Stellaris, Crusader Kings II, EU III, EUIV, Victoria 2, Prison Architect (which you may or may not have purchased before Paradox took ownership of), etc. What I don't see in those icons under your profile are DLC's. If I knew you on Steam I'd be able to see how much time you've invested into said games you own.

Now it's time for some math.

Let's say Paradox implements a $10 a month subscription. Just with that much information alone we can ascertain that anyone who subscribes ends up with a monthly bill of $10. That would be on top of any/all other monthly bills an individual might have. Who wants another monthly bill? I, for one, know I don't want another monthly bill. Especially when I know that if Paradox implements such a policy so will ALL the other game developers/publishers will follow suit. That could easily add up into hundreds of dollars a month for those who own games that are developed by various/numerous companies (EA, Kalypso, Frontier, Firaxis, OxyMoron Games, Ubisoft.... Just to name a few). I believe an average person who has an average income (give or take) simply can't afford such nor should they be forced to limit their options by choosing one or two companies to subscribe to.

Let's consider the value you get for having a subscription vs one time payments.

If you subscribe to a company and play 1 game for 1 hour then the value of that game for you was $10 per hour. If you played for two hours then your value was $5 per hour. If you played for 100 hours then your value was $0.10 per hour. Do you see where I'm going with this? Ok, in case you don't then consider the fact that in order to maintain a lower cost value for the player the player will need to maintain an average number of hours playing said company's games each month because that value of the game is in direct correlation to money spent divided by hours played. This means that each month you pay a subscription fee you must play a certain number of hours in order to maintain a certain value that you, the player, get out of said game(s). Each month you pay that $10 fee you negatively affect your overall value of said game(s).

So what value do you get for your game if you purchase it outright?

Let's say you purchase EUIV at full price (currently the base game costs $39.99; rounded to $40). Let's say you played the game for 1 hours. The value you got for your money out of the $40 purchase and played for only 1 hour is $40 per hour. I know that sounds like a lot but if you are like most people you'll play more than 1 hour. If you played for 100 hours the value you got out of the game was $0.40 per hour. Yes, I know this is still higher that in the subscription example above. But you must consider the fact that in the subscription example you must average 100 hours of play time a month in order to maintain that $0.10 per hour value. Whereas in this example you don't have that limitation as for each additional hour you play the price you paid for the game makes the value better for you. To illustrate: If you purchased the game for $40 and played for 1000 hours the value you got for your money was $0.04 per hour. That means you spent $0.04 per hour for 1000 hours of entertainment.

I, for one, have an invested amount of $225 into EUIV alone. I have also invested 3354 hours into the game alone and I have owned the game since September 2016. With that information you should be able to calculate that I would have spent $350 in monthly fees had their been a subscription policy. I would have spent more for the game if I paid a monthly subscription. The value I got out of the game is better to have purchased the game and the DLC's. My current value is $0.07 per hour of play (This is based off the hard numbers and doesn't take into account what has been gifted me nor what was purchased at discount in sales). My value is still less than what I would have acquired if I paid a subscription and as I continue to play EUIV the value that I get out of the game will improve for me. Whereas had I been paying a subscription my value would be closer to a constant and less (meaning more cost per hour).

So NO. I'm not 'missing' a thing. Thank you.