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Originally posted by someone special
(sigh. I'd better preface, this is satire)
Dear God,

In reviewing my WW2 history books, I've come across a number of obvious bugs and design issues.

-Overt German militarism, rearmament, and aggression continues from 1933 on without a democratic response from the AI until well past the point any human would recognize its intentions.
-Similarly, the USA, with vast potential power sits twiddling its thumbs in depression and actually CUTS its military production until well after the agression has begun. I hope you can introduce a patch that at least tells the US not to CUT military production during the 1930's.
-There is a very cheap exploit available where the German player, with a smaller army and inferior equipment in almost all categories, can use the "Ardennes Bug" to encircle and eliminate the cream of French land forces.
-Even though an invasion of the USSR is hard coded into the German AI (Mein Kampf), the USSR still signs a non-agression pact with Germany and fulfills it right up to the day of invasion!
-Even after the UK has lost all allies and has essentially no heavy equipment left to defend itself, the AI refuses to sign generous peace terms offered by Germany including retention of its navy and empire.
-The German AI on the other hand is way too aggressive, and even while at war with the UK and USSR spontaneously declares war on the USA also after Japan attacks the US.
-Speaking of which, Japan clearly has no chance at all against the US, can the next patch just tell countries that are outmatched in manpower, resources, technology and production by multiple factors to not attack them?

Of course I know I am oversimplifying. Here's hoping that Paradox patches the glaring issues and removes the ridiculous while still leaving the irrational. :)

I'd make a few responses, in real life Germany did quite as they pleased with absolutely no democratic response until the attack on Poland. All the democratics thought Hitler would stop once he had re-established the German commonwealth. I think the game represents that well. However, sometimes its been observed that the allies enter too soon.

The US had no military because they were in the midst of a vase depression, Germany got out of its similar depression by aquiring the countries around them, as they were close to actually going bankrupt in 38 had they not aquired Chekslovakia. The US actually enters the war too soon, and with what seems like way too many bombers for 1939. They are almost instantly at Germanies doorstep when war is declared in the Game.

Yes, of course the German equipment was inferior. What are you talking about? It's always consistently better in the 39 scenario. Anyway, Germany has the land doctrine advantage and they won simply because of blitzkrieg (Against France).

Yes, it seems Germany is hardcoded to attack Russia. My thing is Russia always seems to get creamed by the Germans. I think maybe this should be played by percentages instead. The Germans may or may not attack Russia. But in real life, they always were going to. Because of Hitler.

I've never seen the US wait that long. In most games they always attack Germany before Germany declears war on them. Sometimes Italy doesn't even ally with Germany either.

Japan had no choice in real life. So they will almost always attack in the game. The needed the resources, because the US had cut them off completely they needed resources from elsewhere. I'm betting a human player could win against the US with Japan. I've seen games where the human player was Germany and Japan managed to win with them.
 

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Duck, are you still around.

After 2 years of being here. Sigh. I remember the olden days, when there was barely anyone with over 1,000 posts. Now everyone is just racking it up.

Speaking of which, sigh, apparently so many of my old posts have been deleted. Being stripped of your rank is most harsh. I need to come around more often.

Anyway, it's nice to see an old face. (or avatar)
 

unmerged(1095)

Young Old'un
Feb 23, 2001
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Originally posted by Stromprophet
Duck, are you still around.

After 2 years of being here. Sigh. I remember the olden days, when there was barely anyone with over 1,000 posts. Now everyone is just racking it up.

Speaking of which, sigh, apparently so many of my old posts have been deleted. Being stripped of your rank is most harsh. I need to come around more often.

Anyway, it's nice to see an old face. (or avatar)

Hi. :)
I am always around - to some members chagrin!
Wait until the next purge here and some of the new members lose part of their post count :) - that should be fun ...

Incidentally the original poster n this thread was cleverly commenting on Real Life and not on the game :) - it was meant to be sarcastic satire :)
 

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Haha... welcome to the forum! :D
 

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Re: Re: Dear God

Originally posted by Stromprophet
I'd make a few responses, in real life Germany did quite as they pleased with absolutely no democratic response until the attack on Poland. All the democratics thought Hitler would stop once he had re-established the German commonwealth. I think the game represents that well. However, sometimes its been observed that the allies enter too soon.

The US had no military because they were in the midst of a vase depression, Germany got out of its similar depression by aquiring the countries around them, as they were close to actually going bankrupt in 38 had they not aquired Chekslovakia. The US actually enters the war too soon, and with what seems like way too many bombers for 1939. They are almost instantly at Germanies doorstep when war is declared in the Game.


Couple of quibbles :

1. The "democratic response" comment is a bit off. Several democratic countries had begun gearing up for war in 1936, among them Sweden and Switzerland. All through the 30s, France spent enormous sums of money on the Maginot Line. After March, 1939, Britain vastly increased its preparations for war, and provided a guarantee to Poland. Chamberlain and the British government made it quite clear to Germany that Britain would NOT back down from the Polish Guarantee, and that any attack on Poland would in fact lead to war. This was what led Hitler to start the process to get the Soviets on board, and ultimately, the war itself when it turned out that Chamberlain wasn't bluffing.

Its wrong to say there was "no" response prior to Poland.

2. The US didn't have "no" military. The US had the largest Navy in the world in 1938, and having no direct land threats, this was considered sufficient for defense. The depression had begun to turn around in 1937-38, when the European democracies began to re-arm. The problem is that when you aren't interested in conquest of other nations, you generally don't maintain or build up an enormous military establishment unless you are directly threatened.
 

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Re: Re: Dear God

Originally posted by Stromprophet
I'd make a few responses, in real life Germany did quite as they pleased with absolutely no democratic response until the attack on Poland. All the democratics thought Hitler would stop once he had re-established the German commonwealth. I think the game represents that well. However, sometimes its been observed that the allies enter too soon.

The US had no military because they were in the midst of a vase depression, Germany got out of its similar depression by aquiring the countries around them, as they were close to actually going bankrupt in 38 had they not aquired Chekslovakia. The US actually enters the war too soon, and with what seems like way too many bombers for 1939. They are almost instantly at Germanies doorstep when war is declared in the Game.

Yes, of course the German equipment was inferior. What are you talking about? It's always consistently better in the 39 scenario. Anyway, Germany has the land doctrine advantage and they won simply because of blitzkrieg (Against France).

Yes, it seems Germany is hardcoded to attack Russia. My thing is Russia always seems to get creamed by the Germans. I think maybe this should be played by percentages instead. The Germans may or may not attack Russia. But in real life, they always were going to. Because of Hitler.

I've never seen the US wait that long. In most games they always attack Germany before Germany declears war on them. Sometimes Italy doesn't even ally with Germany either.

Japan had no choice in real life. So they will almost always attack in the game. The needed the resources, because the US had cut them off completely they needed resources from elsewhere. I'm betting a human player could win against the US with Japan. I've seen games where the human player was Germany and Japan managed to win with them.

:D Read the first line of "someone special"s post...

I love this thread,it doesn't deserve to fall so fast:)
 

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Re: Re: Re: Dear God

Originally posted by Bolt
Couple of quibbles :

1. The "democratic response" comment is a bit off. Several democratic countries had begun gearing up for war in 1936, among them Sweden and Switzerland. All through the 30s, France spent enormous sums of money on the Maginot Line. After March, 1939, Britain vastly increased its preparations for war, and provided a guarantee to Poland. Chamberlain and the British government made it quite clear to Germany that Britain would NOT back down from the Polish Guarantee, and that any attack on Poland would in fact lead to war. This was what led Hitler to start the process to get the Soviets on board, and ultimately, the war itself when it turned out that Chamberlain wasn't bluffing.

Its wrong to say there was "no" response prior to Poland.

2. The US didn't have "no" military. The US had the largest Navy in the world in 1938, and having no direct land threats, this was considered sufficient for defense. The depression had begun to turn around in 1937-38, when the European democracies began to re-arm. The problem is that when you aren't interested in conquest of other nations, you generally don't maintain or build up an enormous military establishment unless you are directly threatened.

Yeah, I would agree with the no response. My thinking on response was there were no military gaurentees or responses despite what Germany did. Despite that of Poland.

I guess you could call preparing for war a response, but every nation always prepares for war in the world. I don't know what type of "response" we might call it.

Well, you never have no military. But the US wasn't investing heavily in it. Which, is typical since the US adapted a pattern of not getting involved unless it was directly affected.

The US navy was quite large, but I still think the warships were top of line, or that well prepared until after the war started. I would have been investing in airforce as protection, not navy. But after the war got started the US made greta leaps at developing the air technology.

But now democracies have a much different look, there are massive armies ready to go at any time. Hard to believe that the world was that unprepared for war just 60 years ago.
 
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Lol, one of the funniest threads I ever read in the HoI forums, if not THE funniest. Still, it's sad to see how some people didn't get the humor... :D

Cadorna
 

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Feb 23, 2001
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Originally posted by Cadorna
Lol, one of the funniest threads I ever read in the HoI forums, if not THE funniest. Still, it's sad to see how some people didn't get the humor... :D

Cadorna

I am amazed!!!

People - the initial post was meant to be funny! Please go back and read it with different eyes as it has fooled quite a lot of peole :)
 

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Re: Re: Dear God

Originally posted by Stromprophet


The US had no military because they were in the midst of a vase depression


Actually, the US cut its army after World War I because it had no need for a large standing army. Just as it had after the Civil War, the Spanish-American war, etc.This is a feature of US military policy up until 1945 (and it was resisted then), largly due to American isolationism, and the sense of security afforded by two oceans and a large navy.



Japan had no choice in real life. Ah, revisionist history! Yeah, they did. If they'd proceeded against Dutch/English possessions in Asia, FDR could not have been gauranteed a DOW through congress so strong was the isolationist/anti-war sentiment in theis country. Or they could have stopped being dicks. Economic sanctions do not FORCE people to attack. All the US did was cut them off from AMERICAN oil and metals (stuff we dug out of the ground here in the US).

The needed the resources, because the US had cut them off completely they needed resources from elsewhere. The Pacific Fleet blockaded Tokoyo WHEN? The Japanese were free to buy from elsewhere (not that there was much else than the US at the time, but still, this whole "they had to go to war because we stopped selling them war materiels" thing is so History Channel/Pop History...it makes my teeth bleed.
 

cccino

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Re: Re: Dear God

Originally posted by Stromprophet
I'd make a few responses, in real life Germany did quite as they pleased with absolutely no democratic response until the attack on Poland. All the democratics thought Hitler would stop once he had re-established the German commonwealth. I think the game represents that well. However, sometimes its been observed that the allies enter too soon.

The US had no military because they were in the midst of a vase depression, Germany got out of its similar depression by aquiring the countries around them, as they were close to actually going bankrupt in 38 had they not aquired Chekslovakia. The US actually enters the war too soon, and with what seems like way too many bombers for 1939. They are almost instantly at Germanies doorstep when war is declared in the Game.

Yes, of course the German equipment was inferior. What are you talking about? It's always consistently better in the 39 scenario. Anyway, Germany has the land doctrine advantage and they won simply because of blitzkrieg (Against France).

Yes, it seems Germany is hardcoded to attack Russia. My thing is Russia always seems to get creamed by the Germans. I think maybe this should be played by percentages instead. The Germans may or may not attack Russia. But in real life, they always were going to. Because of Hitler.

I've never seen the US wait that long. In most games they always attack Germany before Germany declears war on them. Sometimes Italy doesn't even ally with Germany either.

Japan had no choice in real life. So they will almost always attack in the game. The needed the resources, because the US had cut them off completely they needed resources from elsewhere. I'm betting a human player could win against the US with Japan. I've seen games where the human player was Germany and Japan managed to win with them.

snkhh!... bwahaahaahaa!!!!!!!!!! :D :rolleyes:
 

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Dear someone special,

I am working on patch 2002.12.03 but everytime I think I've got it perfect, someone comes up with another cheat or problem. Talk about frustrating. Washed all the bugs away with a flood once, but that didn't help. Put my son on it to see what he could do, and look at the reception he got. Got a good mind to send out the horsemen, clean the slate and come up with another concept, like where dolphins are the highest form of life.

You really need me
That's why I love mankind

yours,

God
 

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Since the threads seem to fall so quick I must say that I am lucky that I found this one yesterday evening.

As have been pointed out, the initial post is absolutely one of the cleverest and funniest on the these forums.

I would be funny to see a similar list for the time period covered in EU.
 

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Originally posted by Zwempa IV
[..]

I would be funny to see a similar list for the time period covered in EU.

Starting with
"Dear God, wtf is this Holy Roman Empire meant to be exactly? It's not holy, it's not roman, and it's not an empire ... some kind of Germanic-region multi-national organisation with an elected leader? Come ON ..."
 

PSYCHO V

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Originally posted by Belissarius
The Ardennes Bug was used TWICE! But thankfully the oil rules added by paradox stalled the 2nd use of the bug. Glad the oil rules worked.

huh... what oil rule!??
...now that's gotta be a bulging bug..didn't hear of that in the manual!!!


Cheers