Dealing with Pretenders

[Pippin123]

Started a game as Shimazu.
No son at first, an another Shimazu is Pretender and Daymyo.
What's the best way to deal with him ?

I another game as Ouchi I tried making nice, even granting him some lands to increase relation. The man still launched a crippling civil war...

This time, I tried outright assassination with ninja . They failed, now he hates me (can't blame him ).

So what's your strategy to deal with somewhat powerful pretenders ? Just ignore them and reinforce loyal vassals instead ? Taking back their land usually is crippling in honor cost....

 

[Damendar]

It's best to never let any vassals get powerful in the first place.

As to the Shimazu situation, I know it well, won a game with them yesterday. You're talking about the daimyo vassal Suehisa right? Just ignore him pretty much, once your honor gets close to maximum all the other vassals will support your candidate. If honor seems hard to get for you, you're not playing long enough; buy court ranks and convert to Shintoism to get it up.

He's less dangerous than most because he's still in your main family; that makes him immune from plotting against you at the instigation of others, he will only ever do the 'usurp leadership', 'civil war', etc. type plots. But he'll have the 'I won't plot against my own dynasty' attitude towards outside troublemakers.

Keep him from gaining any more kokujin titles and he'll be dead of old age before he (or his heirs) can get any more powerful. Once you've conquered Kyushu, you will be big enough that his tiny faction won't matter at all anymore.

 

[Blxz]

I also think he controls 2 provinces at game start, the same as you. In my game I demanded one of his provinces from him to up my own power and to lower his. It will cost some honour but for me peace of mind was more important. But generally he is not that much of a threat.

 

[Meanmanturbo]

I also think he controls 2 provinces at game start, the same as you. In my game I demanded one of his provinces from him to up my own power and to lower his. It will cost some honour but for me peace of mind was more important. But generally he is not that much of a threat.

To much of a waste of honor for me. growing big enough to be able to stand up to Ouchi was my biggest concern when playing Shimazu, the only game I won so far ( though my Ishikai sp? is doing pretty well at the moment...). You can pretty much safely ignore him.

 

[Blxz]

To much of a waste of honor for me. growing big enough to be able to stand up to Ouchi was my biggest concern when playing Shimazu, the only game I won so far ( though my Ishikai sp? is doing pretty well at the moment...). You can pretty much safely ignore him.

Words of wisdom considering I ended up losing my game. Might try that if I ever go back to the Shimazu.

 

[Meanmanturbo]

Words of wisdom considering I ended up losing my game. Might try that if I ever go back to the Shimazu.

Ninjaing Otomos honor will give a huge chance for them to brake in two, giving you a good fist conquest to get a 5 kori demense. I noticed them breaking even without help in most of the demo games actually

 

[gord96]

Hehe I know this Shimazu pretender too. He was a pain in the butt for many years for me. 2-3 times he would unseat my heir as clan heir and I would have to give out gold and lands to sway the votes back to my heir. I tried having him...um..."retired", but he found out and almost revolted. As my clan leader reached his late 60's I was stuck in a longer war then I had planned with the Shoni and the votes swung back to the pretender. I knew my leader could die any day so it was a race to get the votes back. Near the end the heir was switching every day between my heir and the pretender. Just by luck, my leader died on the same day that his heir was the nominee. Phew!

Looking forward to the pretender being gone. He is in his late 50's now so hopefully not long.

 

[GShock]

Just bought the game and playing Shimazu too and yes he's that guy.
Actually I would like to understand how I can expand my demeasne around my capital. For example I want Satsuma but I can't get the guy to give it back to me. I even gave him FOUR territories captured in the center Kyushu but he still wouldn't give it back. I'd love to have a core around my capital... my personal demeasne not scattered around but I don't know how to take back the territories I need (I'd like to build the Satsuma province we have in Shogun2 lol and I seemingly can't find a way to do it).

Another thing is, I think it's important to have many daimyos. If you conquer 10 provinces, shouldn't you try to have as many daimyos as possible by assigning to the same guy the whole set of the same color?

 

[ShakaUVM]

Ditto, I'm having trouble with Shimazu Suehisa as well.

I tried taking his land away from him. He refused. I tried ordering him to commit seppuku. He refused. We're now at -100 to each other, and I'm sort of mystified as to what options I have left to deal with the guy. I marched armies into his province... but it doesn't seem like there's anything you can really do about him.

Feels buggish to me. If a daimyo refused an order to commit seppuku, he wouldn't be allowed to just hang out without consequences.

 

[unperson]

Ditto, I'm having trouble with Shimazu Suehisa as well.

I tried taking his land away from him. He refused. I tried ordering him to commit seppuku. He refused. We're now at -100 to each other, and I'm sort of mystified as to what options I have left to deal with the guy. I marched armies into his province... but it doesn't seem like there's anything you can really do about him.

Feels buggish to me. If a daimyo refused an order to commit seppuku, he wouldn't be allowed to just hang out without consequences.

Every time you ask him and he refuses he will lose some honor. He should be already under 15 if you can ask him so just keep asking, when his honor hits 0 he'll die.

 

[gord96]

Ditto, I'm having trouble with Shimazu Suehisa as well.

I tried taking his land away from him. He refused. I tried ordering him to commit seppuku. He refused. We're now at -100 to each other, and I'm sort of mystified as to what options I have left to deal with the guy. I marched armies into his province... but it doesn't seem like there's anything you can really do about him.

Feels buggish to me. If a daimyo refused an order to commit seppuku, he wouldn't be allowed to just hang out without consequences.

did you try assassinating him with a ninja?

 

[Damendar]

You folks who are so worried about him are missing the point. Just ignore him. Once you've grown beyond Kyushu, which you need to do to win, as long as you dont let him accumulate additional provinces during wartime, he will become insignificant.

Take out your target of choice on Kyushu, add some OPM kokujins, voila.

Now theres 3-4 votes for your candidate, because the OPM vassals you appointed are loyal to you. He only gets 1 vote in the succession council himself.

Also, there seems to be some sort of relationship between vassals not supporting your children when they are incredibly young. If you pop out your first male heir, and make him the clan heir, a lot of people won't vote for him, presumably because of the fairly high children mortality rates sometimes. Once the kid is a teenager (actually more like 10+), if you have decent honor and a decent amount of OPM vassals, they will ALWAYS pick your choice, and the problems of pretenders disappears, unless you let them become powerful by conquering territories themselves.

If you keep him from expanding, he will stop mattering. That's all you have to do.

 

[GShock]

I have no idea where to check on the pretenders...

When I name a heir, my vassals are supposed to vote on him assuming command at my death... yet, basically I don't know where these votes can be seen... the interface is truly daunting that's why we need a guide.

 

[Damendar]

I have no idea where to check on the pretenders...

When I name a heir, my vassals are supposed to vote on him assuming command at my death... yet, basically I don't know where these votes can be seen... the interface is truly daunting that's why we need a guide.

Open the Clan Interface screen. It's one of the major buttons, I think 2nd from the left. Your clan leader is in the upper left, the guy who you are nominating is upper center with a 'nominate' button underneath it, and there is a row of smaller pictures labeled 'pretenders'. Tooltipping each picture will show you the breakdown on which vassal is voting for whom. Only your direct first tier vassals get to vote.

 

[Chranny]

I have no idea where to check on the pretenders...

When I name a heir, my vassals are supposed to vote on him assuming command at my death... yet, basically I don't know where these votes can be seen... the interface is truly daunting that's why we need a guide.

Your vassals will vote on whomever they have the best relations with, however some vassals with weaker minds will be swayed to vote on the one you nominate your relations and honour are high enough.

The "Nominated by" is who votes for him, as you can see Uesugi Harutsugu will only get one vote from Daimyo Nagao Chikasue who hates my leader because I had his father commit sepukku after revoking one of his provinces.
My relations with Uesugi Harutsugu is so good that he won't even vote for himself. :happy:

 

[KroganElite]

Always always always only give land to your direct family members. Also, give them a Daimyo title so they can have their own vassals too. Just give them new regions you take and they will allocate it by themselves. Always marry them to keep the power in your family only. If they die without an heir, like 99% of the time the titles go back to someone else in your family.

Remember: Those who hold the land hold the power.

 

[GShock]

Krogan the problem is I can't seem to understand how to grant the title of Daimyo to a guy.

All I see is the 3 dots in the circle (Kokujin) so even if a Kuni is all in my hands you are saying to give a Daimyo title but I can't understand how to.
Is there a way to give a guy the title of Daimyo and not the title of Kokujin?

Should I give the Daimyo to someone and then let him pick his kokujin?

 

[womble]

Trying out the demo, still in the first few years, I have vassals who I don't think much of because there's a -25 for "Supporting the Pretender" but there are no Pretenders in the Clan interface. Is this an issue? Or will it just go away when my son comes of age and I can nominate him instead of the current heir-designate.

 

[Tharsonius]

When you appoint a new heir some pretenders appear. When you appoint the SAME heir right again, all pretenders are gone.
Is this a bug?