De Nedderdüütsch Mod/The Low German Mod

[Polskers]

Hey all! In celebration of my first released mod (but not my first foray into the modding world, per se!), I'd like to bring to you this little gem of a mod, the Niederdeutsch cultural flavour mod. What is it, you ask?

Well, if you know anything about linguistics in Germany & the German region, Low German (or Nedderdüütsch/Plattdüütsch) is spoken in Northern Germany, the historical area where the continental Saxons were (Low Saxony, etc.), and is still spoken to this day in and out of Germany. What this mod does, is add them as a culture into the game, modifies the dynasties, provinces, and characters to reflect as such, and allows you to start as a Low Saxon count, duke, what have you, even create your own with the ruler designer if you'd like!

For those who'd like to know more about Low German and the context of the mod, you could follow this link - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low_German

Some changes include --

Dynasty names changed -
661 - Brunonen to vun Stood
669 - Ludolfinger to Liudolfinger

So, Polskers, where does the Low German culture actually extend to in the game?
The in-game areas of the Duchies of Koln, Brunswick, Thuringia, Saxony, Brandenburg, Holstein, Mecklenburg, and in the later game, Prussia, are covered by the Low German sprachraum

Is it compatible with any mods?
I have included compatches for CPR & ARKO (mods that I use), which require you overwriting files in THOSE mods, not in the Low German mod itself.
Other than that, it is compatible with pretty much any mod that does NOT replace the 00_cultures & 00_dynasties files, AND vanilla of course.
If you would like me to make a compatibility patch for any mod, then please ask and I'll see what I can do for you! I'm very open to doing so.

Can I include this in my mod, or use it for my own personal use?
Of course you can! For the latter, go right ahead.
For the former, of course you can as well!!! Just please give credit where credit is due. Thank you so much!

Can I report a bug or suggestion?
Absolutely you may! Just leave a message here and I'll be more than happy to take a look and implement it.

Credits
I'd like to thank Thure for the AWESOME Low Saxon name list (thanks, buddy!), and PI for making a wonderful game with such an open ended environment to work with. Modding CK2 is a breeze.

Changelog

Spoiler

Version 1.0 - Initial release, added Low Saxon culture, changed names, provinces, dynasties.
Version 1.1 - Provinces, dynasties tweaked a bit. Kingdom of Saxony added.

So how do I install this bad boy?!
Simply extract to Documents/Paradox Interactive/Crusader Kings II/Mod, and enjoy the enhancement of playing a Northern German!

So without further ado, here's the mod! Play it, enjoy it, please leave feedback! Thanks and happy gaming!

View attachment Niederdeutsch 1.1.rar

 

[Zdyx]

Not having looked deeper into it so far, I just want to mention that "Plautdietsch" is actually a very specific variant of it and the more general term would be "Plattdietsch/Plattdüütsch/Plattdeutsch".

Apart from that very interesting idea.

 

[Aardvark Bellay]

MAd idea .

Maybe you should post a link to this in the german subforum (link in my sig) as well. Might find some interest.

I wonder why Prussia is included though. Wasn't that settled by swabians and err.....well a mix, rather than northern germans ?

 

[Polskers]

Not having looked deeper into it so far, I just want to mention that "Plautdietsch" is actually a very specific variant of it and the more general term would be "Plattdietsch/Plattdüütsch/Plattdeutsch".

Apart from that very interesting idea.

Thanks, man! It's not called Plautdietsch in game, I just stuck to calling it Low German. I am definitely aware Plautdietsch is a regional dialect/specific name. Plattdüütsch is what I meant, obviously. But I hope you get to having a look around and let me know what you think!

MAd idea .

Maybe you should post a link to this in the german subforum (link in my sig) as well. Might find some interest.

Thanks man! I will do so! You could do as well if you'd like. My German is a little rusty, but the added exposure would definitely help. Hope you enjoy the mod once you get around to playing with it a bit.

 

[Zdyx]

Thanks, man! It's not called Plautdietsch in game, I just stuck to calling it Low German. I am definitely aware Plautdietsch is a regional dialect/specific name. Plattdüütsch is what I meant, obviously. But I hope you get to having a look around and let me know what you think!

I'm looking through the folders right now (for some reason CK2 isn't running properly currently on my computer).

In general I like the idea that somebody gives the north of Germany some love mod-wise, but you might be going a little too far to include Cologne, Thuringia and Saxony into the cultural sphere, I don't really know how exactly you decide whether something should be part of it or not, but for example Cologne is quite clearly rather Frankish than Saxon.
I'd be curious for what exactly were your standards when determining the changes also when it comes to language, did you just use the respective self-given denomination or did you favour certain namings over others?

 

[Polskers]

I'm looking through the folders right now (for some reason CK2 isn't running properly currently on my computer).

In general I like the idea that somebody gives the north of Germany some love mod-wise, but you might be going a little too far to include Cologne, Thuringia and Saxony into the cultural sphere, I don't really know how exactly you decide whether something should be part of it or not, but for example Cologne is quite clearly rather Frankish than Saxon.
I'd be curious for what exactly were your standards when determining the changes also when it comes to language, did you just use the respective self-given denomination or did you favour certain namings over others?

I just went with the standardised name, Low German, for the localisation in game, and the translations in French, German, and Spanish respectively.

As for the map of where Low German was spoken, I used a rough estimation based on the following map -- I wasn't sure whether to make a Mittledeutsch as I'm not sure in the Middle Ages there would have been much of a distinction between that and Low or High German, but rather a blending of the two. What I tried to stick to was duchy boundaries within the Kingdom of Germany to allow there to be a clear border between "Northern" and "Southern" Germany so to speak.

- This is the map I am referring to.

To Aardvark Bellay - Prussia, as far as I know, was a mix of High & Low German, thus I represented it as primarily Low German.

But do keep in mind that this is merely version 1.0 & I am more than able and willing to make changes to future versions, and more than likely will!

 

[Zdyx]

As for the map of where Low German was spoken, I used a rough estimation based on the following map -- I wasn't sure whether to make a Mittledeutsch as I'm not sure in the Middle Ages there would have been much of a distinction between that and Low or High German, but rather a blending of the two. What I tried to stick to was duchy boundaries within the Kingdom of Germany to allow there to be a clear border between "Northern" and "Southern" Germany so to speak.

I see, well to answer your question, yes there was a Mitteldeutsch even in the Middle Ages, whether it is justifiable to draw a border anywhere based on some isoglosses is questionable anyway, as the differences are rather minute.
I would generally tend to weigh the border between Low and Middle German as more important though, as it represents the border between Low and High German, i.e. South of that border the High German consonant shift took place to varying degrees, thus I would when in doubt rather place the border more to the north than to the south.
Staying with the example of Cologne it was the cultural center of that region and clearly underwent a shift from k->ch in its language, so I'd rather not place it in the Low German sphere.

But that's only if you strictly stick to drawing borders based on modern isoglosses. (Those maps are mostly based on surveys that have taken place in the second half of the 19th century, not that it would be entirely impossible to extrapolate similar maps to those ages we're talking about but as our sources are very very limited it's hard, so the approximations are rough. In fact our oldest sources of Old High German are just from around the starting time of TOG.)

Of the times we're speaking about I personally wouldn't draw a border between "Dutch" and "German" even less between "Dutch" and "Low German". Even nowadays if you take the local dialects into consideration there's hardly any sensible border to be drawn between them (yes I am aware of the Einheitsplural line but even that isn't a consistent feature distinguishing both if you look at East Frisian and dialects of Northern Schleswig), but that's just my personal view and I admit it's not the most popular one.

 

[Polskers]

I can understand where you're coming from on your interpretation of the matter. It is very possible that my interpretation of the Low German sprachraum is a bit liberal to be fair, and I'll certainly take a look at revising the initial provinces and expansion pattern to reflect it as accurately as possible.
You make a lot of good points, especially that Cologne would not be within exactly the border defined and I will take a look at it.

 

[Zdyx]

It is very possible that my interpretation of the Low German sprachraum is a bit liberal to be fair, and I'll certainly take a look at revising the initial provinces and expansion pattern to reflect it as accurately as possible.

Though since it is a culture we are talking about it might be okay to rather group things like Cologne with Northerners than with Southerners gameplay-wise that might make the the culture more stable and it is admittedly not too far off.

But all in all I appreciate your work so far, I wouldn't have thought somebody would put the effort into making such a mod.

 

[Polskers]

Though since it is a culture we are talking about it might be okay to rather group things like Cologne with Northerners than with Southerners gameplay-wise that might make the the culture more stable and it is admittedly not too far off.

But all in all I appreciate your work so far, I wouldn't have thought somebody would put the effort into making such a mod.

Being a Northern European myself I am always interested in spicing our area of game play up in any way, from the British Isles into the Lowlands and into Germany.

You're right, I think extending the border a little bit allows for a bit more cultural stability and less of a chance it's just eaten up by the Austro-Bavarian High German rulers, even if they are the highest liege of the land. I will do some revising on the matter surely and update when I make the next release, more than likely this weekend. I plan on adding a little more flavour still on, perhaps a titular title for the Kingdom of Saxony for a very ambitious Low Saxon ruler, we shall just see surely.

I'm glad you like it however! Thanks a lot.

 

[SBolshevik]

AFAIK, isn't Otto von Nordheim, the ruler of Bavaria in 1066 a Saxon/Low German?

 

[JonStryker]

This map is probably from the time between the great wars i.e. 1918 -1939 so not really suited for the argument here. Before the Polish corridor was established the Baltic coast was settled by Germanic people from Schleswig to the river Memel (without the gap at Gdynia/Gdingen). Of course in most of CK2's timeline Prussia wasn't Germanic speaking -> putting Low Germans there doesn't make much sense to me.

 

[toluas]

AFAIK, isn't Otto von Nordheim, the ruler of Bavaria in 1066 a Saxon/Low German?

Indeed he was, but as a stranger he was never very popular and was sacked by the emperor pretty after a couple of years. Otto's successor, Welf, was his son-in-law, but when the emperor offered him the duchy, Welf decided to cast out his wife and re-marry...

 

[Aardvark Bellay]

... Of course in most of CK2's timeline Prussia wasn't Germanic speaking -> putting Low Germans there doesn't make much sense to me.

From the file of the mod it becomes saxon/sachsen culture in 1255.
Not sure if this is the right german culture (for the ruling class keep in mind), but i'm no scholar on that front.

 

[Polskers]

I have Prussia becoming Germanic in the year 1255 due to the fact that in the 13th century, the Prussian Crusades took place and the area became Germanic. I just replaced the date that it became "German" with "Sachsen". I can split the two Sachsen provinces into the upper province (Marienburg?) being Low German & the other being High German.

Before the Polish corridor was established the Baltic coast was settled by Germanic people from Schleswig to the river Memel (without the gap at Gdynia/Gdingen).

It was the best map that I could find in regards to the delineation between Low & High German doing a somewhat thorough Google search. The Germanic people in Schleswig would've spoken a Low German dialect, ergo I think it is appropriate that they be Low German as well in the areas they settled. I see your point about Prussia however and I will look more into it. Thanks for the input.

AFAIK, isn't Otto von Nordheim, the ruler of Bavaria in 1066 a Saxon/Low German?

I'll take a look into that. Admittedly, being non-German, I don't know all the in-depth ins and outs, and this is still very much in early form. But I'll have a look regardless. I might keep particular rulers or dynasties as German or Low German depending on area so as to prevent less of a chance of the area becoming unstable.

 

[Polskers]

Version 1.1 is now updated and posted into the main thread, guys!

Changelog
1. Jülich is now back to German culture. I couldn't decide whether or not to place them in the Sachsen sphere of influence, but they are across the river from the Duchy of Köln, so I have decided to place them back within the borders of the High German substrate.
2. Chelminskie (369) has been changed to German culture when it becomes part of the Teutonic/German state. Reason for this being - The map that I indicated earlier in the thread has Low & High German in a North and South position in Prussia respectively, and allows for either or to become the dominant Germanic culture within the region.
3. Ostfriesland starts out as Dutch but changes to Low German in the 13th century to reflect the loss of much of Frisian culture and language. The Cirksena dynasty, however, remains Dutch.
4. Various dynasty changes for both vanilla & ARKO to reflect Low German naming conventions.
5. Is your Low German game going really great? Do you want to be a ruler in your own right? Tired of getting bossed around by those damned Southerners all the time? Now, you don't have to! You don't have to take orders from Munich or Vienna anymore if you don't want to! You can fight for your independence and create the Kingdom of Saxony, and expand all across the borders you wish. The only requirements are being a Low German cultured ruler, being at peace, and being independent (it's not initially createable in any date... But hey...).

Happy gaming, guys!

 

[zeress]

I'll be grabbing this for an in-planning CK2+ addition if that's ok (judging by your first post it would seem so)

 

[Old Man Jenkins]

This is good! Would you consider splitting not only the German cultures but also other cultures (Italian, French, Polish, Russian) in similar mini-mods?