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Bickerstaff

Corporal
42 Badges
Sep 12, 2011
35
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Does anyone know the rules for whether a particular kingdom is a de jure vassal of a new custom empire? According to the wiki:

When formed, all kingdoms either held or entirely controlled by their creator become de jure vassals of the new empire, so long as their original de jure empire does not exist.​

But it looks to me like this must be wrong in at least two ways. In my current sandbox game, I created the custom kingdom of Holmgardr. Since then, I've conquered all of de jure Frisia. I decided to form a custom empire, and was surprised to find it entirely titular. So I re-loaded to verify some things and experiment.

Frisia:
  • No one holds this title, although it existed in the past (before the beginning of my game in the Old Gods bookmark).
  • The title creation tooltip confirms that I control 100% of its de jure counties.
  • Frisia is a de jure vassal of the HRE, but that doesn't currently exist (although again, it did before the start of the bookmark).
  • One of the duchies is held by someone outside the kingdom.
  • Usurping this duchy makes no difference.
  • However, if I create the kingdom title before forming the custom empire, it's a de jure vassal.
Holmgardr:
  • Since it's a custom kingdom, it has no de jure empire.
  • I tried creating Frisia, making it my primary title, and destroying the kingdom of Holmgardr. This allowed me to confirm that I control 100% of its 53 de jure counties. The option to re-create it is greyed out, even though I have enough gold and piety.
Does anyone understand what's going on here with either kingdom?