De jure ERE

[NicklasK]

There are a few things that I don't understand about the De jure territory of the ERE.

Armenia? Should that really be De jure ERE? If it should be it defenately shouldn't extend as far east as it does.

Wallachia? When did the ERE ever hold that region? I can't seem to find any info about that anywhere...

The Duchy of Cherson? Why isn't that a De jure part? It would only make sense taken into consideration how long they have been controlling it.

 

[Spartanlemur]

Wallachia was part of the Roman Empire in 200AD. I'll agree it's a bit of a stretch though.

 

[unmerged(398932)]

Norway, Denmark and Sweden also weren't part of a non-existent Scandinavian Empire, De Jure or otherwise (Kalmar Union doesn't count). I don't think the De Jure map in its current form is supposed to be historically accurate, it's more there to encourage kingdoms and empires to occupy certain areas before others, keeping borders relatively aesthetically pleasing. Parts of Armenia definitely did belong to the Roman Empire, though I'm not sure if the empire ever stretched as far east during the Byzantine period as the Armenian kingdom does in the game.

 

[NicklasK]

Wallachia was part of the Roman Empire in 200AD. I'll agree it's a bit of a stretch though.

Aye, but so was Italy, france, spain and many other regions

I'd suggest 1025 to be a good referance for the de jure territories.
http://stonetelling.com/issue1-sep2010/map.jpg

EDIT:

Norway, Denmark and Sweden also weren't part of a non-existent Scandinavian Empire, De Jure or otherwise (Kalmar Union doesn't count). I don't think the De Jure map in its current form is supposed to be historically accurate, it's more there to encourage kingdoms and empires to occupy certain areas before others, keeping borders relatively aesthetically pleasing. Parts of Armenia definitely did belong to the Roman Empire, though I'm not sure if the empire ever stretched as far east during the Byzantine period as the Armenian kingdom does in the game.

From what I can see it never did...

I think that the de jure map should be more accuate, especially considering the importance of it when it comes to Crown Authority and Elective monarchy.

And yeah... I'm no big fan of the scandinavian empire (or any other fictional empire), but that topic has already been discussed to death on these forums

As for the Kalmar union, I wouldn't even think of considering that an empire, more three kingdoms ruled by one king.

 

[icon41gimp]

Remember that an entire kingdom has to be de jure to the empire, you can't just pick and choose duchies or counties.

 

[NicklasK]

Of Course.. This is the Kingdom of Armenia in year 1000

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped....svg/1000px-Bagratuni_Armenia_1000-en.svg.png

If you ask me the de jure borders of Armenia and anatolia should be altered.

 

[icedt729]

What kingdom should the Azeri duchies go to once they're taken out of Armenia? I agree that they don't really fit there, but I don't think they should go to Persia or Georgia instead.

 

[unmerged(398932)]

Could just have an Azerbaijan kingdom, like the other speculative kingdoms.

 

[Ruwaard]

There are a few things that I don't understand about the De jure territory of the ERE.

Armenia? Should that really be De jure ERE? If it should be it defenately shouldn't extend as far east as it does.

Wallachia? When did the ERE ever hold that region? I can't seem to find any info about that anywhere...

The Duchy of Cherson? Why isn't that a De jure part? It would only make sense taken into consideration how long they have been controlling it.

Furthermore IMHO at later starting dates Croatia and Sicily should eventually stop being a De jure territory of the ERE too.

 

[NicklasK]

Indeed, but the same goes for many other nations... most of the de jure kingdoms shouldn't even excist to begin with.

 

[Isaios]

It's not actually nescessary to have a province START as de Jure anything. Rather in line with how it doesn't have to belong to an Empire, it doesn't have to belong to a Kingdom. You could even have it not belong to a Duchy, but that'd introduce a whole lot of problems.

 

[Mods]

It's not actually nescessary to have a province START as de Jure anything. Rather in line with how it doesn't have to belong to an Empire, it doesn't have to belong to a Kingdom. You could even have it not belong to a Duchy, but that'd introduce a whole lot of problems.

Indeed, and isn't this what the jure spreading was implemented for in the first place? Instead we start with a whole lot of 'de jure' titles that don't make sense at that time

 

[Emperor Basil]

It's not actually nescessary to have a province START as de Jure anything. Rather in line with how it doesn't have to belong to an Empire, it doesn't have to belong to a Kingdom. You could even have it not belong to a Duchy, but that'd introduce a whole lot of problems.

If so then it would also be better if the de jure shift was quicker. 100 years in the game is a long wait and frequently interupted by rebellion.

 

[Isaios]

Indeed, and isn't this what the jure spreading was implemented for in the first place? Instead we start with a whole lot of 'de jure' titles that don't make sense at that time

That's how I saw it, yes. I loved creating one of the titular titles and then holding on 'till I got de Jure turf.

If so then it would also be better if the de jure shift was quicker. 100 years in the game is a long wait and frequently interupted by rebellion.

That might be true anyway though. It's a full quarter of the game if you play from 1066, not to mention when you go from later on. Maybe link it to one or more of the techs. Or have province culture/religion play a part. That'd be nice. (And, I think, discussion in some detail here before.)

 

[NoMoreSanity]

I just don't get why Wallachia is de jure ERE. If the logic is 'The Actual Roman Empire once held it' we might as well make all of the Roman Empire de jure ERE.

Oh wait, the Imperial Reconquest CB already basically did that. Well crud.

 

[Sleight of Hand]

There are a few things that I don't understand about the De jure territory of the ERE.

Armenia? Should that really be De jure ERE? If it should be it defenately shouldn't extend as far east as it does.

Wallachia? When did the ERE ever hold that region? I can't seem to find any info about that anywhere...

The Duchy of Cherson? Why isn't that a De jure part? It would only make sense taken into consideration how long they have been controlling it.

I've raised all of your questions here.

 

[Federalist girl]

Yeah, it would be nice if somehow the history files could also implement de jure drift -- the de jure status of the map (not just the ERE) in late starts is really, really bizarre.

And the ERE de jure should be anything the ERE had not lost 100 years before 1066, projecting the drift mechanic backwards, essentially.