De Jure Empires - Assimilation

[ChewChewShoe]

I am currently playing as the Roman Empire (I started out as the Byzantines and reunited the Roman Empire) and I've conquered huge areas in the world.
For example, I control all of the De Jure empire of Arabia, and the kingdom of Mesopotamia of the Persian Empire.
I am currently assimilating the de jure kingdom of Italy into my de jure Empire etc, however, I am not doing the same with regions that are part of another de Jure empire, even though neither the Persian Empire nor the Arabian Empire exist.
A friend of mine said that I need to control all de jure Duchies and Kingdoms within the empire, however, in the case of Arabia I already do that (well, my vassals) but it still doesn't get assimilated.

The fact that I will soon have assimilated the kingdom of Mali into the Roman Empire but not for example Egypt or Mauretania is kind of weird, if you see where I'm geting with that.

Why is that? And how, if possible, can I start assimilating territory of a non-existent de Jure empire into my empire?

 

[Varvs]

In my game for some strange reason kingdoms which are created are not drifting. I had to destroy the king titels and then they all start drifting into my empire ... maybe you have the same problem ?

 

[Lessing]

You do NOT want kingdoms to drift into your empire. If you hold the HRE, and the king of Italy is your vassal, he is cool about it. If Italy drifts into the HRE, he will get a -20 toward you because now he desires the HRE.

 

[ChewChewShoe]

That tends to be the case if you're a king since the two kingdoms have different laws (for example if you're the king of England and Wales, and England is your primary title the de-jure kingdom of Wales will not be assimilated since it exists), but when you're an emperor the de-jure kingdoms usually get assimilated, several kingdoms that are existing in my game (Italy, Georgia, Alania etc) and are under my control are being assimilated into my empire. I'm not entirely sure whether you're correct or not in the sense that destroying the kingdoms in the de jure empire of Arabia etc would work for me, but it seems quite weird and illogical to me, if that is the case. There is no Arabian Empire, I am an Emperor and I control all of the de jure Arabian Empire, should the kingdoms really have any effect?

 

[ChewChewShoe]

You do NOT want kingdoms to drift into your empire. If you hold the HRE, and the king of Italy is your vassal, he is cool about it. If Italy drifts into the HRE, he will get a -20 toward you because now he desires the HRE.

I don't worry all too much about that, I tend to grant the kingdoms to members of my dynasty and all of my vassals love me, and I would most probably beat them anyway.

 

[Nostalgium]

You do NOT want kingdoms to drift into your empire. If you hold the HRE, and the king of Italy is your vassal, he is cool about it. If Italy drifts into the HRE, he will get a -20 toward you because now he desires the HRE.

I don't really get what you're trying to say here. You shouldn't incur the penalty for "Desires [higher title held by liege]" if you only hold one title of that rank.

 

[ChewChewShoe]

I don't really get what you're trying to say here. You shouldn't incur the penalty for "Desires [higher title held by liege]" if you only hold one title of that rank.

Yeah, I haven't gotten any penatly for that, and I only hold one imperial title.

 

[Lessing]

The point of gaining an empire is to gain the next!

 

[unmerged(494787)]

Yeah. Kingdoms that are not de jure part of an empire will drift into an empire (ex Italy into HRE) but if they're de jure part of an empire - even if that empire isn't created, if the kingdom title is created they won't drift in (ex Denmark into HRE). Amusingly, you can get the duchies to drift out into a Titular Title, which will then drift into your Empire (ex Cyprus into K_Cyprus, then K_Cyprus into, oh, the HRE. Or the ERE. Doesn't matter). Kinda weird seeing Perm drift into E_Golden_Horde though, or Khwarazim into E_Ilkhanate

 

[barny]

You do NOT want kingdoms to drift into your empire. If you hold the HRE, and the king of Italy is your vassal, he is cool about it. If Italy drifts into the HRE, he will get a -20 toward you because now he desires the HRE.

Even if it is your primary title?

 

[Alyiakal]

As has been mentioned, your primary title will not cause any "desires X" penalties.

The point of gaining an empire is to gain the next!

I have actually never heard this advice from anyone. Care to elaborate? From what I understand, the point of an empire is so you can push king-level claims and have them be your vassal.

 

[barny]

As has been mentioned, your primary title will not cause any "desires X" penalties.



I have actually never heard this advice from anyone. Care to elaborate? From what I understand, the point of an empire is so you can push king-level claims and have them be your vassal.

I never gave my king titles away, than again I never pressed a claim for a kingdom.

And offering vassalization doesn't work for kings, does it? Every time I tried that I got a "I'm king! ------" modifier.

 

[yezhanquan]

I never gave my king titles away, than again I never pressed a claim for a kingdom.

And offering vassalization doesn't work for kings, does it? Every time I tried that I got a "I'm king! ------" modifier.

I give them away when I get tired of dealing with pesky dukes. I basically tell one guy, "Here is your new kingdom. Have fun."

As for bringing kings into the realm, you will need force. Being emperor only makes it easier to ask dukes to join in peacefully. With kings, you get a similar "small difference in rank" with dukes.

 

[unmerged(494787)]

Yeah, you can't vassalize an independent King. However, if you push a kinsman's kingdom claim, you will vassalize the resulting new king when the war is won. You can also hand out king-level titles without losing the land, if you need to. That said, I have 3 Empire titles in one game (HRE, RE, Titular Hispania). I get so much prestige

 

[yezhanquan]

Yeah, you can't vassalize an independent King. However, if you push a kinsman's kingdom claim, you will vassalize the resulting new king when the war is won. You can also hand out king-level titles without losing the land, if you need to. That said, I have 3 Empire titles in one game (HRE, RE, Titular Hispania). I get so much prestige

On this note, I have the de jure lands for Britannia and Mali Empire. How do I form a titular empire?

 

[unmerged(494787)]

Mali doesn't have an empire. Hispania went titular when I hit "Restore the Roman Empire" as the ruler of both the ERE and Hispania - I'm not sure why, but all De Jure Hispania lands instantly drifted into the RE. As for forming Britannia, you'll need to be of the right culture, but it'll still have De Jure lands when you form it.

 

[Lorehead]

Yeah, you can't vassalize an independent King.

You can if the kingdom is part of your de jure empire. A claimant you put on a royal throne will also join your empire if that kingdom is part of your de jure empire. In a test game, a vassal king of Mesopotamia got neither the modifier for desiring my empire nor a penalty for my not being his de jure liege.

 

[unmerged(494787)]

You can't vassalize an independent king - ever. You can create vassal kings, and push claims to create vassal kings, but an already-independent king won't join even if you're his de jure liege. You have to gain control of his territory the hard way. I suggest releasing a de jure vassal king via submitting to an independence faction to test this yourself, if you don't believe me. In vanilla CK2, the "I'm a king!" modifier will prevent it.

 

[Lorehead]

You can't vassalize an independent king - ever.

Tested, and you’re correct. I jumped to the wrong conclusion when I saw that the King of Croatia was not giving me the “I am a king!” modifier.

There is one semi-exception: capture the Hagia Sophia and hand it off to an Orthodox bishop, and he will step down in favor of the Ecumenical Patriarch. If you are an emperor, the latter will be your vassal, even though the game considers him a “king.” Simply give him the Hagia Sophia, however, and he will stay independent and refuse to vassalize to you.

 

[unmerged(494787)]

Yeah, the orthodox handoffs to religious heads can be a bit odd like that. As I recall Nestorians have a similar issue with Antioch and the Patriarch of the East.