De Jure Drift a Question

[Hootieleece]

In my current game(It's God to WIN a Saxon AAR,Shameless plug)I created The Empire of Britannia title and Destroyed the King of Scotland title.I still have the King of England title.

My Question is Why aren't The Duchies of Scotland and Ireland De Jure drifting into Kingdom of England?

Is it because I created the Empire?

 

[Mackus]

Yes. If you are Emperor, your duchies wont drift into your kingdoms.

 

[Heartsbane]

You would have been further ahead destroying the Kingdom titles and waiting for them to drift into England. They will eventually become creatable titular titles after the de jure drift is finished and then you can create Britannia without worries.

 

[AlknicTeos]

I had some days ago the same question ^^.

Duchies only drift in kingdoms. So a) never become an empire is one solution.
The other one is, that a duke in england controls another duchy in scotland or ireland completely.
The point of view is important - not as emperor of britannia, but as king of england. Who is then your vassal ?

Anyway .. cause the vassal fight against it is pretty unsafe that the dukes and counts remains in the same constellation for 100y


edit :
kingdoms drift in empires - for example - you are HRE and have conquered all of de jure kingdom of france - then the kingdom of france will be de jure a part of the HRE ( after 100y ) - still the duchies in france belong to the kingdom of france, as long as the duchies haven't drifted

 

[Hootieleece]

At AlknicTeos:I didn't see thread.....otherwise would have read it.

So far all the Dukes in Scotland are still Scottish,I destroyed the title to give them less reason to hate me.In Ireland I am creating Saxon Dukes for the most part.

I also watch out for Potential SuperDukes:Knives come out........

So basically creating the Empire doesn't really help the vassal situation at all unless you want 2 large vassals.(plus how ever many Dukes in England and Wales)

 

[Heartsbane]

At AlknicTeos:I didn't see thread.....otherwise would have read it.

So far all the Dukes in Scotland are still Scottish,I destroyed the title to give them less reason to hate me.In Ireland I am creating Saxon Dukes for the most part.

I also watch out for Potential SuperDukes:Knives come out........

So basically creating the Empire doesn't really help the vassal situation at all unless you want 2 large vassals.(plus how ever many Dukes in England and Wales)

Well you get a pretty sweet hat as Emperor lol. I don't think it is really worth it to have King tier vassals in the British Isles so there isn't much point to creating the Empire title for Britannia imo.

 

[AlknicTeos]

At AlknicTeos:I didn't see thread.....otherwise would have read it.

http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum...es-it-work&p=14634662&highlight=#post14634662

actually it's pretty simple, except the 100y ....

 

[Hootieleece]

Well you get a pretty sweet hat as Emperor lol. I don't think it is really worth it to have King tier vassals in the British Isles so there isn't much point to creating the Empire title for Britannia imo.

That's exactly what I'm thinking after doing it.

Generally,I'm a 1 King-level title kind of Guy.This is First time I've created a Fictitious Empire.......and probably only time.

 

[Jamey]

That's exactly what I'm thinking after doing it.

Generally,I'm a 1 King-level title kind of Guy.This is First time I've created a Fictitious Empire.......and probably only time.

It really depends on how much you want to expand. After you reach a certain size, it's nice to have several King tier vassals who deal with the hundreds of Dukes so that you don't have to. Keeping de jure kingdoms for that point is nice, as the vassal kings will squabble over their de jure territory instead of causing you bigger problems.

 

[Hootieleece]

I'm not really happy being Super Huge(350+ holdings)I have been HRE Emperor several times with 500+holdings(AI Holy warred the moslems to death before I was elected),but I just don't enjoy the game at that point.......

 

[Isaios]

Yes. If you are Emperor, your duchies wont drift into your kingdoms.

Only true if you mean personal Demesne.

There are 29 Counties in de Jure England, 8 in Wales, 13 in Ireland and 17 in Scotland. Giving each English County to one Count, then granting that Count one County in Ireland or Scotland (presuming no Gavelkind), that'll leave you with only 9 foreign Counties to take in hand. Giving those to particularily loyal Counts would work. Then just adding Duchies in England, you'd spread it so that the absolutely strongest English Duke would still only hold 8 Counties in total. Presuming you keep Somerset and Bedford yourself (I know I would ) there are 61 Counties spread over 8 Dukes, none larger than 8, none smaller than 6.

This leaves you with relatively strong vassals, but so few that you could easily manage them sufficient for your purposes. As long as you only use English Duchies, and as long as they're landed in England, the Irish/Scottish/Welsh Duchies will drift to England. Just make sure to keep an eye on Connacht, Leinster, Cornwall and Meath since no matter what you do, you'll end with two competing Dukes able to create the title.

 

[Hootieleece]

@Isaios:Your Idea has merit but ALL Duchy's of the Three Kingdoms have been created.(Except Kent and Bedford,which I destroyed and kept)All Dukes only have their De Jure vassals and none has more than 2 personal holdings.

Problem:Most of them are Godwins......with or without Claims to Kingdom of England.

I have only kept one Duchy titleuke of Albany,I inherited it from my mother(Queen of Scotland) and which i inherited before........England.

 

[Isaios]

All right. Well, to ensure drift, all you need is for the Counties and Duchies to be counted as vassals of the k_england title before the e_britiannia title. So, revoking the Duchies and transferring them to existing English Dukes'd work. Or, and this is highly gamey, you can give your heir the Kingdom of England, transfer all remaining vassals to him. Then when you die, his vassals should still be vassals first of England, second of Brittannia. This would require that the Kingdom titles were not formed of course.

 

[Hootieleece]

I could do the Highly Gamey tactic,(Since only Kingdom of England is formed.I destroyed Kingdom of Scotland. AFTER creating Empire) but I won't.I'll just accept the status quo.

 

[unmerged(600321)]

Having an empire makes things easier when you grow beyond a certain size. For example, in one of my unfinished games as Francia, I have around 1200 holdings under me. Having everything under one Empire makes it easier to manage. I still avoid making "Kings" other than to expand (e.g. count title to a pretender of Poland, then conquer Poland and make him King, then later make him revoke his title by making him revolt/etc). King titles to vassals can make dealing with Dukes easier as 100s of Dukes are a pain to deal with, but King tier vassals are dangerous especially if they revolt when you are away.


Finally, it is useful to make King tier titles when you expand outside of your de jure area. Dukes are less likely to rebel if you are the de jure King of the Kingdom and also their emperor. Similarly, Kings are less likely to rebel if their Kingdom is in your de jure empire. Making these Kingdoms is often worth the opinion hit of not handing out the Kingdom (-20 to every duke that wants it) because there is a hidden rebellion modifier (15% I believe) when you are not the de jure liege of your vassal.


As far as de jure titles go, as long as the duchies are in the Kingdom, they are less likely to rebel. As long as the Kingdom is in the Empire, the Kings are less likely to rebel. There is no need to make the Dukes part of your de jure Empire as long as you are their King as well and the duchy is in your de jure Kingdom. Don't hand out the Kingdom to any vassal till the Kingdom is in your de jure empire (or if you play like me, don't hand out King titles other than on very rare situations).