De Hautevilles- Can Anyone Stop the Norman Invasion?

[hjarg]

Bah, i hate when update becomes last post of the previous page. Anyways, to make your life easier, there's the linkie:
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum...n-Invasion&p=15628326&viewfull=1#post15628326


This is it, the end of the flood. Official reason- i have run out of wars i can declare without breaking the truce.
Also, i've celebrated the end of flood with upgrading to 1.10.

DensleyBlair - if there would be Cathar Crusades, then at current state... well, i'd say 20 years or so and the map is fully purple. And that is pessimistic opinion. As for revolts- it is the first time vassal has raised rebellion on i don't remember how long ago. I have plenty of normal revolts. You know, gather army and crush the bastards, very little in way of rebellious vassals.

SirkTheMonkey - as soon as the truce with Münster ends, i can claim their last province, end the rebellion and make Sayer Kaiser. Will happen in 1321. King of Ireland is still happily there. And as for greek dukes- about 1/3rd are Normans, another patch have Norman children waiting for the throne and some still dare to remain greek. Within 100 years, all will be assimilated.

Ricardo Rolo- not yet, the "Empire" is still there. Soon, soon!
But basically, when the happy couple sires a son, i can kill the mother and even though the son is not in my court, i can declare war? Or when i kill mother, the son will automatically return to my court? Anyways, cunning plan!

Jarren - well, i imagine the human factor has something to do with it- me playing Normans, you playing Byzantium changes the outcome Anyways, we both at least have really purple maps!

 

[Jarren]

The sons of Robert anyways seem to just fight each other in my games. It's very rare I see a kingdom of Sicily from the AI

 

[DensleyBlair]

Very nicely done. The Empire's looking good now - all it needs is some tidying up in Germany and the Baltic and it'll be a lovely expanse of purple. You've surpassed the Romans of old, in any case. Who would've thought the most celebrated Roman ruler would be a Norman woman?

Looking forward to seeing what comes after the Flood.

 

[SirkTheMonkey]

I hope nothing has gone wrong with the upgrade. Isn't there some famous old saying about someone running out of foes to conquer and crying about it? Sounds a little like you in this situation, except surely there is someone in the East who you could go and beat up. Maybe assassinate someone so that you can declare on their truceless heir?

 

[Jarren]

'And when Alexander saw the breadth of his realm he wept, for there were no more worlds to conquer.'
Hans - Die Hard

 

[BogMod]

'And when Alexander saw the breadth of his realm he wept, for there were no more worlds to conquer.'
Hans - Die Hard

Shouldn't it be... "And when Alexander saw the breadth of his realm he wept, because the game wasn't using the Europe Universalis rules."

 

[grumphie]

youre going for a WC at this rate

quickly ship over your forces to asia and go push that frontier!

 

[Ricardo Rolo]

Ricardo Rolo- (...)
But basically, when the happy couple sires a son, i can kill the mother and even though the son is not in my court, i can declare war? Or when i kill mother, the son will automatically return to my court? Anyways, cunning plan!

Well, you do need to be able to push the claim, so the safe bet is to keep the heir grandson in your court ( just tutor him or have someone in your court do it if the parents aren't in the court as well ), but that should not be a issue if Isaakios is still alive at that point ( the girl will come to your court if she isn't a title holder ). The real advantages of the method I proposed above simply letting your grandson to inherit the Taurica throne are being somewhat faster ( one less generation ) and to not need to make your grandson a king before inheriting Taurica ( otherwise Taurica will keep independent ) besides being more .. bizantine, if you know what I mean . BTW I strongly suggest that, if you go via my plan, that you assasin Isaakios ASAP, for you grandson to inherit his other titles, just to secure his position.

BTW Sayer should weep when thinking on Alexander, because Alexander , as a Pagan, would not have enforced 10 year truces unlike Cristhians And can't you do a visit to the southern Khan or somewhere in RL Ethiopia, just to cut out some time between truces ? In last resort, you can go full manure explosions to expedite the thing

P.S Now that I'm thinking on the Taurica issue again, you can make the thing even faster ( and without losing a son to a less than ideal marriage ) if you can discover a Hauteville brother or cousin ( or something with a claim on Taurica, as long as it is a Hauteville ) of Isaakios II willing to come to your court. You can push even a weak claim against a female ruler, so if you can invite a Hauteville with even the more nebulous claim to the Taurica throne and assasinate Isaakios II, you can imediately push it's claim to Taurica and he will become your vassal ( because it would be a familiar ). The, if needed, you could dispose of him as well

 

[hjarg]

Killing Kaisers...

Conquest of Mali

King Rayner of Mali, they called him now. Baron Rayner of Tamdoult, they called him before. Ruler in the province of Thassaret, a province between the edge of Norman holdings and great unknown. His dynasty named after the same county. Rayner of Tassaret, who about three years ago took about 200 of his men and marched south. Since then, no-one had heard of him, he was presumed dead. Arrangements were made by Doge of Marrakech to marry the sole child of Rayner, daughter Rosalind, to his son- gaining some lands and a noble title in the process.

Then, in November 1318, something happened. An army was approaching lands of Marrakesh. Not a huge army, a little less then 10 000 soldiers. Most were black soldiers, half-naked, carrying huge spears. Few whites, mail-clad, leading them. As Norman forces stormed to meet the unknown enemy, they found of that Rayner rode in front of them. Rayner had grinned, pointed at his army and had said: “Newest Normans”

Rayner told a strange tale. He had marched south, to the unknown lands, hoping for some loot and wealth. But when he arrived, the journey had taken his toll. About 50 of his soldiers had died, others were exhausted. And instead of recovering, he was thrust into a civil war, and somehow both sides had thought killing the white devils would bring them victory. Still, with some courage, lot of luck, good fighting skills and even very timely local solar eclipse, he had turned the tides. He had captured both leaders of the civil war, beheaded them and marched to Timbuktu, with both heads on a pike. On his way, Rayner made allies and in the end, he was crowned as the King. An unbelievable tale, but hey, Rayner had treasure and a whole army to prove it!

Rayner sailed to Palermo, where Sayer took him in and showered him with gifts. Sayer was even nice enough to compare Rayner’s achievements with that of a Robert Guiscard de Hauteville, who also carved his own lands from nothing. Sayer crowned Rayner as a King of Mali, thus rising de Tassaret family amongst the greatest of the realm. Rayner was first non-Hauteville to achieve that. Rayner’s only child, Rosalind, was also betrothed to bastard son of Sayer, in order to further strengthen the ties between the two families.

Mali, the freshest addon to Norman lands

Overall, Sayer had gained a vassal kingdom without any expense.

Death of a Kaiser

In December 1318, Sayer declared war on Pope Evaristus II. The Papacy had two holdings deep inside Norman territory, one in Auvergne, France. Another in Poland. Sayer had decided to take Auvergne away. In February 1319, it was done. Pope was down to one holdings.

Meanwhile, in South, Muslims raised their heads. In January 1319, Shia Caliph Dodai I, ruler of Mecca and Medina, declared Jihad on Normans, calling for the whole Muslim world to liberation of Baghdad. Soon, Mesopotamia was surrounded by Muslim troops. But also, even before that, Sayer had ordered three of his armies from Europe to Near East, plus nearby were the Kingdoms of Jerusalem, Syria and Armenia who were able to field over 20 000 soldiers each.

Meanwhile, in a desperate attempt to save what is left of his pathetic Empire, Kaiser Gebhard III had accepted the Cathar faith. When the news of it reached Sayer in the end of February 1319, he reacted quickly. He ordered Gebhard to be killed, gave his envoys a load of gold and sent them to Imperial Court. There, the Normans had a stroke of luck- they managed to bribe Bruno von Nordheim, a distant cousin of the Kaiser. An acting spymaster of the Holy Roman Empire. And when your spymaster decides to kill you, you will die.

Old Kaiser, his spymaster and co-conspirator, the new Kaiser and mother of both- daughter of Mongol Khagan and sister of two

In April 1319, Kaiser Gebhard III died at the age of 17. Seems like the wine did not agree with the poor Kaiser. Dietpold I, his brother, took the throne. In May, Normans declared war on him- claiming the half of the Duchy of Holstein. In addition, Normans declared war on County of Metz, grabbing the last piece of former Duchy of Upper Burgundy. Holstein was sieged by two Norman main armies still left in Europe, while to Metz, Sayer called soldiers of Germany, Burgundy and Lotharingia. By May, 40 000 soldiers gathered at the base of a caste and with quick assaults, the province fell. Holstein took till August, when the new Kaiser gave up.

Thus died the Kaiser

Eastern Trouble

The Jihad was on and Muslim armies were approaching Baghdad. But also, two first Norman armies had reached Middle East and had started marching towards Baghdad. The years in Europe had made Normans overconfident though. Yes, the Muslim army in Euphrates was destroyed, but outside Baghdad, in a place called Iskandariya, two armies met. Almost equally sized, but Normans were attacking the well-defended positions. And couldn’t break through. For the first time in quite a long time, Normans faced defeat on the battlefield.

Two battles in the Mesopotamia

Now, this really made Sayer angry. “Jihad for Mesopotamia?” he said. “I’ll give you more to Jihad then!” So, basically, to make things more interesting, he declared war on Khagan Badai of Ilkhanate, claiming Duchy of Tigris, a 5-province Duchy in Mesopotamia. In August 1319, Jihad for Mesopotamia just became more interesting.

 

[hjarg]

First, Mali came as a total surprise. I've just finished the hard work of editing new uninhabited provinces to their proper rulers, loaded the game, cheered and checked- whoa, Mali begins to populate itself! A miracle, i say!
Second, it's the first Kaiser i've killed! Soo proud! And third, next time will be Jihad and the war with Mongols. Interesting times!

Jarren - gameplay is always a bit different when the strongest son of Robert is me, not AI. Plus, i've started it back in 1.01, when there was no factions or nothing, so less rebellions and stuff anyways. Was easier to keep the realm together back then.

DensleyBlair - yes, i think i've much expanded beyond the borders of the original Roman Empire and yes, that makes Adelise the best Ceasar ever. Good point!

SirkTheMonkey- as you can see, nothing did go wrong with upgrade. Instead, i found a kingdom!

SirkTheMonkey, Jarren, BogMod - it should be rahter 'And when Sayer saw the breadth of his realm he wept, for he didn't want to lost over 10 000 prestige and get Truce Breaker trait for five years'

grumphie - actually, it seems so! Heh, it will be my first WC ever *wipes tear*

Ricardo Rolo - you are soo much more devious then me. I just prefer the usual approach of come here, conquer all and don't bother with details. But basically, still wait for them to get married, get a son, kill a girl, kill Isaakios and the realm will be mine without warfare?
As for option 2- checked. Only Hautevilles with claims are old crones not married matrilineally, so no go there unfortunately. Anyways, i'm officially appointing you as Hauteville spymaster! Keep the good thoughts coming!

 

[Nikolai]

First non Hauteville king! He deserved it, but now other nobles might think it's possible to become king instead of the Hauteville king. After all, there is precedence!

 

[SirkTheMonkey]

A miracle indeed.
Nice to see some action in the East. Hopefully you can balkanise them a bit and get some more land grabs wars going.

 

[Ricardo Rolo]

Ricardo Rolo - you are soo much more devious then me. I just prefer the usual approach of come here, conquer all and don't bother with details. But basically, still wait for them to get married, get a son, kill a girl, kill Isaakios and the realm will be mine without warfare?
As for option 2- checked. Only Hautevilles with claims are old crones not married matrilineally, so no go there unfortunately. Anyways, i'm officially appointing you as Hauteville spymaster! Keep the good thoughts coming!

IF the lad(gal) is already a king when Isaakios dies ( say, king of Cyprus or another titular ( aka inconsequent ) title ), yes, you can do that. Otherwise (s)he will get the Taurica kingdom , but it will keep independent. The only real alternative is to make the same steps until the girl's son is the heir and make a claim war on Isaakios ( that you can rationalize easily by pointing out that Isaakios, besides not Cathar, is a shame for the Hauteville name due to his traits )

On the old Hauteville crones with claims on Taurica, if you can invite them anyway, you can push their claims and properly dispose of them later ( besides they will most likely brew trouble, so it will not be exactly a dificult thing to get a real reason to "remove" them ). Besides, it will not be the end of the world if you get another non-Hauteville king

Speaking of non-Hauteville kings, my experience wth Kings of Mali allows me to give you a advice: be wary Their lands are populous and rich enough, they are far enough, and ( the worst part ), the atrittion you eat to go there as a enemy is ridiculous. Mali tends to become a hotbed of rebels even if you put family there and you have to eat a lot of losses to quell any rebelion there ...

P.S The game is really wanting to push Alexander talks, right ? Just look at the name of the site the Normans lost that battle ...

 

[Jape]

First non Hauteville king! He deserved it, but now other nobles might think it's possible to become king instead of the Hauteville king. After all, there is precedence!

A dangerous one my dear fellow.

 

[DensleyBlair]

even very timely local solar eclipse

Am I right in thinking that's a Tintin reference?

Very nice update - the Malian tale was certainly very interesting. It would seem you are missing some of the African provinces, though.

I also enjoyed the irony of Iskandriya - thanks for pointing that out Ricardo

Looking forward to the next one.

 

[hjarg]

Jihad and Holy War for Mesopotamia

The Beginning

So, in August 1319, Normans were defending themselves against a Jihad in Mesopotamia. The first battles had already been fought, Normans even got their noses a bit bloodied. Then, to make a life more interesting, Sayer declared war on Mongol Horde, Ilkhanate, with intention of getting another part of Mesopotamia, the Duchy of Tigris.

First things first- Sayer raised the host of Kingdom of Jerusalem. Total 30 000 Normans, an army was split into two and both hosts were sent to provinces of Tigris to start a siege. One took Al Nadjaf, while another marched to Al Nasiryah.

Meanwhile, the battles begun. Two Norman armies combined their strength and in September, beat 6000-man strong Muslim army. That was just a warm-up though. In October, the first true battle of the war begun when two combined Norman armies attacked Muslim army of similar size. To be honest, it was also one of the most costly battles, where 9000 Normans died. It also meant that Norman armies were taking a beating. Since they had arrived in Mesopotamia, Normans had lost more then half of their armies to the deserts and Muslims.

Norman losses were horrendous

Meanwhile, 14 000 Muslims crossed the border in Euphrates and soon, assaulted the province. Samarra fell in October 1319. Sayer raised another host of nearby vassals, this time of Syria. 24 000 soldiers, Norman and Greek ones, marched through the deserts and attacked the enemy. Battle of Samarra was fought in December 1320. Normans drove the Muslims back and recaptured the city.

More Troops

Also by the end of 1319, third Norman army had reached Holy Land, landing in Acre. It was the biggest of them all, totalling 17 000 seasoned Normans. From there, they did a quick march towards Mesopotamia. First task of the army was to reinforce armies of Jerusalem sieging the provinces of Tigris and with two quick assaults, first holdings fell to Norman lands. Jerusalem levies were left to continue the siege, but the Normans marched on. First two holdings of Tigris had fallen. 11 000 of 17 000 Normans were in battle condition.

Normans were doing good, but the war was far from over. 20 000 soldiers from Ilkhanate were approaching Baghdad. This time though, the Norman numbers in Mesopotamia had reached 65 000, totally outnumbering anything the enemy could send against them. Of course, some were busy there, some elsewhere and there was no province in Mesopotamia that could sustain that number of soldiers in one province.

The beginning of the year begun quietly, but by March 1320, it was certain that Mongols are coming. With an army of 20 000 soldiers, they marched towards Baghdad, where two Norman armies were. Now, they had regained some of their strength, reaching 16 000 men. Mongols, certain of their victory, marched on. As soon as they hit the province though, the third Norman army started a quick march towards the enemy and before Mongols realized, they were between anvil and a hammer. In April 1320, the armies met outside Latifya, and as a result, most of the Mongols died. 15 000 Mongols versus 3000 Normans dead and the Normans were fighting most of the battle being outnumbered- that showed the Mongols that Norman power is never to be underestimated.

Mongols defeated

Meanwhile, Syrian army engaged Muslims in Euphrates and in battle of Samarra (May 1320), yet another Muslim army was beaten back over the borders. The biggest of Norman army had followed the retreating Mongol army and also in May, they engaged the Mongols again. The Mongols were bloodied, but were not totally destroyed. Rest of Sayer’s armies kicked Muslims out of Kirkuk.

New Duchy

In July, 13 000 Muslims attacked Normans sieging Al-Nadjaf. The Normans were quickly reinforced by one Sayer’s army while two other armies attacked the enemy in in Al-Amarah. Troops of Syria chased a small Muslim army of 5000 soldiers who had attacked from the North. By September, the hostilities had ceased.

Final Battles

Khagan Badai for the Ilkhanate made a peace offering in the beginning of November 1320. So far, Jihad for Mesopotamia had resulted in Normans gaining yet another Duchy. In September, Sayer’s elder son, Ferant, had become of age. He was a fine man, though he was not the Emperor material. Sayer granted him the Duchy of Tigris and promised that soon, he will be the King of Mesopotamia.

The new Duke, firstborn of Sayer

The Jihad still continued, but Muslims were running out of troops. In November, the last biggest Muslim army was defeated outside Baghdad. A bit over 10 000 soldiers were killed. It was then Sayer decided that the war could be fought with the three Norman armies and sent levies of Jerusalem and Syria home.

Holy Roman Empire

Meanwhile, in Europe, the truce between Duke Philipp of Meissen and Sayer had expired. Philipp was the one still making civil war in Holy Roman Empire, and now his last province was about to fall into Norman hands. The days of the Holy Roman Empire were numbered...

Sayer declared the war on Philipp in November 1320. In December, Philipp crawled back to Kaiser Dietpold, begging for mercy and forgiveness. He was thrown into jail instead. With that, the civil war ended. And... when the civil war ended, Kaiser Dietpold had 8 provinces left in Germany.

In 1st January 1321, Sayer celebrated the new year by usurping the title of Kaiser of the Holy Roman Empire. What was left of the former Empire, splintered, with Dietpold taking the biggest piece. But the Holy Roman Empire was no more...

This is the end of centuries of hostilities...

 

[hjarg]

Mongos defeated yet again, backbone of Jihad broken and i've made more steps into Mesopotamia. But somehow i imagine that the last sceenshot will get all the attention. Anyways, next chapter will be devoted to the fall of HRE, so i'm not ending my great nemesis with just a footnote at the end of another war. Just had to show off!

Nikolai - I think of it more like grandfather of the first Hauteville King of Mali. After all, i've managed the betrothal of one of Sayer's sons to Rayner's only child.

SirkTheMonkey -it seems like the Mongols don't fall that easily yet. But soon, Ilkhanate and Golden Horde are the only enemies left, so i have to think of ways to make them fall.

Ricardo Rolo - Ok, i'll wait and see what happens. The potential targets have to get married first though and get some children! As for crones- matrilineal marriages. Don't want another non-Hauteville heir...
As for Mali- thanks for the warning. I'll try to keep them happy, bribed and totally non-rebellious! But then again, non-Hauteville king gets +30 relations because of the elective while Hauteville king gets -5. So, if the heir isn't a total moron (and with elective, there isn't much chance of that), i think they'll be fine!
And you're right about Iskandryah! Though there is still some conquering to do before the weeping can begin..

Jape - Well, you can think of it that way: when you conquer the kingdom, Hautevilles gladly accept the new ruler. As long as they bring their own kingdom with them!

DensleyBlair - Nope, i actually though of H. Rider Haggard's "King Solomon's Mines", but it seems like solar eclipse had saved more then a few chaps!
And i think i got all African ones- at least, the game doesn't show any more empty provinces.

 

[Ricardo Rolo]

No, you don't tell a ambitions firstborn that he will not be a emperor That can only lead to trouble

Anyway, one more duchy and one more empire ( not that it will be there for long... you don't need a copycat of the Roman empire when you are the Roman emperor ). That was a good haul for a update

Anyway, on Mali: I just warned you because the King of mali is a ambitious guy, thus making likely that his sons will also be. Ambitious is a flat -50 is some situations and you add other malus, like distance or short reign ... in other words, you should ensure that the mali kings are not ambitious ( even better if they are content ). The current one is covered for as long as Sayer and himself live, but you need to think ahead Oh and DensleyBlair is right , if the pic of the Kingdom of Mali you posted in the last uptade was right, since it misses 4 provinces. See the below spoiler to check how it should be :

Spoiler

 

[SirkTheMonkey]

Those were some pretty decent fights you had there. It's a shame your other enemies cannot put on as good of a show. I look forward to seeing what pathetic dregs the HRE has been reduced to after you took their top-level title.

 

[grumphie]

ypu lost... to.... muslims....

former norman kings will be turning in their graves. and cheering. for the hated empire(can you imagine that all tharted over capua?) is no more. that also mean you can now holy war a LOT of newly independent dukes - good uck with that. dont forget to go conquer the northernmost piece of the world ASAP so you can say your empire stretches the entire known world north and south.