DDay

[Hoyte]

Could Britain do d day without Us support

 

[Zaku]

In the game: Yes.
IRL: No.

 

[Shade205]

Not unless Germany had a rediculas failure in another theater and couldn't field an army.

The UK and Ger air force can go blow for blow being just about equal in strength each having some pros and cons

But just like at sea where Germany operates at a disadvantage as the UK already has a navy built up and experience with it and a larger one, Germany's ground forces can easily repel a British landing on mainland Europe.

Land up in Scandanavian or down in Africa and you can fight and probably win as its not a question of quality but quantity. Germany can just bring to much to the fight.

 

[GeneralPetrov]

Possibly, but it would almost certainly result in extreme losses and would probably would be delayed for a bit so the commonwealth can build up a bit more. I also think they wouldn't advance as much into Europe and the Soviets might end up taking all of Germany. In game I imagine it'll be the same.

However these are just guesses and it really depends on the scenario. Is the US supporting the UK at all, or are they completely neutral?

 

[Duke Von Hannover]

Assuming the eastern front is going as it did historically at the same time, yes it could be done without America it would have only been one or two beaches and the race to Berlin wouldn't have been anywhere near close. Most people don't realise most of the manpower, and equipment at D-day was British/Commonwealth

What WAS NOT possible without America was doing operation Husky AND D-Day, Britain alone would have had to pick one.

 

[Shade205]

It does require a lot of questions to be answered actually before it itself can be answered.

Did Stalingrad happen?

Is the fighting in the east going well for Germany? Or against it?

How successful has Japan done?

What year is it?

Generally speaking though I would avoid main land Europe in a 1 on 1 battle with Germany. Fight them with France or fight them after the Soviets bloody them for you

 

[Denkt]

In the game: Yes.

Probably not always

 

[GeneralPetrov]

Probably not always

This would depend mostly on the players ability... Or inability.

 

[scroggin]

One of the requirements for Dday was air superiority this couldnt have been achieved in 1944 without the USA's P51 aircraft roaming the skies of europe.

Without the USA would Britain have been at war with Japan?

What level of lend-lease would america have supplied if they weren't at war? Less because they didnt feel as commited to the cause. Or more because they weren't arming their own troops.

I think there could have been a norway invasion in 1944. But the french d-day would have to wait till the Russians were knocking on Berlin. Or they might not have even had a d-day they could have liberated france through Italy.

Does anyone know what percentage of allied troops in Europe were American? I think it would have been around 40% in june 1944 passing 50% early in 1945.

 

[poxx]

In the hands of a skilled British player yes you could probably pull of a British only D-Day

 

[Wyrm]

Eventually D-day would have been doable by the Commonwealth alone. Perhaps in 1945 or later when the USSR had beaten down the German army further they would not have been able to resist an invasion of france and would probably have let go of a lot of france just in order to defend the german mainland and hope that the UK would be willing to negotiate a truce in exchange for France.

 

[mattyh1995]

I imagine it'd be possible in the game, you'd just need to play from the start with that in mind I think and maybe do the landing in 1945. But then you'd have to sacrifice your navy and potentially lose control of the Med to Italy or not be able to counter the Luftwaffe or Kreigsmarine's submarines.

Whatever the case I know I'll be trying it, I love fighting alone in HoI III.

 

[The_Meme_Man]

Of course Britain could win D-Day without help from the US. Just fodder enough Australians, Indians, and Canadians, and then some nice Bovington armour will swooce in for the win.

 

[BBBD316]

Would the Brits in this situation be better off getting passage through into the Black Sea and landing behind the Germans and linking up with the Soviets?

I know the supply lines would be horribly long, but if the UK wants to stop a Soviet hegemon on the continent would it have to race with them, not against them?

 

[jamesd]

Does anyone know what percentage of allied troops in Europe were American? I think it would have been around 40% in june 1944 passing 50% early in 1945.

I just finished reading a book about the allied campaign in NW Europe, but gave it back to its owner. There were 5 US armies and 3 British/Canadian/French etc in theatre by war's end. The Americans had 61 divisions in theatre by then and I'm not 100% on the numbers, but I'm pretty sure the other nations had less than 30, meaning the final proportion would have been around 70% US.

 

[Hoyte]

the reason I said that is that in game you can get usa into axis so will that frig up the ai

 

[Axe99]

Could Britain do d day without Us support

All of below (aside from the aircraft production reference) is clearly speculation . With that in mind:

As Shade mentioned, a lot of questions this question raises. Is Japan even in the war if the US isn't? If so, then the UK can free up a lot of extra troops. However, without the US in the war, the UK would probably go through the Balkans - Churchill was as keen as mustard to go down this path, and without the US pushing for France, I'd bet good money that's where the UK would have started. I'd also think an invasion in the Balkans or Greece would start fairly well initially, as the defences would be less concentrated, although it would also be harder to pull off.

Another important question - is the USSR in the war? If not, the answer is probably going to be no, not in a million years. Commonwealth vs Germany/Italy is a long-term stalemate until someone gets the bomb (the UK had the lead in 1940/41, but without the US who knows who'd have come first).

If the UK and Commonwealth are the only significant players against Germany, Italy and Japan, then I'd say they should knock over Japan first (something they can achieve by themselves, although if they made as many mistakes as they did IRL, I'd wager it would take them until 1950 or so). If Japan is in the war, the Commonwealth need to knock them out one way or another to have the resources to land in Europe anywhere aside from Norway and Sicily.

Edit: Not sure what was going through my head when I wrote the above paragraph - if all Germany and Italy have to do is attack the UK, then it's highly unlikely they'd have the capacity to knock out Japan (and they'd probably be stretched to do anything but lose eventually, once the RAF and RN have been worn down enough - likely with Japan eating away at the periphery - alas poor Australia and New Zealand). Sorry about that, not sure what I was thinking - perhaps in my head I still had the USSR tying down Germany/Italy (although I clearly wrote it that they weren't in the picture). OK - back to original post now, I think the rest isn't quite as crazy .

Original post continues: If Japan is out of the picture, and the Soviets are in the game, then I'd say they could do it, but they would be better off 'nibbling away' at the periphery, taking Norway (still difficult, the Germans put 300,000 or so troops there later in the war in case of this), Crete, Greece and the like.

Not unless Germany had a rediculas failure in another theater and couldn't field an army.

The UK and Ger air force can go blow for blow being just about equal in strength each having some pros and cons

The UK out-produced Germany on planes from 1940 onwards, building larger planes (on-average) as well (and if the Soviets are in the war, the Luftwaffe is split to boot). It's all very "what if", but if we're talking 1944 historically but with the US watching on with popcorn, I'd argue the RAF would still be able to achieve air superiority over the landing area pretty comfortably.

 

[Sharp163]

Define what you mean by "US Support".

Is lend-lease included in that? Because without the money and materiel we gave them, the British empire very well could've collapsed on its own weight, or fallen to the Germans...

Without lend lease, Britain would have a hard time opening a front in France, and without American troops, it could've failed altogether.

I hope this helps

 

[Scutatus]

To answer original question: yes - if USSR is fighting (actually, if USSR is fighting, D-Day may not even be required!). NO, if there is no eastern front.

 

[Sharp163]

To answer original question: yes - if USSR is fighting (actually, if USSR is fighting, D-Day may not even be required!). NO, if there is no eastern front.

D-Day wasn't "required", per se, in the first place. The war would have been won on all fronts by the Soviet Union, regardless of D-Day or operation downfall.

The only reason we opened a second front was because the USSR was scraping the barrel with manpower, and also we knew that we wouldn't be best buddies with them for long after the war and didn't want a communist-dominated Europe.

If there is no eastern front (either because the Germans won it, never engaged in it, or allied with the soviets) then they've most likely nearly won the war at this point.