DD8: Trade-offs

  • Hearts of Iron IV Survey

    Help us make HoI IV better by sharing your experiences in this 5 minute survey


  • Crusader Kings III Available Now!

    The realm rejoices as Paradox Interactive announces the launch of Crusader Kings III, the latest entry in the publisher’s grand strategy role-playing game franchise. Advisors may now jockey for positions of influence and adversaries should save their schemes for another day, because on this day Crusader Kings III can be purchased on Steam, the Paradox Store, and other major online retailers.


    Real Strategy Requires Cunning

Birken

Mastermind
4 Badges
Sep 28, 2009
877
3.829
  • March of the Eagles
  • Pirates of Black Cove
  • 500k Club
  • Paradox Order
Hi Everyone!

So we decided to reveal some of the patch material last week and I think we can do that every other week from now on (until announcement obviously, after that you’ll get info on features every week up until release).

This week I’d like to ask your opinion on something related to design instead. As you know, we sometimes want to add soft barriers to our games. The demesne limit is one such barrier, ie you can hold more counties than it, but they’ll be less efficient so it’s often suboptimal to do so. I think this is a pretty ok way of letting players play the game like they want to, while telling you that the intention is to not go past this line (or not far past it at least). For you who played Sengoku, you might remember vassals asking for titles and getting angry if you didn’t hand them out which was a quick solution to a similar problem. In the Sengoku case, players who didn’t follow the rules usually got irritated by the constant spam of vassals asking for titles (and if you were way past the limit, you’d get it all the time). The solution was obviously not a good one. What I personally prefer when possible, is to give the player’s that follow the rules some kind of bonus instead.

So the question I’d like to ask you is:

What kind of bonus would you like to see as a trade off for limiting yourself in the game? The limit could be anything here, demesne limit is already taken care of so think of other stuff.

Related to that question:
If you could add optional limits that would give you bonuses, what type of limits would you like to see?
This could be anything from having all your titles and vassals as within the dejure of your primary title, or always making sure to be married to a daughter of the Byzantine emperor.


dd8.jpg


A small spoiler from an interface Work-In-Progress.
 
  • 62
  • 25
  • 19
Reactions:

bontanel

Major
5 Badges
Mar 16, 2013
548
631
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Victoria 2
  • Stellaris Sign-up
Here I was after the last dev diary thinking this dev diary series was going to be about actual dev diaries and game features. Back to scraping the bottom of the barrel, eh?
 
  • 226
  • 48
  • 3
Reactions:

Zhetone

New and Improved
73 Badges
Mar 18, 2010
4.121
6.798
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • 500k Club
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury Pre-order
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Crusader Kings Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Semper Fi
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Field Marshal
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • For the Motherland
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Divine Wind
Here I was after the last dev diary thinking this dev diary series was going to be about actual dev diaries and game features. Back to scraping the bottom of the barrel, eh?
There clearly isn't DLC coming out anytime soon and so the choice is either have them post stuff about the development process in general or get nothing it seems. Besides, we'll get things every two weeks. There's no reason to be greedy.
 
  • 85
  • 9
  • 2
Reactions:

nogluten

᛫ᛁᚾᚹᛟᚲᛖᚱ᛫ᛟᚠ᛫ᚦᛟᚢᚷᚺᛏᛊ᛫
92 Badges
Apr 18, 2013
219
449
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Tyranny - Bastards Wound
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Surviving Mars
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings III Referal
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Cities: Skylines - Campus
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Teleglitch: Die More Edition
  • Victoria 2
  • War of the Roses
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Humble Paradox Bundle
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
I'd like to see a bonus along the lines of getting control over changing culture in your counties when fuedal. Also another limit could be that you shouldn't culture change your vassals to yours if you've conquered them and they're not your culture. A bonus for such a limit would be that you would get an opinion bonus for leaving them the same culture ruling over their cultural lands.
 
  • 73
Reactions:

Lamahorse

Functioning Alcoholic
72 Badges
Jun 2, 2010
1.444
1.452
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Semper Fi
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Prison Architect
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Field Marshal
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Victoria 2
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
An actual High King of Ireland mechanic!
 
  • 32
  • 4
Reactions:

Aoki4444

Well, I'm
62 Badges
Jun 23, 2013
150
232
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Semper Fi
  • Sengoku
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Field Marshal
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Steel Division: Normand 44 - Second Wave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Prison Architect
  • Victoria 2
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Magicka: Wizard Wars Founder Wizard
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
Sooo.. No DLC around Christmas? 5 weeks/ 5 DDs until Christmass now, too few for anouncement + DLC features DDs...
 
  • 11
  • 2
  • 1
Reactions:

Asiak

Lt. General
81 Badges
Nov 27, 2014
1.267
2.691
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Field Marshal
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • BATTLETECH
  • Surviving Mars
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Deluxe edition
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Prison Architect
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • BATTLETECH - Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Empire of Sin
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Victoria 2
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
How about when I defeat an adventurer I get 500 - 1000 prestige. Random people with claims just popping up somewhere, ignoring all of the rules, pulling 12k+ troops out of their ass, only to be defeated and hey you get nothing. Yea thats a fun and balanced mechanic.
 
  • 112
  • 6
Reactions:

flogi

Captain
55 Badges
Apr 17, 2010
415
192
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Darkest Hour
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Magicka: Wizard Wars Founder Wizard
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • 500k Club
  • Victoria 2
I think there should be some kind of oppinion bous if you manage your realm 'good' in terms of balancing the power.
Right now there is an oppinion bonus for ruling a long time. Maybe there should be a growing oppinion boost if you maintain the power balance within your realm.
If you don't want to do that maybe it would be a good idea to give an oppinion bonus for every demense point that is not used. E.g. you can hold 6 demenses but only have 5, so that gives you +10 oppinion of your vassals.
Like this you could also benefit from not stacking up your demense, thus keeping your vassals happy.

Another idea could be that if your retinue army grows too big, vassals start to get threatened by your sheer power. That also could give a small opinion penalty, also like having mercenaries in peace time (supressing factions) and so on. (The mercenary thing could work similar to the raised levy modifier).
Though, if you do any of this, I'd ask you to make those features completely moddable, as rebalancing might be crucial for some kind of mods.

Cheers
flogi
 
  • 47
  • 6
  • 1
Reactions:

Greybeard0815

Apathetic Agnostic
45 Badges
Apr 1, 2015
434
675
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Stellaris
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
One thing I always disliked was how de-jure drifting worked. If I'm the King of Germany and conquer the provinces of the Kingdom of Pomerania, the duchies would nicely drift into my Kingdom. But if I take another Kingdom level title or even become the HRE this drifting would stop. It would be great if I had some sort of control over that and could influence the drifting process directly.

And I also fully agree with @nogluten.
 
  • 76
Reactions:

WeissRaben

Gian Galeazzo Visconti #1 Fanboy.
80 Badges
Sep 29, 2008
6.833
4.573
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Magicka
  • March of the Eagles
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Rome Gold
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Semper Fi
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Victoria 2
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • 500k Club
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Pride of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
The problem is that, unless the bonus is really huge, it's going to end up like Development in EU4 - completely overshadowed by conquest, conquest, conquest. It's just too easy, too profitable, and too rewarding, eating everything in sight: vassals are happy yes-men puppets most of the time, you can control enclaves on the other side of the continent with no problem, getting absolute authority is trivial, and the Pope cares not for anything you do, if you are Catholic (or a Catholic heresy).

Now, I don't want to be the elitist scum, but the game is just too easy, especially at higher levels. It's all about feudalism; the bigger you get, the harder the game should become, because if on one hand you are safe from outer threats, inner threats do nothing but inflate. Consider the great countries of this period: all of them collapsed, or had their authority undermined by their vassals, again and again and again. Only one, France, got out of the Renaissance in good shape, and it did so through a lot of time spent with irrelevant kings and feuding "vassals". The HRE? Diffused. The ERE? Destroyed, and feudalized before that. Andalusia and the Caliphate? Exploded. The Mongol Empire? Divided.

There's no real way around making great empires hard to play - but then again, why should there be one? If I open EU4 as a total newbie and load up Albania or Navarra, I'm going to get spanked hard - it's not like the game has to bend sideways to make it easy. Hard situations should be hard to solve, and a newbie that has inherited the ERE might consider leaving it to a cousin or uncle, instead of demanding they win even though they're out of their depth.
 
  • 122
  • 2
Reactions:

Loderingo

First Lieutenant
22 Badges
Mar 18, 2012
220
253
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Victoria 2
  • 500k Club
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
At the moment there is very little incentive not to blob. It would be good if there was some sort of peace dividend such as an economic boost, which gradually increased the longer you were at peace. Also perhaps some sort of boost for having good relations with your neighbours.

On a similar note, I think learning needs a boost as there doesn't seem to be as much incentive to go down this path as some of the others.
 
  • 96
Reactions:

TheDungen

Field Marshal
77 Badges
Jan 31, 2015
11.885
7.505
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Magicka: Wizard Wars Founder Wizard
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Humble Paradox Bundle
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • War of the Roses
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Age of Wonders
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Teleglitch: Die More Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
Hi Everyone!

So we decided to reveal some of the patch material last week and I think we can do that every other week from now on (until announcement obviously, after that you’ll get info on features every week up until release).

This week I’d like to ask your opinion on something related to design instead. As you know, we sometimes want to add soft barriers to our games. The demesne limit is one such barrier, ie you can hold more counties than it, but they’ll be less efficient so it’s often suboptimal to do so. I think this is a pretty ok way of letting players play the game like they want to, while telling you that the intention is to not go past this line (or not far past it at least). For you who played Sengoku, you might remember vassals asking for titles and getting angry if you didn’t hand them out which was a quick solution to a similar problem. In the Sengoku case, players who didn’t follow the rules usually got irritated by the constant spam of vassals asking for titles (and if you were way past the limit, you’d get it all the time). The solution was obviously not a good one. What I personally prefer when possible, is to give the player’s that follow the rules some kind of bonus instead.

So the question I’d like to ask you is:

What kind of bonus would you like to see as a trade off for limiting yourself in the game? The limit could be anything here, demesne limit is already taken care of so think of other stuff.

Related to that question:
If you could add optional limits that would give you bonuses, what type of limits would you like to see?
This could be anything from having all your titles and vassals as within the dejure of your primary title, or always making sure to be married to a daughter of the Byzantine emperor.


View attachment 143099

A small spoiler from an interface Work-In-Progress.
I disagree holding a realm together in ck2 is war to easy anyway without even more bonuses being handed out. The penatly curve for holding more land yourself (and more importantly to have a certain number of vassals) could be a bit less binary but I think penatlies are the way to go. It should start cutting in to your efficiency at lower levels but take longer to become quite as harsh as it is as you pass the threshhold today. Perphaps pronvince/vassal efficiency scores which drops the more demesene/vassals you have compared to some current tech level. With three colour codes green (no penatly) yellow orange and red.

Expecting a player to limit themselves is stupid instead make holding a larger realm together actually require work.
 
Last edited:
  • 21
  • 2
Reactions:

DeathBurst

Captain
46 Badges
Nov 30, 2013
380
189
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Magicka
  • Leviathan: Warships
  • Knights of Pen and Paper +1 Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Dungeonland
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Cities in Motion 2
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Prison Architect
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Crusader Kings Complete
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • War of the Roses
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • The Showdown Effect
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
@Birken : you already mentioned being in De Jure limits, but a soft limit on the total size of your realm would be great. If it is done well, it could single-handedly solve the recurrent issue of blob being too stable, while still letting the people who want to do a Wolrd Conquest able to do so if they dedicate efforts to it.

This limit could depend on Diplomacy *and* Stewardship (obviously, since Diplo is for Vassal limit, Steward for Demesne limit) + Prestige. Now, should it depend on personal or dynasty prestige, or both? I'm not sure, but I think that it should slowly increase as time passes, so Dynasty Prestige should be of importance somewhere.
For the "bonus-if-you-respect" instead of "malus-if-you-refuses": some bonus opinion if you are above the limit, especially when you want to conquer new lands to reach the limit? Maybe a longer grace period when vassals don't have opinion penalties when you use their levies?


The second point that comes back often in the Suggestion subforum is a more flexible way to declare war and get land/titles in the end of a war, akin to the one in EU4, but I think someone from Paradox officially said there wouldn't be such kind of negotiation engine in CK2 ever?

Finally, this is the perfect occasion to remind you that there IS a suggestion subforum. Personally, I keep hope that you do read it, even if you very rarely answer to the threads there, but it's becoming harder and harder :)
 
  • 21
  • 2
Reactions:

Asiak

Lt. General
81 Badges
Nov 27, 2014
1.267
2.691
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Field Marshal
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • BATTLETECH
  • Surviving Mars
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Deluxe edition
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Prison Architect
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • BATTLETECH - Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Empire of Sin
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Victoria 2
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
Maybe if you have primogeniture and no direct son only brothers or no one, you should get "No successor"- 5 opinion with vassals, and flip it to "Has successor" +5 opinion when he does. Maaaaaaybe a + or - 1& revolt risk. Back in the day if you were primogeniture and you had only brothers or no successor it cause jitters at the least.
 
  • 17
  • 3
Reactions:

OliverDeBra

Private
78 Badges
Apr 24, 2013
17
29
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Majesty 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Semper Fi
  • Sengoku
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Cities in Motion
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Warlock 2: The Exiled
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • For the Motherland
  • Cities in Motion 2
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Divine Wind
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Cities: Skylines
High Priest and Caliph should be changed from Duke level to King level when moral authority become 95%.
Plz add menu for change color of country.
 
  • 16
  • 9
  • 2
Reactions:

King Anund

King of Navarra
80 Badges
Oct 5, 2012
865
1.299
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury Pre-order
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Crusader Kings Complete
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • War of the Vikings
  • Knights of Honor
  • King Arthur II
  • The Kings Crusade
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
Make vassals more eager to join independence factions if you are a big empire (High number of holdings in your realm) and having vassals that are not of your culture or culture group hate you more the more bigger your empire is.
Also the Pope should be more involved in politics: declaring wars to have more land in Italy and being more eager to excommunicate people, specially if they have Free investiture or are in a war with him or have lands that he wants for himself.
 
  • 48
  • 2
Reactions:

schepper

Private
50 Badges
Jan 9, 2014
22
45
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Victoria 2
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Magicka: Wizard Wars Founder Wizard
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
Very pleased to see that you guys are very aware of this issue! Some ideas I had off the top of my head:

Rather than comparing the number of men on each side of a siege to see whether you are allowed to "progress" in sieging, you could construct a siege score based on more things. Currently it feels kind of frustrating to have 5 less men than the besieged, making you unable to siege at all, despite having far superior units.

Another is the possibility to add a dowry (money or even titles) to a marriage or betrothal proposal.
 
  • 41
Reactions:

Rubidium

Field Marshal
49 Badges
Jul 7, 2011
5.124
5.906
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • BATTLETECH: Flashpoint
  • Stellaris
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • BATTLETECH
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Tyranny - Bastards Wound
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Imperator: Rome
  • BATTLETECH: Season pass
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • BATTLETECH: Heavy Metal
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall - Revelations
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Victoria 2
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Tyranny - Tales from the Tiers
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
Make vassals more eager to join independence factions if you are a big empire (High number of holdings in your realm) and having vassals that are not of your culture or culture group hate you more the more bigger your empire is.
Also the Pope should be more involved in politics: declaring wars to have more land in Italy and being more eager to excommunicate people, specially if they have Free investiture or are in a war with him or have lands that he wants for himself.
I'd actually argue against the latter; different culture vassals should be little more difficult than same culture; this isn't the age of nationalism. Different religion vassals should obviously hate you, but it should be perfectly reasonable to hold a multicultural empire. Maybe this will avoid the inevitable disappearance of the Dutch and other minor nationalities.

I do think there should be scaling opinion penalties with blobbing too big. Not so much that it makes a big blob unreasonable (and it should obviously be very moddable, otherwise e.g. AGOT mod with its giant Westeros would be basically unplayable), but something. Perhaps vassals within your de jure duchy get a larger bonus, de jure kingdom a smaller, de jure empire nothing, and then non de jure get a malus that decays with the de jure change timer?

Regardless, factions need to be able to conduct normal diplomacy (including some ability to call in friends from within the realm to join the revolt). You can give a penalty to prestige/acceptance to represent that they aren't really a king, but there needs to be some way to intervene. As it is, not only are factions too weak to matter in blobbing, but they also cause issues with e.g. marriage diplomacy (my son is betrothed to your daughter, but can't marry until you finish that war to lower crown authority that has been raging for a decade).
 
  • 40
Reactions: