DD#16 disgusting

[Mackus]

Didn't say reading was less good. Just that reading about atrocities or watching pictures of them does not affect me nearly as much as hearing sounds of them does. Dunno why.

How does "Reading is okay, listening is not." be it in context or out of it, means book are less powerful medium?

"I'm making the exact point that you, somehow, managed to contradict while making it."
Hint: If someone contradicts the point you think he makes in the very sentence he makes it, he probably did not want to make that point.

 

[Metz]

I think this image speaks for the whole PI forum including the developers.

 

[Aries666]

Someone just had to go and be all disgusted didn't they?

This may not be an explicitly mature game, but neither is it a game aimed at children. A lot of the people who play the game are eager for historical accuracy, as brutal as it may be. If you just want your version of "fun", then I suggest you either don't use the dlc or go back to whatever neutral and timid experience you had previously. And let's just say this once and for all, for a lot of people the experience of enjoying something that is more mature or historically accurate is fun.

There will always be at least one person outraged at anything that has and ever will happen.

 

[Aries666]

I'm sorry.

I'm sorry for marrying a Karling heir.
I'm sorry for shtupping my Karling husband's father
I'm sorry for killing my Karling husband's older brother.
I'm sorry for shtupping my Karling husband's younger brother.
I'm sorry for marrying off that Karling sister off to a decadent Persian potentate.

I'm sorry. Really, I am.

Signed,

A very shameless non-Karling redhaired hussy.

No one ever expressed regret in killing a Karling and meant it

 

[StarSword]

You seriously have no issue with a rape mod? Given that Paradox banned mods for Stellaris that took out the non-European names from the human name list I thought that they might take an opinion on rape.

You didn't pay attention to the whole story. They did that for blatant real-world racism on the part of the modder, not for adding in-universe RP options that make sense in context. Is it horrible IRL according to present-day morals? Yes. Did it happen all over the place anyway? You're damn straight it did.

Consider also that we already have rape in the game in the form of the concubinage system which lets characters force captured women to bear heirs.

 

[Dr Gonzo]

You didn't pay attention to the whole story. They did that for blatant real-world racism on the part of the modder, not for adding in-universe RP options that make sense in context. Is it horrible IRL according to present-day morals? Yes. Did it happen all over the place anyway? You're damn straight it did.

Consider also that we already have rape in the game in the form of the concubinage system which lets characters force captured women to bear heirs.

Yes I am aware of the implicit rape involved in concubinage. Does this mean that I should be happy with the idea of more explicit sexual violence being added to the game? I think not. Is the Steam Workshop the right to place to publish such adult content? I don't think so. Bear in mind that this game is advertised as appropriate for teens and containing 'mild violence and sexual themes'. Personally I would prefer to see the game continue with a Teen rating rather than become adults only.

Is there a historical precedent for rulers raping their captives on a systematic basis rather than randomly when women were taken as spoils off war? Nope. Was it common for high born women to be raped by equally high born captors? Again, no. Does it make sense for it to be added to the game without any downside/retribution for the rapist? No.

Finally, do we want to be a community where rape is seen as not a big deal? I would argue no. It seems others disagree, which is their right, but those of us who see this as an ugly trend have just as much right to make our voices heard.

 

[R'hllor]

Yes I am aware of the implicit rape involved in concubinage. Does this mean that I should be happy with the idea of more explicit sexual violence being added to the game? I think not. Is the Steam Workshop the right to place to publish such adult content? I don't think so. Bear in mind that this game is advertised as appropriate for teens and containing 'mild violence and sexual themes'. Personally I would prefer to see the game continue with a Teen rating rather than become adults only.

Is there a historical precedent for rulers raping their captives on a systematic basis rather than randomly when women were taken as spoils off war? Nope. Was it common for high born women to be raped by equally high born captors? Again, no. Does it make sense for it to be added to the game without any downside/retribution for the rapist? No.

Finally, do we want to be a community where rape is seen as not a big deal? I would argue no. It seems others disagree, which is their right, but those of us who see this as an ugly trend have just as much right to make our voices heard.

Mods don't have any influence on the rating. And unless the author included visual depictions of rape, I doubt that having some text explaining your terrible actions is forbidden.

For the second part I agree, and the mods I have seen include rape aren't very good at depicting all the consequenses. Though if someone really wanted to have a good rape mod, they could do it.

The last part I don't understand. Why would including a fictional depiction of rape make it any less of a big deal? Does including war and torture and murder in the game make any of those things 'not a big deal'?

 

[StarSword]

Yes I am aware of the implicit rape involved in concubinage. Does this mean that I should be happy with the idea of more explicit sexual violence being added to the game? I think not. Is the Steam Workshop the right to place to publish such adult content? I don't think so. Bear in mind that this game is advertised as appropriate for teens and containing 'mild violence and sexual themes'. Personally I would prefer to see the game continue with a Teen rating rather than become adults only.

Is there a historical precedent for rulers raping their captives on a systematic basis rather than randomly when women were taken as spoils off war? Nope. Was it common for high born women to be raped by equally high born captors? Again, no. Does it make sense for it to be added to the game without any downside/retribution for the rapist? No.

Finally, do we want to be a community where rape is seen as not a big deal? I would argue no. It seems others disagree, which is their right, but those of us who see this as an ugly trend have just as much right to make our voices heard.

So, you're fine with a tooltip that says you threw small children off a battlement so yours will inherit, but you draw the line at a tooltip that points out exactly how your Norse warlord managed to father a child on the Queen of England. Got it.

By the way? This isn't even remotely the worst thing I've ever seen done in a Teen-rated video game. Star Trek Online to this day has a mission for the Klingon Defense Force where you have to slaughter your way to the bridge of a disabled Federation cruiser, torture the captain to death for the access codes to the Sol system, then use the ship for "target practice", direct quote, with the surviving crew still aboard. All of which takes place on-screen with animated model characters, not described in text with an impressionistic painting. Sure, it tracks with canon Klingon behavior, but it doesn't make sense for non-Klingon characters nor is it any less of a bloody horrible thing to do IRL. The real kicker? It's not a mod, it's an official campaign mission.

But don't let me stop your righteous rage, it's really entertaining.

 

[Mox1]

Just to put it on the record, like you are doing, I am perfectly fine with an explicit rape mod being put on the Workshop. Hell, the a Game of Thrones mod already more or less has it; this just allows you to use it in vanilla, and make it have more of an impact.

The beauty of mods is that you can install the ones you like
The same thing goes for features in-game. You can use the DLC you like, as well as do the things within the vanilla game that you want to do. Nobody is forcing you to for example commit eugenics upon your house, etc.

...also, surely you realise that this meme is satirical? >~>

 

[Dr Gonzo]

...also, surely you realise that this meme is satirical? >~>

Yes. I think people are ascribing much more feeling to my argument here than is the case. I am not offended by any of your comments I just see acceptance of explicit rape as a legitimate game mechanic as being a step too far. I think adding this in a gratuitous way as is seen here should be beyond the pale within a community that attempts to be open and accepting. I'd hate to mention to people that I play CK2 and have them ask "Oh, is that the game with all the torture mods?". Likewise I don't think this is a reputation that Paradox would want for their game.

Anyway, I think I've made my point. I think rape is bad. If it were to be added I believe it should be done sensitively. I don't like the idea of rape/torture mods becoming more common on the Workshop.

 

[Ashantai]

There will always be at least one person outraged at anything that has and ever will happen.

This outrages me.

 

[Aries666]

This outrages me.

I am outraged at your outrage, what are we all outraged about again?

 

[Metallord]

We are talking About a disgusting time period after all so iTS About time death and decay violently spread lol.

Seriously PDX A good job on the realism ^^

 

[Urzhail64]

The short version: "it's just a GAME !"

 

[Legionary Guard]

I am outraged at your outrage, what are we all outraged about again?

I am outraged at your outrage toward my fellow Byzantium-flag's outrage. I don't know what we were outraged about, but I'm sure there was a perfectly valid reason.

 

[Zarok47]

Maybe next thing we'll have is rape simulations of underaged kids (I'm sure a lot of that happened in the Middle-Ages) with screams and pictures. As long as nobody gets hurt in reality and you can justify it as RP...

There is alot of your arguments with which i disagree but others have already adressed that more or less.

However, i like to point out this particulair bit as especially disagreeable for a couple of reasons.

1. Logical fallacy, namely the "slippery slope" argument, where the graphic depiction of torture might lead to graphic depiction of child rape and thus the former should not happen. Wrong all the more for the fact that depiction of child rape is actually illegal in alot of countries so this will never be included in the game.

2. Invoking these images in the first place: I find it contradicting and quite frankly, hypocritical that you invoke these images of child rape to support your argument about why graphic torture doesn't belong in ck2. Now you succesfully have everyone thinking about child rape while argueing how you don't want explicit torture in the game since you believe that can be harmfull ( see White Elephants for further explanation if needed).

As a side note, questioning the sanity of people who roleplay as evil characters also strikes me as wrong since it seems to imply everyone who disagree's with your notion about roleplaying as evil characters is likely to be insane. Not to mention the fact this accusation is unfounded.

 

[Mox1]

I'd hate to mention to people that I play CK2 and have them ask "Oh, is that the game with all the torture mods?". Likewise I don't think this is a reputation that Paradox would want for their game.

People who have heard of the game already think that due to all the incest, child-murdering and genociding capabilities of the vanilla game.
And Paradox probably doesn't care. They know who their audience is.

Anyway, I think I've made my point. I think rape is bad.

I'm certain nobody here thinks rape is good; I certainly don't. However as we've told you many times there's a disconnect between reality and fiction.