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    Real Strategy Requires Cunning
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Chogquir

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The Second Yak Wars.

"Keep moving men!, if we can beat those Yak lovers to those hills over yonder than the next engagement will be all the more easier" Commander Najib Aluid said to the men of the 17th Reserve. Standing on a rock overlooking while the column slowly marched past, with his warm green clock wafting gently in the winter breeze he knew he made an inspiring pose. Man I wish I had a painter or a sketch artist with me, my bronze helmet almost looks like gold in this light and those Himalama mountains in the back make for the perfect backdrop! Najib thought as he pulled his cloak a bit closer to him. "Now how do I get off this slippery rock?" He muttered to himself

"Uuurg, my legs are so tired! And I can't even feel my feet anymore in this snow, how far are these Tibetans anyway? We have been marching for weeks and I have not seen a single one in this godforsaken place" Abu complained to the backpack of the man in front of him but like the guys to his left and right, the backpack gave no answer. "And why is it already snowing here anyway? I remember back in the capital you could still sit outside this time of year and just relax and have a drink or something". "Now that you mentioned it packy" Abu said to the backpack, "When are we going to have a drink? I heard you get like a halve a pint of rum a day in the Army but I have yet to receive a drop". "SHUT-UP Abu!" came a angry voice from behind "It's your fault we are here in the first place! Besides that's the Navy you are thinking about, not that we have a Navy mind you." I know that" Abu threw back "but if we don't have a Navy, than who is drinking all the rum? You tell me that!" "Eeh" The voice replied "I don't know, but its still your vault we are here!"

"How was it your fault?" the man on Abus left, who did not know you you only try to get Abu to stop talking not the other way around, asked Abu. "Well, are you in for a story!" Abu replied with a smile, much to the dismay to everyone who could hear him. "It all started after we unloaded like a hundred hundred hundred books back in the Majestic Capital of fair Punjab, and we were about to eat some reheated Army Slob, when I got into a heated debate, that only the greatest University in all the land could inspire, with the mount of Packy over there" Abu said while pointing at the man in front of him."Can you guess what it was about?" "Geopolitics and religion in an ever changing world?" Man left of Abu replied semi-confidently? "Noooo" Abu said "Something far more important!" while vigorously waving his index finger around to clarify things. "About the proper way to prepare fresh Yak Meat!" "Packies mount thought you should boiled it, can you imagine that? Boil it he said, what a barbarian" "No the best way is to roast it with some fresh mountain herbs" "Than around midnight" Abu continued "when I almost won the argument, the Supreme Horse-Lord Commander, who was apparently listening, stepped forward pounded the table with his large fist and said: "Only one way to settle this!", and thus the Second Yak Wars and the invasion of Tibet had begun.
 
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Irsh Faq

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Well its certainly not intelligent but I decided to veer on the side of caution and avoid what could be considered a personal attack as this isnt the MP forums.

Why is it not intelligent? It's right. For example, KOM was talking about peace and cooperation with Tibet and Africa earlier this week, so (having noted over the past six or seven wars that Mongolia and Ethiopia have fought that an upsurge in Mongol talk of friendship often means an attack is coming) I assumed he was going to attack us and invade Tibet and decided to send armies to Tibet first thing this session.

Now, if KOM had actually been going to up and become friends with Tibet and Africa, then that would have been paranoid stupidity. Low-cost paranoid stupidity, perhaps, since I didn't really need those armies elsewhere, but incorrect all the same. But lo and behold; KOM attacks us and invades Tibet, and because of the correct assumption that a Mongol offer of friendship meant looming attack, Ethiopian troops arrived on the front lines in time to save the Tibetan army from destruction, (although not, given unexpected Bavarian involvement, to win the war). It's not paranoia if they really are out to get you.
 
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el_zilcho321

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East Asian Credit Crunch​

For many years in the 15th century and 16th century, Khmer was under the control of idiotic, badly programmed robots. These electronic fiends seemed to have the intent of driving Khmer into an economic crisis. Inflation was skyrocketing due to poor administration and many loans were taken to make up for the irrational spending on unneeded soldiers. The soldiers were too many to handle and meant the costs were very high. The same can be said for the navy which simply not needed. The government also spared no thought for trading with other people, or for building buildings which would help the common people as well as the government, providing income. War, also, did nothing good for the country. Three of Khmer's richest provinces were forcefully annexed by the war mongering Malaya.

Fortunately for the people of Khmer and their mortgages the evil robotic demons were removed and replaced with real human leaders. These leaders were clever and cunning. Their advisers helped reduce inflation. Despite these efforts many people were still feeling the effects of the past rulers. The monarchs of that time agreed with their advisers that it was crucial for Khmer to continue its economic growth but faster. To accomplish this, the government built many workshops throughout the country to make jobs for the many people in Khmer living in conditions of poverty or close to it. These were funded by a mysterious sum of money which appeared in Khmer's treasury ever 15 or so years. These funds have been crucial in keeping Khmer's growth fast and stable. Many government funded merchants were sent to foreign markets but were quickly expelled by the aggressive foreigners so they returned to Chiang Mia where they hold a monopoly, waiting for the right time to return to international markets.

Khmer was slowly getting back on its feet over the next few decades. The growth was obstructed slightly by unneeded loans which were taken because of overspending and poor efficiency and administration. At the beginning of the 17th century Khmer was now under the rule of bureaucratic presidents having been elected by Khmer's new Administrative Republic. These new rulers were even better than the Emperors of the 16th century. They started to build factories of a grand magnitude which bought in large sums of money to help the economy. They also began to build large shipyards, large areas for recruiting soldiers and many banks and buildings to help stimulate the economical growth. The government still, however, had to tackle the inflation which still lingered from the incompetent rulers of almost a century ago. Having talked about these hopeful actions, Khmer sometimes relies on foreign charity to keep its treasury from emptying.

To this day, in May 1617, the effects of the incompetent rulers remains in the form of inflation and poverty. It will be a long and hard road to recover from the abhorrent ruling of the country a long time ago. Despite efforts to return Khmer to an economically stable position, a scar will be forever left in the history of this little, fragile, South East Asian country.
 

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As a general rule, I talk peace and friendship at all times, because I am a peaceful and friendly sort of player. When, however, the people I am talking to do not respond in kind, but instead stonewall for days on end, ignore me, make no specific offers but talk vaguely of "reconsidering all my alliances", and generally act like people who intend to drag out negotiations so as to set me up for the sudden backstab - when that happens, then yes, I tend to reach some agreement with people who respond in a timely manner by making specific offers. You lot act as though the Khanate were a beggar come to your court and asking humbly for a bowl of soup, and you had all the time in the world to contemplate whether tomato soup or fish soup would be more appropriate, or perhaps a crust of bread would be better, but at any rate there is certainly no hurry in the matter and no need to tell the beggar anything but "we'll think it over". This is not the way to make a good impression on a sovereign power. vR is a ruthless powermonger, and I'm still desolate at having to give up western Siberia, but by dog! When he makes you an offer you can't refuse, you know what the offer damn well is, and it is made in a timely and specific manner! "10 provinces for a fifty-year NAP, or war", he says, and giving up ten provinces is not nice and fighting Russia is no joke either, but at least the choice is clear. With the African brotherhood it is "If you want the strength to resist Russia, you need to start changing the current alliance structure" and "I'm merely negotiating for myself here" and "it is an excellent time for you to carefully evaluate your relations with [your] other [neighbours]". Woolly phraseology suitable for a press release, not a serious negotiation by which it is intended that both sides should be better off in the end. Let me know when you are ready to offer some specific quid and suggest a pro quo. Until then I will keep my alliances with people whose diplomacy offers a clear mutual benefit.
 

Irsh Faq

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As a general rule, I talk peace and friendship at all times, because I am a peaceful and friendly sort of player.

I admire your online poker face even as I recognize that you have been involved in more Eurasian land wars than any other nation in the game, more often than not as an attacker. I also recognize that you have not, to my knowledge, ever offered Ethiopia any mutually beneficial deal, although I do admit that you have very often offered me deals that would greatly benefit you and either gain me nothing or actively hurt me.
 
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fasquardon

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Bavaria needed someone else willing to fight vR. Getting attacking continually will do that for you. The Mongols fit that description it seems.

Now, maybe it wasn't right in relation to you but he was looking for help. Can't say I blame him too much.

But the way Bavaria brought the Mongols on board alienated Africa, bringing a net loss.

Possibly if Bavaria had been less flagrantly pro-Mongol in its attempts to mediate a peace in India things might have worked out better for Fivoin. As it was, I was left aghast at the "compromise" he offered.

As a general rule, I talk peace and friendship at all times, because I am a peaceful and friendly sort of player. When, however, the people I am talking to do not respond in kind, but instead stonewall for days on end, ignore me, make no specific offers but talk vaguely of "reconsidering all my alliances", and generally act like people who intend to drag out negotiations so as to set me up for the sudden backstab - when that happens, then yes, I tend to reach some agreement with people who respond in a timely manner by making specific offers. You lot act as though the Khanate were a beggar come to your court and asking humbly for a bowl of soup, and you had all the time in the world to contemplate whether tomato soup or fish soup would be more appropriate, or perhaps a crust of bread would be better, but at any rate there is certainly no hurry in the matter and no need to tell the beggar anything but "we'll think it over". This is not the way to make a good impression on a sovereign power. vR is a ruthless powermonger, and I'm still desolate at having to give up western Siberia, but by dog! When he makes you an offer you can't refuse, you know what the offer damn well is, and it is made in a timely and specific manner! "10 provinces for a fifty-year NAP, or war", he says, and giving up ten provinces is not nice and fighting Russia is no joke either, but at least the choice is clear. With the African brotherhood it is "If you want the strength to resist Russia, you need to start changing the current alliance structure" and "I'm merely negotiating for myself here" and "it is an excellent time for you to carefully evaluate your relations with [your] other [neighbours]". Woolly phraseology suitable for a press release, not a serious negotiation by which it is intended that both sides should be better off in the end. Let me know when you are ready to offer some specific quid and suggest a pro quo. Until then I will keep my alliances with people whose diplomacy offers a clear mutual benefit.

You were the one coming to us with vague waffle about friendship and a long record of treachery. It would have been nice to have a serious discussion with you about concrete matters, but really you weren't giving the impression of being there seriously. So if we had revealed our knowledge and plans to you, it seemed pretty clear that you would simply use that against us when the eventual attack happened.

It's not that we see you as a beggar. It's that we know we can't trust you.

fasquardon
 

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You basically continuously advocated a policy of containment against Komgols who could never realistically harm you or your interests in India (he could try but it'ld be silly and doomed to failure), by allying with a rogue state who I've more or less want to annex so by allying and protecting tibet your securing King of Men a consistent ally and support in me. You have +1 ally to contain +1 nation but now have +1 threat from me, punjab, and whoever else regionally wishes to see tibet dead.

By allying tibet, you stuck your male reproductive organ into the hornets nest, if your stayed out of tibet KoM wouldve alone with his scheming and plotting in India, now you have more to deal with.

A miscalculation of the highest order.
 

Irsh Faq

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By allying tibet, you stuck your male reproductive organ into the hornets nest, if your stayed out of tibet KoM wouldve alone with his scheming and plotting in India, now you have more to deal with.

Oddly enough I thought that by agreeing to protect Tibet only from KOM and co, not from you in your quest to conquer the eastern areas, and in fact by striking a solemn deal in which Tibet gave you every province you asked for, we had secured in return your agreement to drop your enmity towards it for a very long time. Is this not the case?*

*it is the case.
 
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Sid Meier

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Oddly enough I thought that by agreeing to protect Tibet only from KOM and co, not from you in your quest to conquer the eastern areas, and in fact by striking a solemn deal in which Tibet gave you every province you asked for, we had secured in return your agreement to drop your enmity towards it for a very long time. Is this not the case?*

*it is the case.

50 years, expires in 4. *I* had offered 100, Tibet insisted on its rogue status.

I would consider 50 years ~4 session to be sufficiently long enough time.
 

Irsh Faq

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50 years, expires in 4. *I* had offered 100, Tibet insisted on its rogue status.

I would consider 50 years ~4 session to be sufficiently long enough time.

Why was I told by both you and your overlord Croatia that it was 100, then?
 

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Why was I told by both you and your overlord Croatia that it was 100, then?

IIRC, and I very well may not since this was during the "dark" communications period, it was supposed to be 100 and Tibet demanded that it only be 50.

If you think something different, do tell.
 

Irsh Faq

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Well I certainly hope not, but I admit that sounds plausible.
 
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fasquardon

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You basically continuously advocated a policy of containment against Komgols who could never realistically harm you or your interests in India (he could try but it'ld be silly and doomed to failure), by allying with a rogue state who I've more or less want to annex so by allying and protecting tibet your securing King of Men a consistent ally and support in me. You have +1 ally to contain +1 nation but now have +1 threat from me, punjab, and whoever else regionally wishes to see tibet dead.

By allying tibet, you stuck your male reproductive organ into the hornets nest, if your stayed out of tibet KoM wouldve alone with his scheming and plotting in India, now you have more to deal with.

A miscalculation of the highest order.

1) This is the first time I have heard of 50 years.

2) You and KoM have been allied since the start of the game. And there has never been even the slightest indication that either of you would reconsider your alignment.

3) I know very well that you're quite afraid of Africa, it's pretty clear that you've been planning to get us for a long time yet.

So if it weren't Tibet, it would be something else.

fasquardon
 

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1) This is the first time I have heard of 50 years.

2) You and KoM have been allied since the start of the game. And there has never been even the slightest indication that either of you would reconsider your alignment.

3) I know very well that you're quite afraid of Africa, it's pretty clear that you've been planning to get us for a long time yet.

So if it weren't Tibet, it would be something else.

fasquardon

This is hilarious, more proof of your mesheggunah. You've been consistently Anti-Qin the whole game, my sources say as much. And you're completely missing out on the nuance on what alignment means, allied/friends doesnt mean I would've been obligated to help him waste away troops and money in a theater I couldn't care less about. Supporting an ally in offensive wars when they don't match your interests is completely different from supporting them in defencive wars which the Indian adventures wouldn't have been remotely in my interests to help except in sofar it wasn't also in my interest to see you take bites out of King of Men for what was purely a local and contained conflict.

Afraid of Africa? Why would I be afraid of Africa.

First time hearing of 50 years? Well duh, its not like your the alliance diplomat or in a position of actual importance.

"If not for tibet it would be something else" <---- definition of being mesheggunah people! Come up with a logical scenario in which I would be attacking or directly/indirectly working against Africa if I owned tibet, c'mon, I have all day.

I should also point out however that you as a bloc are the first RotWers to strike against another RotW, this doesn't help build your case of victimization.
 
Last edited:

Irsh Faq

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I should also point out however that you as a bloc are the first RotWers to strike against another RotW, this doesn't help build your case of victimization.

Well in the spirit of moving away from treaty discussion and towards game history/reports:

I believe that the first was actually Malaya (or it may have been Gujarat, I don't remember if Gujarat cut down its Indian neighbors before Elcy killed Chile) Besides those two, Ceylon, Bengal, Punjab and Khmer also beat us to the punch as far as fighting other ROTWlrders go. :) So Ethiopia was a distant seventh, not first.

The rest of this discussion I shall take to the MP forum thread.
 
Last edited:

Sid Meier

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But that would contradict the narrative I'm trying to build! So I reject it! Never happened.

Edited above post to be more humorous.
 

King of Men

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fasquardon said:
[KoM has] a long record of treachery.
fasquardon said:
[Blayne] and KoM have been allied since the start of the game. And there has never been even the slightest indication that either of you would reconsider your alignment.

Other than my "long record of treachery", you mean? Which apparently is not long enough to be considered even a slight indication that I might backstab someone who is, you know, an actual ally. You seem to think that when I approach someone to negotiate, that indicates friendship. No. If negotiations are needed, that means our interests clash and a compromise is required, the sooner the better. If a compromise is not reached, there will be war. And so, when you dilly-dally with lackadaisical three-day turnarounds and no clear authority to negotiate... you get war. And accuse me of treachery because I tried peaceful means first!
 

Lord Strange

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It's simple. KoM is so treacherous that he has gone full circle and reached honesty.
 
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